Roy Halladay

[trwi7]

If it takes a "Teixeira like haul" for the Blue Jays to move him, then count me out.

[TheCrew]

Manny Parra is not listed on Nashville's rotation for this week at all. More than likely he is just being called up and the TBA is because it is Manny on Thursday. Sorry no Halladay yet.

I saw that - mostly wishful thinking on my part.......

[kramnoj]

Why is everyone so eager to give up Escobar?

 

There is a difference between being eager to give up Escobar and understanding that he pretty much has to be included in a deal for Halladay.

[Invader3K]

Halladay would almost instantly reinvigorate this shaky team right now. That said, it still seems like it would be a pipe dream for the Brewers to get him at this point.

[logan82]

Why is everyone so eager to give up Escobar?

 

There is a difference between being eager to give up Escobar and understanding that he pretty much has to be included in a deal for Halladay.

If Escobar has to be included then count me out unless JJ signs a long term deal, which I doubt happens.

[crewcrazy]

It should also be noted that Roy Halladay has 10/5 trade rights, so even if the Jays can find a deal they like, it's no guarantee that he's going anywhere. I believe Halladay has even said that he has no interest in changing teams right now, so all this discussion might be moot. Still fun, though. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

 

If the Jays are looking for a Teixeira-to-Atlanta return, I don't think the Brewers could possibly compete. I heard a compelling case for the Phillies, though, based around guys like Kyle Drabek.

[TooLiveBrew]

Another nay vote on moving Escobar (or Gamel, frankly). I like how trwi7 said it: " If it takes a "Teixeira like haul" for the Blue Jays to move him, then count me out."

[shelmark]

If we get Halladay that makes us contenders this year AND next. After next year Halladay, Hall, and Suppan all come off the books. Escobar can be traded and I don't really care how much Melvin gives up to get H. I will trade prospects for two years of contention any time. If we had major league ready pitching available I would not feel this way, but we will have no infusion of talent into our rotation next year either.

[TheCrew]

If we get Halladay that makes us contenders this year AND next. After next year Halladay, Hall, and Suppan all come off the books. Escobar can be traded and I don't really care how much Melvin gives up to get H. I will trade prospects for two years of contention any time. If we had major league ready pitching available I would not feel this way, but we will have no infusion of talent into our rotation next year either.

I feel the same way - brewers have two legit #1's if this trade is pulled off, Escobar is the guy I want to keep but based on what I read he would have to be part of the deal...... but like you said, we'd be contenders this season and next...... can't really put a price tag on that.

[TheCrew07]

I guess to put this in perspective some for those who don't know the prospects very well in either system.

 

Feliz throw his fastball 94-95 consistently, hitting 99 on occasion, he's got an arm like Jeffress. He's tall, built solidly, and knows how to pitch. He'll struggle with his command here and there, but MiLB rated him as the 9th best prospect in the game after last season. Feliz skipped A+ going directly from A to AA last season, he had 153 Ks in 127.1 IP... he's a machine. At the time of the trade he was in rookie ball.

 

Andrus again is similar to Escobar, stole more bases, but has a much a lighter bat than Esky does at this point. When I talked about Escobar letting comparisons get to his head I was referring to a comparison between these 2 players where Andrus won the speed catagory because he stole more bases, a total of 54 last season. Escobar has been young for his league, Andrus has been even younger. At the time of the trade they both started in A+ though Esky got bumped to AA after the break. Andrus was rated the #2 prospect in Atlanta's system at the time of the trade by Baseball America.

 

Jones is another projectable framed LHP and had high 80s low 90s type fastball with a good curve, he was a supplemental first round pick in 2005 and was anointed the next great Braves pitching prospect, it just never came to be. I've found reports that said he struggled early in games and with men on base. I'm not sure how relieving was the best option for him. He always had good K rates but an alarming walk rate, his WHIP and ERA were never very good. He's somewhat similar to Frederickson now that I think about it, but Evan has gotten better results and seems to be improving. At the time of the trade he was 5-0 in the SAL (repeating the league) with a 2.96 ERA, it appeared he had broken out as a reliever after struggling as a starter.

