Brewers talking with Jeff Suppan

[RyDogg66]

Maybe when they finished 14th overall he forgot what he was doing.

[Invader3K]

Well, given that he has more than one World Series ring, I'd say he knows what he's doing. I definitely wish Yost would adopt a pitching philosophy a little closer to LaRussa's.

[bsglorydays]

I definitely wish Yost would adopt a pitching philosophy a little closer to LaRussa's.

 

That could happen if the Brewers had any reliable relievers (non-closers). Last year, Yost's hands were tied IMO. He had nobody in setup that he could really trust (especially in July and August), except Shouse for the most part.

 

Hopefully some of those yahoos in the pen get things straightened out and / or new guys are acquired.

[SoCalBrewfan]

From that Rosenthal column, it sounds like Suppan wants 4/$44M. Considering what Meche got, that's peanuts in this market, for all that it might blow up in a couple years.

[bjkrautk]

My $.02

 

If the Brewers really have the money to drop 10-11 million into Suppan, then get him. He would be the # 3 starter behind Sheets and Cappy, and turns Vargas into the # 5 starter (that he probably should be at this point in his career).

 

Heck, the prospect of never having to play against him should be worth at least 2 wins.

 

Scary thought: adding a moderately-good SP next season could cost even more next year than it does this year. (Remember all the pitchers who signed for $ 7 mil a year last off-season?) I don't see baseball revenue going down any time soon, so these numbers aren't likely to come down.

[dadofandrew]

With the labor deal in place and a new TV deal, I can't see salaries going down. Even with the horrible luck of the $7M SP deals (Ortiz, Milton), the cost just keeps going up.

 

EDIT: Ben and I think alike.

[RyDogg66]

Im starting to come around on Suppan. Especially if they front load the contract like I suggested above.

[Invader3K]

Exactly. We'll probably be saying next off season "$15 million/yr for a starting pitcher may be what the market says, but it's too much money right now."

[foamboy1]

With all the offers I'd be shocked if Suppan wanted to play in Milwaukee. Sorry if this sentiment was posted earlier...I didn't have time to check the responses.

 

As far as the guy who said we had low taxes...it's the opposite. We have high taxes. NV, TN, TX and FL have no state taxes, which is a 7+% savings annually on the contract amount...just to play in TX or FL. Playing in a larger market immediately offers more sports marketing opportunities, etc. as well.

[shtiny]

GS: 19

IP: 119.7

H: 110

BB: 41

K:68

ERA: 2.41

Ratio: 1.26

G/F: 1.44

 

Really... this isn't someone you would want on your team. These are Suppan's stats after the all-star break. That is totally worth 10 M/year

[dadofandrew]

Suppan would not have to pay WI taxes unless he became a resident.

[Ennder]

Nice way to ignore the 5.83 ERA, 1.62 WHIP pre all-star break.

 

Judging a pitcher by a single season is silly, judging them by half a season is utterly useless which is why we need another starter in the first place. If you want to judge a pitcher by half a season than Villanueva is our man.

 

Quote:

---

LaRussa is known for micro-managing. With a weak left handed hitter at the plate, and one man on, he'll go to the pen for a lefty to ensure the out occurs

---

 

This is part of why Cardinals pitchers tend to balloon in ERA when they change teams, this and the fact that STL is the best defensive team in the NL. If anything this hurts Suppan's case.

 

Anyway I'm happy enough if we sign him, I like the depth he gives us in our rotation. I won't be happy with the final dollar amount but its not my money and I don't think he'll be overpayed to the point where it kills the future of the team. Plus I'm sure he would be easy to trade if need be in the future, teams are starving for pitching.

[TooLiveBrew]

Quote:

---

I don't think he'll be overpayed to the point where it kills the future of the team.

---

I think that's the most concisely stated version of the best point on this thread, Ennder.

 

Is a 4 year, $45 mil contract big, especially to Milwaukee? Yes. But Soup is proven to be a durable, reliable, savvy pitcher. He's far superior, IMO to the Meches & Lillys of the world. His value is also enhanced by the fact that his game is not pitching power (see Capuano, Maddux, Glavine, etc.) -- allowing him to maintain his "stuff" for years longer than guys whose velocity deteriorates.

