Braun's comments: Latest: Braun Issues Statement, "Wasn't trying to call anybody out"

[Invader3K]

I guess I'm partly dumbfounded by some of the anti-Braun sentiment on this board. This is a special kind of player that can carry our team for the next several years. I think all the comments about him being "arrogant" and "cocky" are just way overblown. Especially compared to many other players around baseball. I also think what he actually said on Sunday was also overblown. While he maybe stepped over the line just a bit with his comments, I appreciate having a player who speaks his mind and doesn't just use "athletespeak", like I said before.

 

Having said that, while I think Melvin had a right to speak back against what Braun said, I don't think it was a smart thing to do. He's only going to alienate the fan base (and maybe even the owner) against himself with those kinds of statements, especially directed toward one of the most popular players on the team. This is something that should have been handled in private. I hope, like others have suggested, maybe Mr. Attanasio can step in and put an end to this before it spirals into something bigger.

[fondybrewfan]

This is getting kind of ridiculous, Braun said his thing in the heat of the moment after a tough series in Cehicago. Melvin was obvioulsy building up his anger for a full day prior to spewing his guts to TH.

 

In general I think it is a terrible idea to rip on your best player, especialyl one that is here for 6 more years. Melvin seemed to take it as an insult to his work ethic and his people's worth ethic and I am sure Braun didn't intend it to be that way.

 

Instead of railing against Braun in the media I wonder if Doug even made an attempt to reconcile with Braun before he decided to completely embarras the Brewers organization evn further.

 

I didn't mind Braun's comments at the time, I appreciated the honesty, and it was immediately after a really bad series. Braun is known for speaking up when the team is struggling. I guess you could say Melvin was also being honest but he went way over the top IMO.

 

I agree with a post earlier in the thread where this seems to have Favre/TT potential. A little different scenario but also similar. Atleast TT in that case didn't say anything in public to demean the face of the Packers franchise like Melvin just demeaned the face of the Brewers franchise.

 

I am going to guess that 90% of fans will side with Braun simply because everyone and their grandma knows that he was telling the truth. Most people aren't going to care if he hurt Melvin's feelings. It just seems like Doug doesn't even remotely like Braun at all, and maybe Braun dislikes Melvin. Conversations like these generally don'y play out in the media if the two parties actually respect and like each other.

[Diskono]

I see how the comments about the shadows could be perceived as "whining", but there's certainly merit if it's a "safety issue", as Braun alluded to. I have no idea if Braun was exaggerating or, if he was, to what extent, but it's fair to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Miller Park has been open for a decent amout of time now. The shadows have never once been a called safety hazard until the Brewers lose a few daytime home games in a row. Its whining, thats all

 

I think I'll side with Melvin in this. His comments were hilarious, Braun's comments are just boring and Captiain Obvious-ish. Still think they should make Braun a player-coach (or perhaps a deputy manager!), though. Then he can say "yeah our pitching wasn't very good today" and nobody would care, because coaches are supposed to say stuff like that.

[bobskube]

Only one game of Cub Series IGT goes longer than this stupid stuff.

 

Now I know why reality TV is such a big hit. You are feeding Tom Haudricourt far too many smiles.

[1992casey]

Only one game of Cub Series IGT goes longer than this stupid stuff.

 

This is a pretty lousy thread that doesn't represent the site or its members very well, but let's refrain from calling it's content "stupid." A lot of the discussion seems to be much uglier than the actual situation at hand.

 

It seems to me that the topic at hand would be, "Was it appropriate for Ryan to have said what he said, and was it appropriate for Doug to respond as he did?" Secondary topics would be the way the reporters handled it. I'm not sure that broadening the topic to the extent that we are, e.g. rehashing Melvin's entire career as Brewer GM, is all that necessary.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Amidst all the comments of "he was just telling the truth" and "saying what all the fans already know" and "he's saying what everyone in the clubhouse was feeling", I have a question.

 

Does Brauns' comment serve a purpose? Did Doug Melvin NOT know before Braun cracked open his piehole that the rotation is a mess right now?

 

I imagine if "every fan knows we need a starter" then Doug Melvin, Gord Ash, or at least *someone* in the front office has been keeping tabs on the box scores to see how the starters are faring.

 

Just because something is true doesn't mean it needs to be said.

 

Melvin shouldn't have responded the way he did, that's a given, but we must look at cause and effect here. If Braun doesn't start this crap storm with a quote that didn't need to be put out there in the first place, there's nothing for Melvin to respond to.

