Brewers talking with Jeff Suppan

[monty57]

Just about everything that could be discussed here has been gone over, so I'd just like to add a couple of things:

 

1) If Sheets continues to get injured, he seems to be the type that wood sign a Kerry Wood type of deal. He seems to be the type that would feel that he disappointed the Brewers by not living up to the deal, and would do a one-year deal at a discount. He absolutely does not seem like the type that would complain that someone else has a better contract.

 

2) Players don't seem to want to do "declining salary" contracts, unless you count a signing bonus. Has anyone in history ever singed a deal that pays them less salary each year? I'd think the more likely case would be to sign him to something like a 4-year $30MM ($6MM in 2007, 7MM in 2008, 8MM in 2009, 9MM in 2010) or so yearly salary with a huge signing bonus ($10MM or so to get it to a $40MM total). If the Brewers do have excess cash this season due to all the pre-arby players, they may be able to do something like this, while keeping room in their future budgets for the escalation of the young players' salaries. This would also help them to trade him in a few years (if they should choose), as a $17MM two-year deal will probably be very low for a veteran starter in 2008.

 

While salary and worrying about the future ability to sign Weeks, Fielder, etc do concern me, I feel that Suppan would help the Brewers compete over the next few seasons, and therefore would like to see him sign with the Brewers. I trust that Melvin and Mark A have a better grasp on managing a team for the present and the future than some of the past GMs and Selig had, so I don't think Suppan's signing would come at the expense of today's pre-arby players.

[brewmann04]

It a good Move IF get done being a brewer fan i am not holding my breath though on this signing

[Tisko]

Yea, the dream of getting Suppan for 4yrs/14mil was amazing, but then I woke up to reality realizing that most likely the 1 would be replaced by another 4.

[BritInWI]

Apologies if anyone else here has already voiced this speculation, but it seems like this is a lot of money for Suppan. More than he could have expected before the FA season started.

 

So why hasn't he signed somewhere?

 

It seems to me that his agent has him waiting for Zito to sign. One of the teams at the forefront of talks with Zito is the Mets. The Mets have also been linked with Suppan if they don't get Zito and appear willing to throw around a large sum of money for a starting pitcher.

 

So it makes sense for his agent to drag things out, hoping Zito will make a decision before Suppan gets tired of waiting. If the Mets don't get Zito, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see them top the Brewers' offer (assuming there is one).

 

None of this makes me optimistic about the Brewers' chances of bringing Suppan in. If the Mets get Zito, perhaps one of the losers for his services decides to throw money at Suppan (as the next best available pitcher - not counting Clemens). If the Mets don't get Zito, it's very likely they'll push hard for Suppan, as they've already expressed interest. The best chance the Brewers have may be that Suppan gets tired of waiting and/or playing second fiddle to the Zito in the Mets' affections and decides that he wants to sign before the holidays...

[reillymcshane]

I don't think signing Suppan should be significantly influenced by our future signability of Sheets.

 

If Sheets goes and out and pitches Cy Young award-like, then he'll be ready to command $20 million a year after 2008.

 

If Sheets pitches well - say mid-3.00 ERA, stays healthy, he'll be looking at $16-17 million a year, like Schmidt and Zito are getting this year. Perhaps more if revenues keep going wacky.

 

Either way, the Crew will have to think long and hard about paying him that kind of scratch, no matter what our payroll is. And if you start talking 6-7 year deals, that's tough to accept.

 

Still, front loading a deal for a guy like Suppan would help. If he's making $8 million or something like that in 2009 and 2010, he can be dealt easier if necessary, or isn't as much of a burden if you keep him on staff.

 

Finally, I'd argue that the best way to keep Sheets past 2008 is to have this team kicking butt and winning, and looking like it will win for the next few years. If Suppan helps get us there, do it. I'm a great believer in depth. I think the team is doing better this year (bullpen scares me, however).

EDIT: fixed spelling

[dpapo]

The latest information about the Brewers possible interest in Suppan. Melvin still hasn't made a decision on whether or not he will make an offer to Suppan, however we should know in a day or two what the Brewers are going to do. From the Milwaukee Journel Sentinel,

 

"Milwaukee Brewers general manager Doug Melvin said Monday he was still mulling whether to make a specific contract offer to free agent pitcher Jeff Suppan this week.

 

"I'd say it's a possibility," said Melvin. "I haven't done anything yet. We're still discussing it and looking into it."

 

In what has been a wild and crazy winter of spending on free agents, Melvin realizes the stakes were raised for pitchers, even those with average credentials. Suppan, who will be 32 on Jan. 2, is coming off three successful seasons (44-26 record) and was named most valuable player for St. Louis in the 2006 National League Championship Series against New York, giving him leverage in negotiations.

