Roy Halladay

[JJHardy7]

The Brewers offense in 2011 can include Weeks, Gamel, Braun, Fielder, McGehee, and Hart. Thats a good offense.

 

How does that differ all that much from this year though? I don't know if I'd bank on Weeks, McGehee, and Hart. I do believe Gamel will be fine, but again we don't know that for sure. I agree that it would be easier to find a capable SS (not replace Escobar because I don't know how easy it will be able to do that if he's able to be a leadoff type guy), but the offense might need tweaking also.

 

Again, X I do agree with you that we're not going to become the Pirates. We do have a plan, but it'd be nice to add more players to that plan 3 years from now besides just Braun and Yo.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Baseball is not like basketball where you can just build around one or two guys. This team has many holes and Roy Halladay is not the difference between us being contenders and world series champions. I could understand this potential deal if were better but this team is flat out mediocre.

[brewmann04]

I am not sure but have you watched this team especiialy since June . They have so many Holes that a pitcher who starts every 5th day will not any different. Keep Gamel and Escobar and start moving your dead weight Like Hardy and Hart and wishfully Hall.

[WisconsinSportsRule]

Like many have said, it Melvin makes a trade for Halladay, then he's crazy. This team is not one great pitcher away from a championship. This would sacrifice the future too much, IMO especially when dealing with the budget. I'd be irrate if we gave up Gamel or Escobar at this point for Doc.

[ELCABALLO45]

Im not exactly sure if I would like the Brewers to trade for Halladay.

 

I just wanted to jump in here and remind people, that the difference between playoff contender and WS contender is very very small. All you have to do is get in, the playoffs are a crap shoot.

[Hate those Rodents]

If Hardy had any value to acquire us pitching, we wouldn't have to even worry about what will be more painful.....watching Gamel or Escobar in a different cap in an MLB allstar uniform.

[snyttri]

The Brewers are also demographically a much larger market than Pittsburg, and it shows in our TV ratings and attendance. This has lead us to a payroll about $40 million larger than Pittsburgs. We also have the ability to continue to grow our payroll if we have success. Winning the WS is a huge financial windfall.

The Brewers and Pirates are both near the bottom in market size. The Brewers have done so well in popularity lately, surpassing larger markets, that it will be a real accomplishment to keep it going. If the Brewers stop contending their true market size could rear its head again pretty fast.

[TheCrew]

Baseball is not like basketball where you can just build around one or two guys. This team has many holes and Roy Halladay is not the difference between us being contenders and world series champions. I could understand this potential deal if were better but this team is flat out mediocre.

Are you just going in every single thread and saying Halladay isn't the difference? Don't mean to be rude, but I've been on this site 10 minutes - and I've seen the same type of post from you in the first 3 threads I've visited.

 

What's the big difference between this team and last years team? Starting pitching - It's very possible that an elite pitcher would put this team over the top. Halladay (or Lee) not only gives the team a very good chance of winning, but he gives the bullpen a break and thus improves the chances every other game.

 

This team has given up 302 runs in their 47 losses - That is nearly 6.5 runs per game, on the flip side they have given up 156 runs in their 48 wins (3.25 runs a game - nearly half of the runs given up compared to when games are lost)

 

Pitching is the problem and 1 elite starting pitcher could make that much of a difference.

[Never Outhustled]

The Brewers and Pirates are both near the bottom in market size. The Brewers have done so well in popularity lately, surpassing larger markets, that it will be a real accomplishment to keep it going. If the Brewers stop contending their true market size could rear its head again pretty fast.

The Brewers are only a small market if you use the archaic system Bud Selig used to judge market size. That is total population in the area. In the Business world, they use demographics. Certain demographics will support baseball much better than others. Our area has huge population in those certain demographics. That was the driving force behind Attanosio's desire to buy the team, he knew with a professional caliber business model, the team would be immensely popular. Atlanta, though much larger in total population, is lacking in the relevant demographic, which is why they struggle in attendance despite there massive success the last 15 years. Pittsburgh is a triple whammy, low population, the wrong demographic, and an uninspiring stadium.

[Crew2323]

Heyman expanded his "tweet" with this interesting article, which includes quotes from anonymous MLB executives.

 

Here is a quote that I found most interesting:

"We're going to be aggressive,'' one Brewers person said without mentioning any specific names.

[brewmann04]

Was that before the Brewers lose 2-3 to the Pirates but lets see what Melvin Planning to do.

[Invader3K]

I doubt one series loss will determine whether or not Melvin makes a trade. But the Brewers had better start winning some games quickly if they do want some help.