 

And as a side note, if I'm Doug Melvin, I'd immediately cease conversation with Tom H.

[Thurston Fluff]

it does not bode well for Melvin's longevity as GM. All-Star player signed long-term generally wins out over the GM that the owner inherited.

 

I think a GM who has brought two franchises back from the abyss has as much if not more pull than one player no matter how good he is. If you want to see what the difference is between good GM's and bad ones look no further than Pittsburgh. Basketball and Hockey are players first leagues. Football is a coaches league quite often you see very talented players moved because he couldn't get along with the coaches rarely do you see coaches go because they don't get along with one player regardless of who he is. Baseball is a GM league. They are by far the most important person in the organization. The one who is absolutely necessary to build a winning team for any mid or small market team.

 

Everybody not stuck in a cave knew the Brewers did not have enough pitching to stay in the race so barring an injury the Brewers were really going to be in a rough spot.

 

Every body also thought the Brewers only had a shot at the wildcard because the Cubs would run away with the division as well.

 

Melvin has lived off of Jack Zs success. Just look at the roster and the players he actually has brought in. If it were not for Jack Z, Melvin would have been gone long ago.

 

Jack Z helped him in Texas? This is the second organization Melvin built from bottom up no the first.

As for Melvin going public I usually agree it should be kept private. In this particular instance I think it needed to be done. Braun kind of needs to see what it's like to be on the other end of the public criticism. Maybe he learns what it's like to be called out publicly and stops making inappropriate comments about other players. Melvin did reference this was not the first time Braun made public comments. If Braun can't handle it he shouldn't dish it out.

 

W/O free agency, he would've went nowhere in Texas.

 

The teams that won the division were almost totally built form within. The A-Rod deal often overshadows that fact but when Melvin got there the team was owned by Bush, not Hicks, and was not a free spending team. Add in what he's done while here and it is pretty easy to see Melvin is far more than just a lucky GM riding the coattails of Jack Z.

 

TooLiveBrew wrote: I don't think it's reasonable to start discussing Melvin like all he goes out to do in deals is get rental players & turn them into draft picks.

 

That's all he's done to this point, and that appears to be most likely scenario again this season.

 

Coco and Lee were both in the organization for more than a year but if you want to add them to the rental pile I can at least understand the argument. I don't see any way you can call Cappuano, Villanueva, McClung or Bush rentals since they have all been here multiple years and are still here.

[Fatter than Joey]

His comments were hilarious, Braun's comments are just boring and Captiain Obvious-ish. Still think they should make Braun a player-coach (or perhaps a deputy manager!)

 

While DM's comments may have generated some chuckles with his staff -- I am almost certain they will do nothing but fan the fire with Braun, and probably most of the Brewers.

 

My guess, is that right or wrong -- Braun feels like his career ~.950 OPS and the awards he has won, is probably a large reason DM is still employed by the Brewers.

 

I do think this could get ugly like it did with the Packers -- but I think unlike Favre, at this point in his career, Braun is going to carry a LOT more weight in the clubhouse.

 

Calling Braun a "deputy" in the press, is a pretty childish and inflamatory thing to do.

 

I suspect this upcoming series will be huge -- if we go 2-1, 3-0 over the Cards, this will probably be forgotten -- if we get swept, and are 4 GB after the series, the Yost could hit the fan.

[MJLiverock]

I just went back and read Braun's comments regarding making a move and noticed again he said, (paraphrashing) "they pitched better than we did and swung the bats better than we did." So its not like he placed the blame only on the pitchers and he mentioned making the team better as a whole not just the pitching staff or just the offense. I just don't get why undies get all bunched up over these comments, especially since the comments on here make it seem like he called out individual pitchers and praised the offense. The way people defend the pitching staff you would think their dad played for them and the pitchers psyche is that of a fragile china doll.

[Pudster13]

Let's all calm down and be rational about this whole thing for a second.

 

(long dramatic pause)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

THIS IS ALL TOM HAUDRICOURTS FAULT!

