Braun's comments: Latest: Braun Issues Statement, "Wasn't trying to call anybody out"

[brewblue1]

When Fan Forum Etiquette was revised this past spring, mods considered adding a rule about name-calling. We refrained, in part because an occasional reference like "Meltdown Bradley" can be kind of fun.

 

"Sewers" is the kind of thing we had in mind. Let's avoid stuff like that.

 

Um, ok.

 

Will follow the "rules" because I've been asked, but am a little stunned that the harmless name was what alarmed everyone here. I just think it's overly pc to not be allowed to joke about the team that I root for.

 

So as to stay on topic, I do recall Braunie also calling out the offense in his latest comments, as well. The Cubs out played the Crew all weekend. He said that. But, clearly, the offense is not the major problem with this team. Another lefty bat would be nice, but the starting pitching has been very deficient. I think Braun has every right to try to fire up the team. If the clubhouse becomes split up by these comments, then this team doesn't deserve to go to the playoffs. Every team faces some kind of adversity over the course of a season. It's the ones that stay together, despite it, that are successful.

[snyttri]

I think Braun's comment shows he is a little bit out of control as he sees the playoffs slipping away. Otherwise he would have expressed his thoughts more politically as he usually does. Still it might have a positive affect like last year's comment as long as the criticism is rare. He is supposedly the team leader and there may be some value to someone giving voice to the frustration the team is feeling. Like the fans the team probably feels they could use some help. As has been pointed out, however, there may be no good trades available. I think DM and Mark A are capable of withstanding the pressure from Braun.

[SeriesFinale]

Playoffs slipping away? It's early July and the Brewers are 1 game back of a playoff spot.

[JustABitOutside]

I am suggesting patience in this situation for not only Brewer fans, but Ryan as well. It may be Ryan's opinion, and fans as well, but it may make the Brewers seem desperate, which is not a good position to be in for a team possibly trying negotiating a trade.

 

With the recent demotion of Parra and Bush's injury, the staff has two temporary replacements it seems for the time being. Parra looks on track in AAA and Bush will be back after the All-Star game. Making a move could be detrimental to a small market team that already has given up a lot of minor league talent in the past 2 years. With a lack of an obvious player that differentiates this team, I don't think a move is the wise thing to do. Cost will be high, with so many teams with needs, and so few teams out of the playoff race.

[BADGERJOBOB]

I probably don't make any moves this year, buy or sell, unless we fleece another club.

Huh? If you believe the Brewers are not capable of going to the playoffs, why would you not sell? Cameron, Hoffman, Hardy, Suppan, Kendall, Hall, Counsell are all guys that would seem to have no place in the Brewers future. Not saying all of those guys have value (some have negative value), but some most certainly do and to not try to use that to fortify the future would be kinda silly.

 

Huh? Why give players away just to give them away? I didn't say I wouldn't sell under any conditions. The way this team is presently constructed, making the playoffs seems like a longshot but there is also a small chance this team gets so smoking hot that they squeak in the playoffs. To be honest, the Brewers would not get anything worthwhile for Suppan, Kendall, Hall or Counsell. Hardy's value might be too low to move at this point in time and I don't think Cameron would net us a decent prospect. Hoffman maybe if a star closer goes down.

[Thurston Fluff]

Steveo made a good comment about how Braun was pointing fingers this time around where last season he pretty much called out the whole team, himself included. Saying we are not getting good enough starting pitching is calling out at most five players. So far this year the offense has been as much a problem as the starting pitching. They are so inconsistent that their runs total isn't indicative of how much they actually contribute to total wins.