[Hate those Rodents]

Hopefully, then, the total amount of series' to date this year will be enough for Melvin to avoid dealing a good chunk of our future for the slight shot at playoffs this season. And I say slight MAYBE putting us at 25% chance of winning the division.

[Never Outhustled]

Baseball is not like basketball where you can just build around one or two guys. This team has many holes and Roy Halladay is not the difference between us being contenders and world series champions. I could understand this potential deal if were better but this team is flat out mediocre.

The team is 4th in Runs Scored, the offense isn't mediocre. Then look at the 5 rotation spots. 1 is outstanding, 3 are a little below average. 1 has been atrocious. Halladay would be replacing that. The Brewers had 5 starters competing at a tollerable level when they aquired CC last year. last year, our offense was only ranked 6th, not 4th. Halladay would actually have a bigger impact than CC did because of what he'd be replacing.

 

 

The Brewers offense in 2011 can include Weeks, Gamel, Braun, Fielder, McGehee, and Hart. Thats a good offense.

 

How does that differ all that much from this year though?

 

We'd be replacing Counsell/Hall with Gamel in a lineup that is already 4th in Runs Scored. We also likely be looking at offensive production from the catcher position.

 

 

 

Again, X I do agree with you that we're not going to become the Pirates. We do have a plan, but it'd be nice to add more players to that plan 3 years from now besides just Braun and Yo.

Which of the traded players would be added to the team in 2012? Just Escobar. Green is blocked by Gamel. Lawrie might not be ready by then, with just 2 more years in the minors. We will have already added Cain and 1 of the catchers. I think Gindl is an under-rated player, who should easily replace Hart. We could add a FA. We have 4 starters right now that we've signed as FA's, plus our closer.

[derflotr]

I like that the Brewers are in pursuit, but I guess I don't really get the point if Parra's included. Halladay/Yo is obviously a better 1-2 than Yo/Parra, but Manny has looked awfully good in his last couple starts and I'm not sure Halladay is so much of an improvement that it justifies trading away multiple MLB-ready top prospects. Either way, like others have said, we're waiting on a healthy Dave Bush. Am I overrating Manny Parra's potential?

 

I'd prefer a package centered around Gamel, Lawrie, and maybe even Salome if necessary. McGehee is looking more and more like a legitimate starter at 3B when healthy, and though not a star, can at least fill in respectably until we know what Taylor Green can do.

 

But really - I don't think standing pat at the deadline is such a terrible idea. Opening holes for Gamel or Escobar comes a lot easier in the offseason.

[JJHardy7]

We'd be replacing Counsell/Hall with Gamel in a lineup that is already 4th in Runs Scored. We also likely be looking at offensive production from the catcher position.

 

Oh I understand that, but some of the guys you mentioned we shouldn't bank on to be here or be above average. Let's also see where we finish the year in runs scored. It looks nice now and hopefully we continue that.

 

Which of the traded players would be added to the team in 2012? Just Escobar. Green is blocked by Gamel. Lawrie might not be ready by then, with just 2 more years in the minors. We will have already added Cain and 1 of the catchers. I think Gindl is an under-rated player, who should easily replace Hart. We could add a FA. We have 4 starters right now that we've signed as FA's, plus our closer.

 

My point is that the list you had doesn't impress me enough to think it's a slam dunk we'll win the division in 2011. Prince may not be here. I'd rather have more guys plugged in on the cheap like Escobar and Gamel than bank on Prince being here, Hart figuring it out, or Weeks putting together a full year. The offense as it stands now could be awesome or have a lot of holes. Some of the guys you listed aren't the most proven as above average players IMO. Maybe they will be then. It looks like you were just making a basic statement so I'll try not to read too much into it since you mention Hart being replaced. The way I see is that we have more questions than answers for 2012 and not the other way around.

 

I also don't care if anyone is blocked. You can turn those players for other assets if you have the right timing. Again, I won't dive to far into your comment. I do agree that we would be able to give away a prospect and not be crushed, but I also think we need to make sure we'll be able to field a solid offense in 2012. Lots of things could happen between now and then obviously.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

I get less excited about this trade if Parra is included. We would still be stuck trotting Burns out there every 5 days and who knows what happens with Bushie. We'd also need some assurance he'd stick around for 2010. I'm still not convinced this team is solid enough to mortgage the future for a CC-like rental.

 

I have no problem moving Lawrie. If we can get the Canadian premium for him, terrific. He's starting to get a bad rep for his attitude. Hopefully he's just young. Escobar would be tough, but he's probably the guy would would have to go. At least we have JJ for one more year.