 

LET'S GET HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

http://www.espnmilwaukee.com/includes/news_items/19/124/haudricourt.jpg

[lcbj68c]

I like DM, but perhaps had he been doing his job and not sitting on his hands still Ryan wouldn't have had to pop off. I don't buy this BS about there not being alot available. Almost EVERYONE is available for the right price. You just have to be willing to pay it, and apparently by DM saying he's not trading Escobar or Gamel, he's not willing to pay the price. You can't have it both ways Doug. ~~BrewCrewin07

 

Exactly how I feel. The infield is loaded with options. Move your surplus to cover the defiencies. Hall, Gamel, McGehee, Counsell, Irribarren, Escobar, Weeks, Hardy, Heether, Lawrie, Fielder. All these certainly have some form of trade value, varying in different ranges. All of them have the potential to be on the 2010 or 2011 roster. That would seem like quite a logjam. Certainly something could be done down the road, but why sacrifice a decent shot in 2009 for some coulds, perhaps, or maybe in 2012? Again, adding a #4 type in Looper when you had 3 other #4-5 types in Feb of 2009 is why I say Melvin was sitting on his hands. I relate it to being the runt of the wolf pack. You run in and get the scraps and pick the bones after the big dogs finish their feast. That is what Melvin did in the offseason when he signed Braden Looper. Now, you are hungry and the long summer is half over and you have no meat on your own bones. You are struggling to survive because you waited back so you could get scraps? It's time to be a hunter, or you can face being a runt for a very long time. This franchise is hungry, the fan base is hungry, the players that have invested their careers in your organization (Ryan Braun) are hungry. They're howling Doug. Throw them more than a used bone with fat deposits (Braden Looper). Use that infield depth and go get get a full lamb for harvest.

[sgtcluels]

Its hard to evaluate a GM objectively. Obviously there is a lot of good will to DM from some trades and the fact that we returned to respectability and hit that beloved playoffs last year. Everyone on the club wants to win (Except Suppan, I think he hates winning). So I guess we have to figure out our own way to objectively look at the club and our executives.

 

Being on the outside really makes it hard, it sounds like Jack Z was given complete control of the drafting, but was this the case? If it is, this could help us evaluate DM based on some kind of metric system. We can eliminate all the farm grown kids and just look at Free Agents and trades, perhaps using some kind of existing metric (WAR and Salary estimator based on WAR) vs. actual cost to see if DM has actually performed better or worse then we think.`

[sheethead]

I suspect this upcoming series will be huge -- if we go 2-1, 3-0 over the Cards, this will probably be forgotten -- if we get swept, and are 4 GB after the series, the Yost could hit the fan.

 

I think this all depends on how far Braun feels like going to defend his comments. He can squash this immediately at the ballpark today by retracting all or parts of his comments, and issue Doug some type of apology. Braun is on serve here, its his move. Will he squash it, or will he end up knee high in Yost? P.S. I see at least three mods letting me know about some rule existing that bans the use of Yost as anything other than the last name of the Brewers previous manager. Section 9075, article Q clearly states...

[Baldkin]

The point isn't what he said about the series.

 

The point is he's telling the front office what needs to be done, and he's also criticized the scouting department publicly.

 

When you rail on your own organization, that does not need to be done through the press. If you have an issue -- with the stadium, the scouting reports, the contract of your #3 starter -- you take it up internally. You don't spout off to a reporter who can then twist your words to create controversy.

[RayKingsForemanGrill]

I don't know, really, how anyone can side with one guy over the other. Both of the comments were a: obvious and b: uncalled for. I blame DM less, because he was defending his staff after a star player threw it under the bus. But neither of these guys should be applauded for this.

 

Someone else said it better earlier by saying "no player is above the organization". Everyone should keep it out of the press. While we may not agree with every move DM makes, I don't know how anyone can say that he hasn't had the best interest of the organization in mind 99 percent of the time. And Braun's importance to the team is obvious.

 

Both of these guys should be above this.

[shelmark]

Invader,

 

I don't think the anti-Braun sentiment on this board has anything to do with his talent. Where do you see that? So what if he can carry the team for the next several years. Being a great talent does not give you the right to make negative comments about the pitching staff to the MEDIA. I do not appreciate a player that speaks his mind. I would much rather hear 'athletespeak' or whatever that is because issues on a baseball team should not be played out in the media. It serves no purpose and going to the media with problems that everyone knows exists is not an example of leadership. I also believe there are not a handful of players more cocky than Braun. He makes me cringe with the things he does, but since he is a Brewer we accept it as just being competitive. I do agree with you that what Melvin did was not smart, as he too used the media to air dirty laundry. What are these people thinking?

[MickeyDavis]

Where's Mark A in all of this?

He's been the invisible man all season. He's been at Miller Park the least amount of time since he took over. I guess his regular job needs his attention more this year than in the past.