 

FA prices are a factor, too. Although a correction will come in the not-too-distant future, they are unlikely to go down in the next year or two, and front-loading (again, props to RyDogg) his contract will make his $$ relatively inconsequential to future FA/Re-signing needs for the Crew. Additionally, it will make him easier to trade in the future.

 

I think a front-loaded contract in the neighborhood of 4/$45-50 would not only land Suppan, but it would benefit the team in the short & long term. I like what the player brings on field & in clubhouse, and the money (structured correctly) will have the deal looking sweet by the time 2009 rolls around

[molitor fan]

I think Suppan is a Brewer within 224 hours.

[Patrick425]

Quote:

---

I think Suppan is a Brewer within 24 hours.

---

 

I think Suppan and Zito are both trying to be the last one standing, hoping that will up their value.

[TooLiveBrew]

Wow, I hope you're right, mollyfan

 

Just reading your post made me excited.

 

One last thing to say (until the verdict is in on Soup -- come on Zito, sign already!) -

 

I know people are going back & forth on what rotation slot Suppan would fill. I don't want to belittle these people, but it really doesn't matter. It's kind of like the leadoff spot in the batting order -- once you get past the first few weeks of the season, rotation # is really meaningless.

 

What does matter, and I think anyone would agree, is that Suppan's a reliable, proven, successful MLB pitcher. He makes our team better by being on it, not necessarily filling a specified role.

 

I'll echo Melvin continuously: It's about having depth of good baseball players. Where & when these guys play is significantly secondary. (Obviously you want your best players getting the most work)

 

As if it weren't clear, I just don't give a crap what spot Suppan holds down, as long as he's wearing the 'M' & barley in 2007, and I think the debate on which rotation spot he deserves/projects to/etc. cheapens the argument of whether or not to add him.

[reillymcshane]

Let's assume Suppan wants (and will get 4years/$44 million. If you front load a contract, you can actually pay him a couple of million dollars less. So if you did payouts of $15, 11, 8, 8 millon ($42 million total), you might save a couple of million total, and make it easier to manage your funds post 2008. It also makes him easier to deal, if it comes down to that (of course, it means you've paid more per season if deal him after - say 2008.)

 

Of course, you have to have $15 million available this year. That likely means getting someone to take guys like Clark, Tbow, Jenks and Mench - without us picking up much of the tab.

[reillymcshane]

I read that Suppan is waiting for Zito to sign, hoping that other teams that lose out on Zito, will then get into the game after him. So, don't expect anything until Zito signs.

[laserbomb]

I don't know if that $17M/yr 2009-10 was in all seriousness, especially combined with easily being able to trade him at that time. I'm all for creative paperwork, but I'm about speechless about how harmful that option would be.

 

 

One thing that hasn't really come up, most of us probably considered Sheets' deal to be a bargain when he signed, maybe a little discount to stay where he likes it, bright future and all that. I still see this to be a huge bargain, even over the last two years for what he brings to the table, and especially with two years left at Gil Meche-type payroll.

 

He doesn't seem like a guy who'd be bent out of shape about the #4 starter making more than him, but it's hard to see a good shot at keeping him after this contract, when he would be one of the best pitchers this decade to hit free agency with something left in his prime. I'd be happy if they offered him a 4 year, $55M extension today, last two years considered. Maybe they'd look at that next year if he bounces back strong this year, but the price would jump and it seems a lot easier to justify $16M for Sheets than $27M for Sheets and Suppan, over a third of any conceivable payroll we'd be looking at. I just think Sheets is one of the greats to wear the jersey, but I guess we have to trust Melvin and Attanasio to look at consequences while they try to improve the team.

 

I'd have to close my eyes tight, ram my fingers in my ears and hum loudly when the contract terms are announced, but there's not much to do but trust they'd do their best not to make a move that would cripple the team in a couple years with so many guys due raises. With what's out there and what the Brewers are offering for trade, this is about the biggest move they could possibly make, and if the numbers fit together all right I'd be happy to see it. They're probably thinking about Sheets too, and we never know a guy but from anything I know, I've never heard he's been a prima donna about anything.

[TooLiveBrew]

Quote:

---

Of course, you have to have $15 million available this year. That likely means getting someone to take guys like Clark, Tbow, Jenks and Mench - without us picking up much of the tab.