I think the other thing Braun should look at is where the money is being spent on this team. Hardy is making a lot of money to hit at the rate he is. Same with Hall and Hart. If we had the money tied up in under productive offensive players we would have the money to spend on pitchers. Burns and his minimum wage contract is not the problem. It's players making so much and producing so little that makes Burns presence on the roster necessary

[logan82]

I still find it really amusing that people think that some players comments somehow fire up a team. After the Boston series last year, we played Pittsburgh, Washington, Houston, Arizona and Atlanta. Not exactly the elite teams in baseball. I have to say I am a little surprised that Braun didn't wait another week to say this so that we would be playing Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Washington and San Diego so that we could say he fired up the team again.

[JohnBriggs12]

Playoffs slipping away? It's early July and the Brewers are 1 game back of a playoff spot.

If I had a quarter for the number of time I could have said something close to that in the 40 years of Brewer existence, I'd probably have at least $2.50. There's been many a Brewer team that ultimately ended up sub .500 that were right there in early July going way back to 1974 when on July 16th, the Brewers were 2 games back in the AL East and 1975 when they were tied for the lead on July 5th. Those teams finished a combined 36 games under .500.

 

As recently as 2004. the Brewers were 1/2 game out of the WC on July 1st and finished the year 67-94.

[logan82]

JohnBriggs12 wrote:

As recently as 2004. the Brewers were 1/2 game out of the WC on July 1st and finished the year 67-94.

Now you are comparing a team that had little talent and was expected to have a losing season to a team that was thought of as a legitimate playoff contender at the start of the season. Apples and oranges dude.

[whizkid]

Pears and kumquats too. Even Billy "The Chinese Aviator" Martin knew those early 70s teams didn't have nearly enough talent to hang in there.

[804Sox]

Doesn't matter if it's true or not, whether the players should be tough enough to handle it or not, etc. The point is, as a leader on the team, Braun should not be calling out his teammates in front of the media. If he wants to do it in the locker room I have no problem. For some players that sort of thing can light a spark under them. Might not work for others. Either way, the media is nto the place for him to voice his opinions about his GM and teammates.

[The Truth]

I think the real window we have is the length of Prince Fielder's stay in Milwaukee, at least in terms of the immediate future. Players like him don't come around very often

I wonder what we could get in trade for Ryan Braun? Probably an incredible haul considering his contract and ability. And no, I am not putting this in Blue.

[naivin]

I wonder what we could get in trade for Ryan Braun? Probably an incredible haul considering his contract and ability. And no, I am not putting this in Blue.

Let's see...A losing record, a ticked off fan base, no more hometown discounts, mistrusting free agents, a wasted signing bonus...what a bad idea.

 

http://www.kevinfamous.com/Videos/billy%20madison.jpg

[JJHardy7]

I said this many times last year and early this year, but it does not matter that we did not trade away pitching prospects. The issue is we gave away prospects (trading chips) that we no longer have. Those "trading chips" could have been used to get a young pitcher...instead of a rent-a-player. We are at a point with position players where we really can't afford to trade away prospects without creating a hole somewhere.

 

That is why it was nice to have Laporta, because we could use him to trade for a position we could have used long term...but we no longer have that luxery.

 

We do have two players that we just drafted from that trade though...

[mkm13]

We do have two players that we just drafted from that trade though...

It is to early to count them as any sort of minor league depth...they have either not started playing yet or just started. The prospects we gave up had a much better chance of making the majors than 2 compensation picks.

[jjfanec]

We do have two players that we just drafted from that trade though...

It is to early to count them as any sort of minor league depth...they have either not started playing yet or just started. The prospects we gave up had a much better chance of making the majors than 2 compensation picks.

Have you looked at how the prospects we gave up are doing? Brantley is struggling mightily right now batting .255 with an OPS of .679. Bryson is out for the year with an arm injury. He could be special once he gets healthy. LaPorta is doing well. Now there is a chance all three of those guys make the majors but there is also a chance Bryson continues to have arm troubles, Brantley's limited upside (lack of power and questionable ability for CF) make him a 5th OF, while LaPorta has a good career. However, none of those guys were going to help us this year. And only LaPorta was probably going to help us next year as he could have battled Hart for a spot. The reality is CC got us to the playoffs, gave us more revenue to get guys this year and got us two picks in this years draft (I think Kentrail Davis and Maxwell Walla) who give add depth to our OF in the minors.