 

What I do get excited about is not only a team that could win this crummy division, but putting Yo & Halladay out there in a playoff series may actually give them a chance. At this point even if they won the division, it's tough to imagine them getting by both the Phils & Dodgers. The window is also open to 2011. Even though Braun will be here for a long time, I shudder to think what this offense looks like without Prince.

[Hate those Rodents]

I happen to feel that if Melvin is going to go after the big dog every year or even in any given year, he needs to have better timing in trading some of the current MLB crew for pitching or prospects. Hardy and Hart obviously stick out like a sore thumb to me. If he is smart enough to peddle them at the right time, we'd either have more prospects to be able to do a trade like this or we'd have the pitching to not need to do something like this.

 

Until Melvin shows an ability to sell high on some of our MLB guys, it's really too costly to do a move like this each and every year.

[GB12]

Until Melvin shows an ability to sell high on some of our MLB guys, it's really too costly to do a move like this each and every year.

That's something that is very appealing to me about trading for Halladay. He's under contract through next year. We wouldn't have to do a move like this again next year since we'd have Halladay from the start.

[ryne100]

That's something that is very appealing to me about trading for Halladay. He's under contract through next year. We wouldn't have to do a move like this again next year since we'd have Halladay from the start.

and if we play bad next year or run into injuries, we just flip him for another good young player or two

[Never Outhustled]

My point is that the list you had doesn't impress me enough to think it's a slam dunk we'll win the division in 2011. Prince may not be here.

If Prince is traded before he's FA, then we should get a pretty serious bounty in return, which would make it pretty easy to put together a team in 2012. Have you forgotten that, even though he's only signed through 2010, we control Prince through 2011?

 

 

I'd rather have more guys plugged in on the cheap like Escobar and Gamel than bank on Prince being here, Hart figuring it out, or Weeks putting together a full year.

We're 4th in Runs Scored without Weeks putting together a full season and without Hart figuring anything out. My proposal has Gamel staying here, plugged in on the cheap.

 

 

Heres a recap of my offer from post #247:

 

Toronto has asked for a Teixeira type deal, that includes an MLB ready SS. The Teixeira deal included prospects ranked 1,2,3,14, and 17 in Atlanta's system, though most were a few years from being MLB ready. Toronto has alot of young pitching, but need offense. Their OF is set for years. We're the perfect trading partner for them. Escobar is the MLB ready SS. Brett Lawrie is a guy they wanted to draft, but we picked 1 spot ahead of them. Taylor Green is the type of player their scouting style would appreciate, a high OBA hitter who may not look the part but gets results with very good batspeed, and he would fit perefectly taking over for Rolen when his deal is up, or if he's dealt before then. Those are prospects 1,3,and 8 in our system.

 

 

To Toronto: Escobar, Lawrie, Green, Periard, their choice of Peralta/Scarpetta

 

To Milwaukee: Halladay, SS Juan Diaz (from Seattle)

 

To Seattle: Marcos Scutaro

 

The Teixera deal also included LHP Ron Mahay to Atlanta, so I thought Toronto should throw in a player too, and Scutaro is obsolete with Escobar in town. Seattle is contending, and could really use a SS. Juan Diaz is athletic, a strong defender, and is having a solid season in A+.

 

Toronto gets 3 Canadians in the deal, which should help with the PR nightmare trading Halladay will be.

[Oldcity]

Not to be an echo, but this is much less appealing if Parra is included. We want the difference to be between Burns and Halladay, which is astronomical, and not between Halladay and Parra. Plus Parra will still be cheap next year, and the Brewers will need cheap starting pitchers if they have Halladay's salary.

[DHonks]

X, that trade is similar to what I have thought would work.

I would tweak my proposal a bit:

Escobar, Lawrie, Butler (as PTBNL, since injured now), Cain, and perhaps a reliever like Axford.

 

I'd consider adding McGehee if they'd throw in Rolen while taking Hall. With the savings they'd be getting by cutting loose Halladay and Rolen, they could easily afford Hall for 1.5 years.

[Never Outhustled]

Escobar, Lawrie, Butler (as PTBNL, since injured now), Cain, and perhaps a reliever like Axford.

 

Why would we keep Green if we're keeping Gamel? Would Toronto really desire Cain instead of Green when they're stuck with Wells in CF forever? Also, Cain has a clear starting path here, so I'd like to keep him.

[1e Corbeau]

We'd keep Green to play 2B, as we're moving Lawrie. Or, as insurance against McGehee's bat not being what some expect or Gamel's D nt being sufficient to stick at 3B.

 

Though, I'd include Green in a blink if Toronto insisted.