Roy Halladay

[PrinceEatMeat]

http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/mlb_trade_talk/posts/71022-execs-milwaukees-a-serious-threat-in-halladay-race

 

New story from SI.com says we are now a serious candidate for Doc Halladay.

[snyttri]

The Brewers are only a small market if you use the archaic system Bud Selig used to judge market size. That is total population in the area. In the Business world, they use demographics. Certain demographics will support baseball much better than others. Our area has huge population in those certain demographics.

 

That's interesting. Do happen to know of a good article on that? I see some data under "MLB business demographics" about income, age, gender and ethnic makeup of baseball fans in general.

sportsbusinessdaily.com/article/119720

[Never Outhustled]

We'd keep Green to play 2B, as we're moving Lawrie.

When I saw Green play he didn't seem nearly agile enough to play 2B. he has a big butt and heavey feet. He physically reminds me of Tyler Houston.

[Hate those Rodents]

Please Roy, tell Toronto that you won't accept a trade to Milwaukee or tell Milwaukee you'll demand a trade after this season.

[TheCrew07]

I would like to know how including Parra in any deal helps plug the hole in the rotation? It replaces our only other high ceiling pitcher on the staff with a short term solution. What's long term about 2010? Parra isn't the hole, Burns is the hole, I still believe Parra will be a good pitcher, I'm not willing to give up on him yet. So in the playoffs we go Halladay, Yo, and.... whom? Bush isn't even pitching anymore... I thought originally we'd be lucky to have him back by August, now we'll be lucky to have him back by September. If my other playoff options are Looper and Suppan consider me uninspired.

 

It's the same problem I have with moving pitching for Peavy... we aren't in a position to move MLB pitching because we don't have enough. Trading a player we control for 4 years for a player that we'd control 2 doesn't plug the hole in the rotation and accelerates the need for a replacement. In my opinion the idea should be to balance on field production with long-term roster construction. This is not a World Series team no matter how many times people want to post "we just need to get in". Well true, you can't win the series if you don't make the post season... but the "we just need to get to the playoffs" argument is very thin, it's a purely superficial evaluation of what actually happens. The keys are the match ups, and whom do we match up well with in the playoffs, even with Halladay?

 

In some ways I wonder if people took anything away from last season's playoff experience other than "it was fun to be there". The Brewers weren't unlucky, they were over matched, they gave runs away on defense and the pitching on the whole was average to poor even with Sabathia and Gallardo. We can make excuses for Sabathia about how we burnt him out to get there... well what about Yo this year? For heaven's sake he only pitched 24 innings last year, how about some objectivity in regards to where this team is actually at? Is it a bad team? Nope. Is it a great team? Nope. The only reason we're in contention is because the central is garbage... we needed a year to get some questions answered and let Yo get his feet under him.

 

To make the playoffs we needed a couple of breaks to go our way, chiefly that Bush, Yo, and Parra had to stay healthy and effective all season. Sometimes it's just not going to be your year... I'm not throwing in the towel but I'm not convinced that acquiring Lopez and Halladay would make us a legit contender. We're an injury to Yo away from being out of it regardless what else Melvin does... I'll be honest, Yo's work load scares the hell out of me. I want him healthy and effective for years to come, not another Prior, Wood, or Neugebauer. We've made fun of Baker for years, but for some reason we don't see it when it's happening to our own guy.

 

Finally, at what point is making a move just bailing water on a sinking ship? This team hasn't played well in 6 weeks and while there's plenty of season left, I'm not sold that Halladay would magically jump start the team. The slumping extends team wide, through all of the pitching and position players, there are key cogs slumping everywhere on the team. We caught lightening in a bottle with Sabathia, and the Mets still had to choke their way into giving us the wildcard, thinking that everything would fall into place for us to back into the playoffs 2 years in a row seems like a stretch to me.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Why do so many people say no to this deal, if we can put Gamel into the deal as the centerpiece its a huge win for us. If we can trade the headcase (Parra) and not include Escobar or Gamel its over the top slam dunk for us. I remember reading the board last year on C.C, I don't want to give up these propsects don't trade Laporta etc... he is looking early on as a miss, where's Brantley, many complained about the Linebrink trade where are those guys traded 2-3 years ago now??? if you can't develop a #1 starter you better trade for one, here's our chance!!!! go get em Doug!!!

 

Wouldn't it be nice going into next season pretty much having your rotation set and not having to try and deal for a SP.

[Invader3K]

"Wouldn't it be nice going into next season pretty much having your rotation set and not having to try and deal for a SP."

 

That's what I keep coming back to. Even if the Brewers don't make the playoffs this season (a real possibility right now) they would at least have a top tier pitcher lined up at the start of 2010. It's not like Melvin will be able to find anyone comparable during the off season.