[snyttri]

I still find it really amusing that people think that some players comments somehow fire up a team. After the Boston series last year, we played Pittsburgh, Washington, Houston, Arizona and Atlanta. Not exactly the elite teams in baseball. I have to say I am a little surprised that Braun didn't wait another week to say this so that we would be playing Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Washington and San Diego so that we could say he fired up the team again.

Good point. You never know which psychological factors affect a team's play, but the Brewers probably would have been closer to a .500 team against the weak teams instead of the hottest team in baseball if they had not started playing better after the Boston series.

 

I didn't say the Brewers playoff chances were slipping away yet, but that that fear may have been reflected in Braun's statement. The end of the season isn't close but the last chance to add to the team is.

[PeaveyFury]

I stated a couple of weeks ago that DM seemingly sat on his hands this offseason and I still got a red mouth from the lashing I took. The best way for this "small market" team to build and compete is through off-season moves.

 

The Brewers signed two free agent pitchers for pretty good money this offseason, so I can't see how that can be considered 'sitting on his hands'.

[TheCrew07]

Have you looked at how the prospects we gave up are doing?

Yes, I've been watching them closely all year... the players we just drafted are irrelevant to the discussion, they are no closer than 2 years away at an absolute best case scenario. The prospects we gave we no longer have to trade, I think this is the issue that many here are missing. It's not that we traded the prospects away, we should have, we had a nice surplus of bats... but once they are gone we don't get them back. So we traded 3 arms to SD, and 2 bats and arm to cleveland, and we still don't have a bridge to our pitching talent in A+ and below. We're heavy 2 position players right now, Green looks to be a bit redundant (though I love his bat and he's LH) and we have a spare prospect catcher we could deal. Unfortunately the 2 of 3 teams the Brewers could match up well with already have young stud catchers in Baltimore and Atlanta, making a rental of Bedard out of Seattle the best we're probably going to do. Which stinks, because I really like Morrow and have for some time.

 

It's not about hording prospects as some continually like to spin it as, it's about using our limited resources in the best possible manner. Even if we rent Bedard for this season next off-season it will be the same song and dance. Only this time every one knows Escobar is ready and Hardy is a 1 year rental, Hardy never had more value than he had last off-season to the Brewers. We don't have enough prospect bullets left in the gun to pry away a young starter either.

 

Assuming we rent Bedard the total tally at minimum would be Thatcher, Inman, Garrison, LaPorta, Brantley, Bryson, Salome, and Green. No I don't consider Jackson a prospect and intentionally kept him off. We would have moved 8 trading chips for 1 playoff appearnce, maybe 2 (I really think this year is stretch the way things have unfolded), and we're still going to have the same hole in the rotation next season, and 3 holes the season after. I'm not going to debate the value of a playoff appearance, but for that many pieces it sure seems like we could have at least landed 1 long-term solution.

 

Maybe none of that 2010-2011 starting pitching crop will pan out....just as our starters in MILB haven't panned out for the eternity of time. Why is the 2011 crop any different?

We'll get 3 MLB SP out of Braddock, Butler, Rogers, Peralta, Scarpetta, Jeffress, Frederickson, Ordorizzi, Arnett, Rivas, Bowman, Watten, and Adams... which 3? No idea, but the sheer number of legit prospects gives us pretty decent odds, and those are guys that have ceilings as 3s and up, we have plenty back of the rotation depth as well.

[snyttri]

The Brewers signed two free agent pitchers for pretty good money this offseason, so I can't see how that can be considered 'sitting on his hands'.

 

They also paid big money to keep Cameron on the team which they didn't have to do.

[PeaveyFury]

The prospects we gave we no longer have to trade, I think this is the issue that many here are missing.