 

Harrison is a LHP pitcher with a very nice projectable frame, has similar velocity to Parra but they have different pitches, and Parra always had better peripheral numbers. They've both shown flashes of brilliance and struggled over all in the Majors. Again at the time of trade he was pitching very well in AA. Harrison was rated the #3 prospect in the Atlanta system by Baseball America at the time of the trade.

 

Salty again was another supplemental first round pick, a switch hitter, very good power potential, not a great receiver behind the dish, was blocked by McCann, but he was the #1 prospect in Atlanta's system according to BA.

 

Atlanta gave up their 1, 2, and 3 prospects along with a tremendous upside pitcher in Feliz, and a projectable LHP drafted out of HS recently converted to relief in Jones. Our current 1, 2, 3 are Escobar, Gamel, and Lawrie... then they a guy with Jeffress velocity, and a HS LHP who's a poor man's Frederickson.

 

If we make a deal that lopsided for a similar result (sitting on the outside looking in) I might need to be put on suicide watch.

[Marc Newfield of Dreams]

Time for a 4H trade.

 

Hart

Hardy

Hall

 

for

 

Halladay

 

Sounds fair, right?

[The Truth]

No way do I trade Escobar, I think he's going to be one of MLB's best SS's.

[BrewCrewForever]

Time for a 4H trade.

 

Hart

Hardy

Hall

 

for

 

Halladay

 

Sounds fair, right?

That would e awesome, I would pull the trigger on that in a second. Bring Escobar up to play SS now have Catalanotto play RF the rest of this year and next year you move Gamel or McGehee to the OF and keep the other at 3B. And then your rotation is headed by Halladay/Gallardo, what a one two punch.

[Invader3K]

Time for a 4H trade.

 

Hart

Hardy

Hall

 

for

 

Halladay

 

Sounds fair, right?

 

The Blue Jays' GM sees the games and stats too, you know. There's no way they would take three punchless hitters for one of the best pitchers in the game.

[Marc Newfield of Dreams]

The Blue Jays' GM sees the games and stats too, you know. There's no way they would take three punchless hitters for one of the best pitchers in the game.

I thought he went by good looks, fan votes, and pink bat homers.

Of course I know that, I was being facetious with my "proposed" trade.

[Invader3K]

OK, fair enough. Sometimes it's hard to tell around here.

 

I hope Melvin is at least seriously inquiring on Halladay to see if they might be able to match up. We really need a pitcher like him right now, and for next year too.

[brewmann04]

Do you think we are just one pitcher away this season this team has more holes in their Lineup and would like to keep our Top Prospects.

[bobloblaw]

Just wanted to give an opinion from a Jays fan on Halladay. First off, he is one of the best character guys in all of baseball and a fan favorite here. He is loyal and took a below average deal to stay with Toronto already twice now, he is more interested in winning now than he is in making money. At the end of his contract in a year and a half you would have as much a chance at resigning him as any other team as long as you have a potential winner, it may not even break the bank. That being said, if he is traded this year consider what you got for C.C last year and that is probably a starting point for the rest of this season. Then you have him for all next year to make a run at the world series as well. If you are out of it by the break then you can flip him at the deadline next year for some great prospects or take the draft picks. The brewers seem like the best fit because every other team has outfield prospects to offer, where you have infield prospects. I think it would probably take Escobar/Gamel and Lawrie (he is Canadian and that has value to ownership) for J.P to consider dealing Roy, maybe even both Escobar and Gamel. What you would be getting is a pitcher with no durability concerns who goes deep into games at over 220 innings a year with a sub 3 era. If we trade Roy we are in full rebuilding mode so Rolen could replace Gamel at third easily with gold glove defense. He is also hitting 325/386/480 in the AL East this year. I guess it depends on how close you think you are to a world series and how important that is to you against the future. If you make the playoffs than Halladay and Gallardo would be an incredible advantage over most teams.

[Oldcity]

I love Halladay. He's probably the best pitcher in the game. I just think that if the Brewers are going to make a great offer for Halladay, they should do it for Haren instead just because he's under control longer.

 

Bob Loblaw, great user name.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

Maybe they would cut us a break after swiping Molitor from us!

[lcbj68c]

I didnt think about re-turning Halladay, but that is a very good point. I'd give up 2 of the top 3 for Halladay and would prefer to keep Escobar. Some other lower level prospects would be okay as well. McGehee seems to be able to hold his own, though we do lose a left handed power bat in Gamel and I'm not sure who the next left handed power bat is in the minors.