 

The Cardinals reportedly won't go beyond three years to keep Suppan, making it likely he will go elsewhere. He supposedly has a four-year offer on the table from one of several suitors, including the Mets, Colorado, Houston, San Francisco, Pittsburgh and Kansas City.

 

Suppan's agent, Scott Leventhal, told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch last week that he didn't anticipate agreeing to a contract until Barry Zito, the top pitcher on the market, signs a deal. But Melvin said Leventhal hadn't told him that during their preliminary discussions.

 

The going rate for most of the established starting pitchers on the market this year has been in the $8 million to $11 million range per season. Melvin wouldn't say how many years he would be willing to go in an offer to Suppan, who has a history of good health and durability.

 

"That's one of the things we're looking at," said Melvin, who has one spot to fill in his starting rotation. "There are a lot of things that go into it. I'd say I'm a day or so away from making that decision."

 

Suppan was 12-7 with a 4.12 ERA in 32 starts for the Cardinals last season. He allowed one run in 15 innings in two starts against the Mets in the NLCS, including the decisive Game 7.

 

Suppan is 5-0 with a 1.76 ERA in seven career starts at Miller Park.

 

www.jsonline.com/story/in...?id=543258

[theavrock]

I think that's a pretty decent point. Although money talks so does winning. The other thing signing a solid starter like Suppan is open up possibilities for trading Mench and Jenks for bullpen arms instead of starters.

 

If we signed Suppan the team looks to be solid offensively, not amazing but solid. The starting rotation would look to be the best in the division and one of the tops in the NL.

 

The bullpen, however, still looks shaky and it would not suprise me at all if DM immediately had something in the works to deal either one or both Jenkins and Mench for some proven bullpen arms.

 

If DM can solidify the bullpen then I see a very solid all around team that has some question marks with the young guys but also a lot of upside to them as well.

[AJAY]

I am surprised the Brewers are still in the decision making phase. I was under the impression that they had already decided they were going after Suppan. I am a little concerned about the delay just because I think you have to be aggressive and make the guy feel really wanted. I know it's a lot of money, but I hope they move quickly one way or the other.

[robfuhr]

I think Players would actually prefer money earlier in the contract, while teams prefer to pay it at the end...Teams want the escalating salaries during a contract due to the time value of money.....Players like signing bonuses or any reason to get up front money...while teams like to defer money...because a million dollars today will be 1.4 million in 5 years if invested correctly....

[1992casey]

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I am surprised the Brewers are still in the decision making phase. I was under the impression that they had already decided they were going after Suppan

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I wouldn't get my undies in a bunch. In one article, Doug came right out and said that he didn't want to say too much. For all we know, he's lying. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

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The other thing signing a solid starter like Suppan is open up possibilities for trading Mench and Jenks for bullpen arms instead of starters.

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I'll even go a step further. If Suppan is signed, Melvin can probably look to deal Jenkins or Mench for anything his heart desires. With a starter acquired through free agency, he'll have the luxury of looking for the best available return. If that return isn't bullpen help, he could go for prospects.

[TooLiveBrew]

Quote:

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I am surprised the Brewers are still in the decision making phase. I was under the impression that they had already decided they were going after Suppan. I am a little concerned about the delay just because I think you have to be aggressive and make the guy feel really wanted. I know it's a lot of money, but I hope they move quickly one way or the other.

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AJAY, IMO, this is Melvin reacting to the "We're waiting for Barry Zito to sign" comments from Soup's agent. The reason for the wait is that if NYM do not sign Zito, they are reported to want Suppan next. This will not drive his price up that much more, perhaps some, but it does leave more time for bidding & posturing.

 

That's exactly how I see this from Doug. Even if it's not intentional, he has had enough time to take a step back and review the long-term & short term plusses & minuses of signing Suppan. So while I agree that it's much better to err on the side of aggressiveness, I think the time-frame is 100% the player's doing.

 

Suppan wants to wait, and that's cool. Melvin, on the other hand, is benefitting from and using the extra time to see what his total range of options is. And I like that so much about him!

 

(Edit: fixed broken code --1992casey)

[DHonks]

I still envision Suppan signing before Christmas. That means Friday is the day it needs to be done by. I guess maybe not signing, but agreeing to basic terms by then. It would help settle things for him and his family for the holidays, as little usually happens from Christmas through new years.

[patrickgpe]

While it still would make more sense for him to sign with the Giants to replace the lost of Schmidt, I would be estasitc to sign him, and I wouldnt care if sheets feelings are hurt, He will get his when he is a FA. Suppan may be one of the biggest FA signings in team history and would signifiy others believe the team is on the right track.