 

But with the seasons they're having, what value would they have brought back? Guys like Brantley have seen huge declines in their value.

[Crew2323]

The Brewers signed two free agent pitchers for pretty good money this offseason, so I can't see how that can be considered 'sitting on his hands'.

I think the frustration from those with this point of view, a sentiment that I share, is that Melvin did nothing to balance an all right-handed (minus Prince), all or nothing offense that was horrible when it needed to be at it's best. And this offense has proven again that they are very streaky. So while he signed an average starting pitcher and an iconic closer, he did next to nothing to improve the offense, or make it more consistent.

[trwi7]

I think it's safe to say Doug Melvin isn't the biggest Ryan Braun fan right now.

[TooLiveBrew]

They also paid big money to keep Cameron on the team which they didn't have to do.

 

You would prefer the Brewers had not retained one of the best CF in baseball? Cameron even at his 2009 salary is one of the best bang-for-your-buck players in the entire league, and exercising his option imo was a total no-brainer.

 

 

 

EDIT: From the JSOnline article trwi7 linked...

Melvin, who made the blockbuster trade for pitcher CC Sabathia at mid-season in 2008, took offense to the suggestion that he isn't looking under every rock for pitching help.

"We all work every day from 9 a.m. to midnight, and basically 12 months a year," said Melvin, referring to his baseball staff. "I'll be glad to have Ryan help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy.

"I don't know his motivation for saying it. It demoralizes the people in the organization at a time when we should be pulling together. It puts a bad taste in our mouths. That's a pretty strong statement.

"I understand that maybe he thinks it's taking a leadership role. I don't know if he's trying to tell me I'm not doing my job. We need to stick together as an organization. We're all trying to win."

Melvin said it wasn't appropriate for Braun to make unflattering comparisons between the Brewers' starting rotation and Chicago's, even with two spots in flux since the losses of Bush and Parra.

"I think he made a fundamental mistake," said Melvin. "I didn't hear our pitchers complaining when we lost a 1-0 game (to New York last week) or the 2-1 game in 10 innings in Chicago.

"They didn't say the hitters weren't doing their job. He's hitting in front of one of the best hitters (Prince Fielder) in the game."

Melvin said he already was upset about derogatory comments from Braun about the hitting conditions at Miller Park during day games, where shadows make it tough. Braun said players "hope for rain and clouds" so the retractable roof will be closed during day games there, and those comments got national play.

Melvin also mentioned comments he read from Braun about hitters not having scouting reports last week on San Francisco newcomer Ryan Sadowski, who shut them out for six innings in a 7-0 Giants victory. Melvin said the team had scouting reports on Sadowski, who pitched seven shutout innings against Houston in his next outing.

"I don't like criticizing players; it's out of character for me," said Melvin. "But I'm tired of it and I need to protect the people under us. Everybody's working as hard as they can to make this a winning organization.

"He's too talented a player to be doing this so early in his career. He just has to be careful about what he says."

Wow. Good for you, Doug.

[TheCrew07]

The prospects we gave we no longer have to trade, I think this is the issue that many here are missing.

 

But with the seasons they're having, what value would they have brought back? Guys like Brantley have seen huge declines in their value.

Why is their current season relevant to the conversation when the moves should have happened over the off-season or last season? The point is that once we give talent up, that's it, we don't have an unlimited pipeline of talent to trade away, so we have to spend them wisely. It's rather hypocritical for posters that wanted to keep Hardy and were in favor of the Sabathia deal to bemoan Melvin now for a lack of top of the rotation talent when we need to trade for it to acquire it.

 

I've said it before, and I still believe it to be true, most people are treating roster management like it is checkers... making one move at a time, piece by piece, looking for a king. Roster management is much more like chess, we need to be thinking 10 moves ahead because every piece you sacrifice you don't get back, and each move has an effect on every subsequent move. This chain of events was very predictable and obvious, it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.