---

Reilly - I feel like Melvin has a nice opportunity here. He can improve the rotation & team by bringing in Suppan. Then, the situation works in both ways you reference:

 

We need $$$ flexibility, we have over $10 mil to ditch in the 4 guys you cited.

 

We also still have a need in the BP, and I continue to hold out hope that, between Mench, Jenkins, Clark, & TBow, there's at least one reliable late-innings arm to be had.

 

So, one need plays into another -- our need for a BP arm plays into our need for $$ flexibility.

 

I'm gonna go call Boras now, little kick in the butt to get the Zito deal done....

[adamb100]

I'm all for Suppan joining the Crew. What his #'s against the Cubs? Maybe he's a Cubbie killer too. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Invader3K]

Quote:

---

I think Suppan is a Brewer within 24 hours.

---

 

I can only hope. What makes you so opimstic? I remember last year when people on this board were making projected lineups with Wisconsin's own Jarrod Washburn penciled into the rotation, and look how that turned out.

[TooLiveBrew]

On the Zito deal being Suppan's "Go" signal:

 

This from Rotoworld (Source: Newsday)

Quote:

---

The Mets are working to arrange a face-to-face meeting with free agent Barry Zito. It will probably come next week. Although the Giants are also supposed to be in the running, this will probably come down to the Rangers and the Mets. The Rangers should have the biggest offer on the table, but GM Omar Minaya won't be as stingy as some of the reports suggest. The Mets remain the clear favorites here.

---

In addition to the Baseball Cowboys having a big offer, there's new Mgr. Ron Washington -- the Rangers weren't even in Zito's consideration initially. After they signed R-Dub, they instantly became one of his top choices.

 

I expect the money to be about even in the end. Then it comes down to Zito's aspirations - the pressure but greater WS shot in Flushing, or the less-stressful, less likely shot in Arlington

 

So, an end to the "24-hour" projection. Looks like we'll all have to wait until at least mid-week next. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna have an ulcer by then

[laserbomb]

Is that purely a hunch, Molitor? I always want to throw around bold statements like that, but never really have anything to base them on. I think a 600-post thread called "Suppan to Milwaukee!!! 4y/$45M" would make a lot of weekends, though, and nothing wrong with riding the gut feeling.

 

I agree that front-loading would be more helpful to the structure of the roster than back-loading, and along the same lines of my last post, if any ace wouldn't care that the #4 starter makes so much more than him, it might be Sheets.

 

It's hard for me to see how Suppan and Zito are related. I don't like Zito that much and would rather have Suppan for the value, but I think enough teams put Zito in a class of his own. How could a 6 yr, hundred million dollar deal do anything to slot Suppan? And the other way, the salaries will be far enough apart that unless Suppan pulls in $14M average from someone, it won't affect him. If anything, Zito should wait for Suppan to sign, but I don't see how Suppan waiting could help him much. I get the waiting, next-best-thing thing, but can't see the Mets or Rangers saying, "okay, Jeff Suppan, here's $16 million a year, you had a good couple months for the 82-game winning world champs, and our fans will love your name." Although maybe that'd be better than nothing for Texas.

 

Also, I don't think it cheapens the idea of signing Suppan for me to think that Sheets, Capuano, and Bush will all have better years than him. It's be one thing to get upset about the salary for that kind of year, but I'd be happy to pay a 4th starter $11M if that's what the weird, backward system calls for.

 

Edit, I get you on the numbers and how the opening day spots don't mean much. I guess I'm thinking about how Bush ended the year as #3 for practical purposes if it mattered, after starting as the #5.

[TooLiveBrew]

Yea, your note about Bush just reinforces my point even more.

 

Suppan & Zito are "related" because nearly everyone scrutinizing the FA market professionally (or allegedly so) has drawn the corellation. Soup is widely regarded as the next-best pitcher available after Zito - thought of as at least slightly better than Lilly/Meche, and not up to the Zito slot.

 

I agree that this doesn't seem to make a ton of sense, but it's what has been reported, after talking to Front Offices and agents, so I tend to trust it.

 

But here's to hoping I'm proved wrong, and Soup is brought onboard by early next week!