[mls4]

"...I'm almost certain that professional athletes file in every state where they play and 'earn income.'"

 

Yes it depends on the state's laws, but athletes are subject to most states' "entertainer tax" rules in which they must pay state taxes in proportion to the number of games or events they perform in that state. I have seen this in preparing a tax return for a professional hockey player.

[Never Outhustled]

I don't think signing Suppan should be significantly influenced by our future signability of Sheets.

 

I think it makes a huge impact on our future signability of all are players. If they sign Suppan and the team improves, the team makes more $$ and that will increase future budgets. If the team takes doesn't improve this year, it could cripple, or at least hinder the team financially in the future.

[Invader3K]

Just get it done, Doug.

 

I don't see how anyone could feel Sheets might be jealous. If anything, it would show him this team is trying to help him win, and take some pressure off of him to boot.

[brewmann04]

doug comments in the journal don"t sound impressive to me.

[JohnBriggs12]

I only wish Melvin would have done as much pondering over signing an aged backup infielder as he is doing over a quality starter.

 

My guess is it doesn't get done.

[trwi7]

If Brewers management is worried how Sheets feels if he gets paid less than Suppan and if that is a reason that they may decide not to pursue him then I have a HUGE problem with Brewers management.

[Big Reed]

I would think not signing Suppan would create a bigger effect on whether the brewers sign Sheets or he decides to walk. The brewers have not really been a big player in the free agent market. Our new owner Mr a is already getting a bad rap of putting the bottom line and profits ahead of winning. if melvin doesn't go out and sign Suppan, what does that say about he brewers' real intentions? it tells me nothing has really changed, and that $$$$$$ profit is still the driving factor.

 

players like Sheets will realize this. neither he or his agent is dumb. When a guy like Sheets sees we don't want to go out and acquire a quality pitcher, and that we expect to win with rookies and second and third year players, he's going to want out. At the end of sheets' contract, he's going to want to go after one more big contract, and he's going to want to sign with a winner! No matter if the brewers sign Suppan or not, Sheets is going to ask for $15-20 million. And there will be teams offering him that much. if the brewers think if they sign Suppan they won't be able to resign their other players like sheets, then they need to re-evaluate if they want to remain a major league team. If you can't afford to pay your players the market rate, you need to get out of the market. if your current expenditures are based on wha t your future limitations will be, then you don't have enough money to play the game in the first place. if you can't afford to risk losing money, then you shouldn't play the game. the Brewers are a baseball team- not a mutual fund. Perhaps somebody should inform MR A baseball teams are not supposed to be profit producing investments. perhaps, he should have done some research before buying the team on what the money expectations and requirements would be. A payroll of $60-70 million in 2007 is no longer considered to be very big.

[davego]

would 4 years @ $45 million get it done? What about a option year added on?

[trwi7]

Quote:

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would 4 years @ $45 million get it done? What about a option year added on?

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I would hope so. 3 years $47 million got it done for Schmidt who imo is a much better pitcher than Suppan.

 

I may go 4/50 though since we will most likely have to overpay to get him here.

[Terok Balefire]

Don't you think you are being a little dramatic Big Reed? Don't kid yourself, every owner is in it for the bottomline and they aren't going to continually lose money on an investment. How many teams are actually big players on the free agent market? It doesn't seem to be very many because it seems like every team's fans complain about their offseason and how their team needs to make a "statement." These issues are the oldest in the book so I guess I just don't understand why they are continually brought up. The Twins, A's, and Marlins have done just fine with never really touching the free agent market, the Brewers can do just fine as well and I certainly hope it doesn't rely on whether they sign Suppan.

[strawbossisevil]

Quote:

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Our new owner Mr a is already getting a bad rap of putting the bottom line and profits ahead of winning.

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Come on Reed. That is a pretty outlandish statement. Yeah, our money grubbing owner has only raised payroll levels to all time high levels. He's only doubled the payroll since he's taken over the organization. What a greedy pig. Let's cook him on a spit!

 

I don't know who you claim is "giving him a bad rap" other than the unrealistic few on this site who somehow thought Milwaukee could afford a Zito or a Soriano. Mr A is entitled to his cut of the pie, and I'm pretty sure that he's not tucking away any more than any other owner does.

[yoyomayoma]

The latest from Rotoworld:

 

The Cardinals' only offer to keep free agent Jeff Suppan was for less than $20 million over three years.

 

Jeff Weaver is a better bet than Suppan to stay in St. Louis. The Brewers and Giants are the leading candidates for Suppan right now. If the Blue Jays are interested, they've been keeping it quiet lately.