[Oldcity]

Wouldn't it be nice going into next season pretty much having your rotation set and not having to try and deal for a SP.

 

Yes, very nice, but if you trade Parra you won't accomplish that. What's the rotation next year then? Halladay, Gallardo, Bush, Suppan...? Looper if you bring him back, which doesn't excite me. There's just not nearly as big of an improvement if you lose Parra in a Halladay deal. There's a reason contenders trade prospects for good players. It doesn't make sense to trade off your major league team if you're trying to win now.

[colbyjack]

I like the idea of adding Halladay, as I especially like how he is signed through next year and gives the team a good two-year window to compete. I know quite a few people are concerned about how this team will thinned out yet again with minor league talent, but I am concerned about where the team expects to find its pitching the next several years. The team's best arms are several years away from contributing, particularly at a playoff-caliber level, and the entire team is going to be a lot more expensive than what it currently is after the 2010 season. Getting a player who is signed through these next two years like Halladay seems like a perfect situation to me, and he makes every single other pitcher on the staff better (particularly Gallardo).

 

Finding the package to acquire him of course is not the perfect situation. I would prefer not to see the team part with any player that is currently contributing at the big-league level, as again, those players are the ones that are not only being counted on this year, but are going to be counted on next year as well.

 

If it's plausible, go for it. Stack up now, and if you need to, strip down after 2010, accumulate draft picks and prospects, pare your payroll, keep the integral parts of the team (Gallardo & Braun most likely) and try again within (hopefully) 2-3 years. While Melvin has said all along that he has intended to build a consistent winner, you have to take your shots when the opportunity presents itself, and more and more teams go through such cycles these days. As long as the over-lying philosophies and talent evaluation remains intact, the team should be fine in the long-run.

 

Hopefully by then the players will be showing off a pair of WS rings http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif.

[jvrocksaz]

Hopefully Toronto was scouting Nashville pitching in their first game tonight! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

 

[paulmolitor4]

Invader3K wrote: It's not like Melvin will be able to find anyone comparable during the off season.

Peavy could be had in the offseason. He's younger and signed longer.

[jvrocksaz]

Invader3K wrote: It's not like Melvin will be able to find anyone comparable during the off season.

Peavy could be had in the offseason. He's younger and signed longer.

At the amount he is signed for it may not be worth it considering his recent injury history... Peavy's contract would be crippling for the Brewers! IMO

[paulmolitor4]

Invader3K wrote: It's not like Melvin will be able to find anyone comparable during the off season.

Peavy could be had in the offseason. He's younger and signed longer.

At the amount he is signed for it may not be worth it considering his recent injury history... Peavy's contract would be crippling for the Brewers! IMO

His recent injury had nothing to do with his arm, so I wouldn't worry too much about that, and his contract really isn't that bad considering he's only paid a couple million more than Suppan is right now. I think Peavy's contract tops out at 17 million in 2012, which I don't think will end up being all that much for an ace-type pitcher in a few years.

[brewtank34]

mark me down as someone who does not want to trade for Halladay/Lee. I'd rather have Parra, Gamel, Lawrie and anyone else who going to be a part of this deal rather than Doc. I'd rather trade off Hardy and some other prospects to get a 3-5 SP to finish off this year. The price is just way to steep for a shot at playoffs when the team that we have may or may not make the playoffs... Yes, I'm going back to the debate of...does this make us a World Series contender. The answer is a definite 'no'. We are not a WS team anyway you try to convince yourself. Phillies, Dodgers, Cardinals are noticably better than us. Yes, we're only 2 games back right now, but even when we're playing good, we're not as good as those teams. I say save your talent and hope for the best in the offseason. Sorry.

[Hate those Rodents]

There would be a host of pitchers that might be available in the off-season that could be 1 or 2 starters. Impossible to say they won't be available. I don't think teams offer what they do today during the off-season though because they feel that their team's Suppan/Looper/Bushes are good enough to take their teams to the promise land.

[JJHardy7]

If Prince is traded before he's FA, then we should get a pretty serious bounty in return, which would make it pretty easy to put together a team in 2012. Have you forgotten that, even though he's only signed through 2010, we control Prince through 2011?

 

I have not forgotten. I would just assume that he'll be moved for pitching. Again X, I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying you can't simply list names and say hey we're 4th in runs now our offense is fine. I do agree that there is potential to have some of our current guys for a few years, but this offense isn't fool proof or anything like that. Again, let's wait until the end of the seeing. If we're 4th then, maybe I'll buy into that more. There's still 60 or so games left.

 

We're 4th in Runs Scored without Weeks putting together a full season and without Hart figuring anything out. My proposal has Gamel staying here, plugged in on the cheap.