[Pudster13]

Scott Podsednik

 

Doug Davis

 

Derrick Turnbow (the good one)

 

Brian Shouse

 

Casey McGehee

 

Todd Coffey

 

 

This is not even a complete list of key role players that Doug Melvin has plucked off the scrap heap. I think it's fair to say he's been doing a pretty good job.

[naivin]

And as a side note, if I'm Doug Melvin, I'd immediately cease conversation with Tom H.

That's pretty silly. Why? To say that assumes that DM thought his comments were what, off the record? Is that what you are implying? There is no way DM didn't know his commenst were going to end up in the paper. If he didn't want them printed, he shouldn't have said anything. He did want them printed and that's why he said what he said.

 

Tom Hardiricourt didn't do anything but his job.

[JUNT4twan]

The problem is that Ryan is throwing the whole team, besides the position players, under the bus in the media, which is how most modest fans follow the team. The front office, the scouts, the pitching; he ripped all of them in one soundbyte. To fans that aren't knowledgeably in-depth of the Brewers, which is the majority of the fan base, it paints all these players and officers in a bad light. I don't care who you are, you should never step on the toes of your teammates/bosses, it should be the last resort.

 

I could see it if DM has had a long track record of not doing squat to help the team, but that's not the case. Whether Jack Z is largely responsible for the draft successes, DM does his homework on these players as well as gives the green light. During these good times, who's been the GM? So, how can someone tell this GM to do his job when he's the most/second-most responsible for breaking a 26 year playoff drought for a franchise that's been in the dumps for years?

 

It's OK for Braun to do his usual rant, but this time he crossed the line too far and went way too deep in the blame game.

[sgtcluels]

Scott Podsednik Doug Davis Derrick Turnbow (the good one) Brian Shouse Casey McGehee Todd Coffey

Bill Halls contract, Jeff Suppans contract, Eric Gagne, Kevin Mench, Greg Aquino, Julian Tavares, Johnny Estrada, Vargas... for every win I can give you a loss.

 

Once again, if we want to evaluate a GM, then we need to some how come up with metrics to evaluate his total performance.

[DuWayne Steurer]

And as a side note, if I'm Doug Melvin, I'd immediately cease conversation with Tom H.

That's pretty silly. Why? To say that assumes that DM thought his comments were what, off the record? Is that what you are implying? There is no way DM didn't know his commenst were going to end up in the paper. If he didn't want them printed, he shouldn't have said anything. He did want them printed and that's why he said what he said.

 

Tom Hardiricourt didn't do anything but his job.

Sorry, I'm not much one for putting my comments in blue to indicate sarcasm. I should have done a better job with indicating the meaning of that lest sentence.

[Invader3K]

Once again, if we want to evaluate a GM, then we need to some how come up with metrics to evaluate his total performance.

 

I think this is kind of what 1992casey was saying didn't really belong in this thread. Not every thread has to turn into some kind of metric evaluation. Also, Braun didn't really "rip" on anyone. He didn't say "Doug Melvin hasn't done his job and is sitting on his hands, fire him", like some of you are implying. He even acknowledged that making a trade would be very difficult right now.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

The only thing I get out of all of this is that TH is now ready for that big job with the New York Post...congrats Tom, enjoy the big city.

 

Braun is a stud and really stated the obvious. TH tweaked DM by trying to read between the lines on his comments and blew it out of proportion. DM is probably a little on edge too right now because he wants to do a deal as bad as Braun does, but realizes they just aren't out there or the price is too high. Heck, I'd like them to get a starter too, but those deals just don't exist right now at the right price. It hurts, but unfortunately the appropriate strategy is to sit tight, wait for a deal to emerge or for Bush to come back, Parra to find his brain or a couple of the MIA sluggers to get cooking. The schedule gets easier for awhile after the break. Hopefully by the time they hit crunch time in September, they get hot.

 

Jack Z was great and DM has done a great job too. Nobody's perfect and nobody is flying this ship solo. There are plenty of people behind the scenes that are still there responsible for drafting Yo, Braun, Fielder, etc...

[Pudster13]

If you read Haudricourt's article, you also realize that Tom took a few of Braun's quotes from the McCalvy article out of context, as to sensationalize his article.

 

Haudricourt Article Link

 

Braun's job is to hit the baseball, and be a respectful teammate.

 

Melvin's job is to GM the Milwaukee Brewers, and not make comments about players to the media.

 

Haurdricourt's job is to sell newspapers, and be comfortable with how much of an asinine tool that he appears to be.

 

 

 

 

Looks like Tom is the only one doing his job.