[logan82]

If we trade Roy we are in full rebuilding mode so Rolen could replace Gamel at third easily with gold glove defense. He is also hitting 325/386/480 in the AL East this year.

 

I really don't see Rolen as a replacement for Gamel to be honest. We have Gamel for at worst(if we let him rot on the bench instead of sending him down) 5 years after this. Cheap, long term solutions are invaluable to us and is why Gamel, Escobar, and probably Lawrie are untouchable. The best prospect we are probably wiling to part with would be Salome. Maybe Parra if it brings back a top line starter we would have for a couple years. I would also hate to give up Parra because he is a long term solutino to a spot in the rotation as well.(4 years after this I believe)

[bobloblaw]

If we trade Roy we are in full rebuilding mode so Rolen could replace Gamel at third easily with gold glove defense. He is also hitting 325/386/480 in the AL East this year.

 

I really don't see Rolen as a replacement for Gamel to be honest. We have Gamel for at worst(if we let him rot on the bench instead of sending him down) 5 years after this. Cheap, long term solutions are invaluable to us and is why Gamel, Escobar, and probably Lawrie are untouchable. The best prospect we are probably wiling to part with would be Salome. Maybe Parra if it brings back a top line starter we would have for a couple years. I would also hate to give up Parra because he is a long term solutino to a spot in the rotation as well.(4 years after this I believe)

Fair enough, when I suggested Rolen to offset the loss of Gamel I had just 09 and 10 in mind. I was thinking along the lines of you guys making a run at the World Series this year and next. If you don't think Halladay would be enough to give you that chance than holding onto your prospects is the right move long term. I understand it hurts for smaller payroll teams to cash in all their chips to go for it, if you are wrong it can set you back many years. In my opinion Halladay is worth it, and he is just that good that he could take you over the top in your division.

Edit to add link on Halladays value - http://www.fangraphs.com/...oy-halladays-trade-value

[logan82]

Unlike many others I am not convinced McGehee is as good as he has been this year. In my opinion we will need Gamel before the end of the year when McGehee starts to hit like expected. I would have a hard time stomaching trading one of those guys let alone 2. Gamel, Escobar and Lawrie are probably at most 2-2 1/2 half years from playing on the MLB team for us. Gamel next year3B or OF. Escobar next year or the year after at the very latest baring a long term contract for Hardy. Lawrie at 2B mid 2011 or at the start of 2012 after Weeks is gone. That isn't even taking Fielder leaving into account(2012), which I think will be filled by Gamel with Green coming up to play 3B. We really need all of those guys to fill holes pretty soon.

 

We have somewhat of a redundancy at C with Salome at AAA and Lucroy at AA, which is why I think one of them is the biggest we will part with.

 

I have little doubt Halladay would instantly make us the favorites in the NL Central and a serious World Series contender. However, giving up any of those guys does serious damage to future years. Near future years.

 

I know the Brewers traded their biggest prospect last year, but LaPorta was pretty redundant with Braun in LF and Hart coming off of a big year in 2007 in RF. We can also move almost any guy to 1B as a last resort.

[1e Corbeau]

@bobloblaw:

 

As a Jays fan, do you think they'd be intrigued by anyone on our 25-man not named Braun, Fielder or Gallardo? If they deal Halliday, is it rebuliding for sure?

 

Baiscally, I'm curious if Ricciardi would be interested in Hardy - either as a 1.5 year solution at SS or who, like Halliday, could be flipped at the deadline next year or in the offseason or who would (likely) garner Type A comp picks - Hart (2.5 years of control), or Parra (4.5 more years of control)?

 

I'm of the school that would rather hold Gamel and Escobar (especially the latter). I realize that may be wishful thinking. I would be open to include anyone else, though Braddock and Peralta would hurt. Perhaps a Lawrie, Green, who could be a 3B solution for the Jays in 2011, and Periard Canadian package (we could toss in Chris Dennis, too!) + Hardy.

 

Would Ricciardi want to package Rios to ditch some salary? Or does he seem likely to look for greatest value on Halliday alone?

 

Thanks for stopping by BF.net.