 

Weeks has never put a full season together. I don't get your point on that. The guys you mentioned could all improve and be pretty darn good then...or they could stay where they're at or not reach their full potential. My only point is that I personally think we can't just disregard the offense. I do agree that you could fine a defensive SS, but beyond Braun there are still a ton of questions. And again, you are right that we could trade one of Gamel or Escobar...but we need to make sure we trade the 'right' one.

 

Saying all that I wouldn't touch the trade you proposed, but that's just me. Trading Escobar or Gamel is one thing, but I don't want to give up that many hitters. I'm not saying your wrong and that deal could work out well. That's what makes this time of year interesting!

[TooLiveBrew]

His recent injury had nothing to do with his arm, so I wouldn't worry too much about that

 

Yes, his most recent injury was to his ankle, but imo monty is correct in labeling Peavy as a bigger injury risk than Halladay. The amount of Peavy's contract relative to Suppan is irrelevant. Peavy's still a very big risk for a team like the Brewers.

[Team Canada]

X, it's Marco Scutaro. Not Marcos.

 

Count me in the group of not wanting a Halladay/Parra swap. If Parra goes the way of JDLR then yeah, it's a good move, but I'm not to the point of making that bet yet. If he figures it out, that's a lot of years of good cheap pitching.

 

Beyond that, I'll be excited if we get him, but I'm glad it's not my call!

[endaround]

X, it's Marco Scutaro. Not Marcos.

 

Count me in the group of not wanting a Halladay/Parra swap. If Parra goes the way of JDLR then yeah, it's a good move, but I'm not to the point of making that bet yet. If he figures it out, that's a lot of years of good cheap pitching.

 

Beyond that, I'll be excited if we get him, but I'm glad it's not my call!

 

Actually he's been listed as both.

[Team Canada]

Interesting, that does appear to be his full name, but I don't recall ever seeing that before. Carry on..

[twobrewers]

I've changed my mind.

 

I'm willing to give up Escobar, Lawrie, Salome, plus one low pitcher. (Frederickson?)

 

But, in my opinion, we can't give up Parra. It would still leave us with a huge hole. And in order to give up all that talent, we need to compete this year and next year.

[BrewCrewForever]

mark me down as someone who does not want to trade for Halladay/Lee. I'd rather have Parra, Gamel, Lawrie and anyone else who going to be a part of this deal rather than Doc. I'd rather trade off Hardy and some other prospects to get a 3-5 SP to finish off this year. The price is just way to steep for a shot at playoffs when the team that we have may or may not make the playoffs... Yes, I'm going back to the debate of...does this make us a World Series contender. The answer is a definite 'no'. We are not a WS team anyway you try to convince yourself. Phillies, Dodgers, Cardinals are noticably better than us. Yes, we're only 2 games back right now, but even when we're playing good, we're not as good as those teams. I say save your talent and hope for the best in the offseason. Sorry.

Count me in on this. I have been as down on Parra as anyone, but he has shown a lot of the last two starts and I would hate to give up on a young cheap pitcher who we have under control for awhile yet just as he might find his groove along with any combination of Lawrie/Gamel/Escobar. I also don't think we are quite a WS contender so lets try to make the playoffs with what we have and see what happens.

[The Heartbreak Yid]

The question is, how many of your top prospects do you really want Melvin giving up for rent a players or guys who you'll have for 1 more year? Say he does land Halladay. Trades a way Escobar or Gamel and Parra. Halladay makes the Brewers contenders next year, maybe they make the playoffs, maybe not. Then, in 2-3 years time, guys like Fielder, Hardy, and Weeks start goign their seperate ways. Meanwhile, The Brewers have finished higher in the standings the past few years, so they dont get the high draft picks they used to. Now, you maybe have Braun for a few more years and maybe either Escobar or Gamel, and your stuck patching the rest of the team together and back to where you were in, well, pretty much most of the time before 2007. Is it really worth it?

[KCBrewerfan34]

There will be a host of #1 and #2 starters available this offseason?? Is your definition of "host" a few. If they're FA's they'll be tough to get, here's our best chance to compete this year and next, Halladay or Lee.

 

This team can't go into the off-season with needs at SP, C, CF, and prob RF.

 

Also, with no pitching options in the minors close to the majors this will solve a major prob for this year and next. I think is almost a no brainer for us, I do agree keeping Parra would be nice.

[Invader3K]

I do agree giving up Parra at this point would be kind of silly, since that would still leave a gaping hole in the #5 pitching spot. A rotation of Halladay/Gallardo/Parra/Looper/Suppan looks a heck of a lot better than Halladay/Gallardo/Looper/Suppan/Burns (or McClung or some AAA pitcher with no MLB experience to speak of).