Braun's comments: Latest: Braun Issues Statement, "Wasn't trying to call anybody out"

[southpaw121505]

I thought Braun's apology was just fine, it could've been more generic and shorter. I thought it was sincere

[PeaveyFury]

Again, adding a #4 type in Looper when you had 3 other #4-5 types in Feb of 2009 is why I say Melvin was sitting on his hands.

 

And just for the record, who were the other free agent pitchers that were better than 4-5 types that the Brewers should have signed?

[Invader3K]

The only big name out there was Lowe, and the Brewers weren't going to get him. Would have had to overpay, and he probably didn't want to come to Milwaukee anyway.

[Gobias Industries]

Well, hopefully this is the last we hear of it.

 

Braun is a great player and we're lucky to have him at the contract we do, so I could honestly care less if he's the biggest jerk in the entire world, as long as he continues to back it up with his play.

 

Are the people that get really riled up over this "cut from the same cloth" as the people that whine about the untucking of the t-shirts constantly? I wouldn't doubt it.

[logan82]

I can't believe how many people on this board seem to have a sheer hatred of Braun seemingly boiling under their skins.

 

How is not liking somebody's behavior "sheer hatred?"

[mtrebs]

...

 

Braun is a great player and we're lucky to have him at the contract we do, so I could honestly care less if he's the biggest jerk in the entire world, as long as he continues to back it up with his play.

 

...

Don't you mean you couldn't care less? :-)

[lcbj68c]

Again, adding a #4 type in Looper when you had 3 other #4-5 types in Feb of 2009 is why I say Melvin was sitting on his hands.

 

And just for the record, who were the other free agent pitchers that were better than 4-5 types that the Brewers should have signed?

A complete list of 2008 offseason free agents, not those necc better than Braden Looper, just the complete list.

Kris Benson PHI

A.J. Burnett TOR (may opt out)

Paul Byrd BOS

Ryan Dempster CHC

Jon Garland LAA

Tom Glavine ATL

Mike Hampton * ATL

Rich Harden * CHC

Orlando Hernandez NYM

Jason Jennings TEX

Randy Johnson ARZ

Esteban Loaiza CHW

Braden Looper STL

Derek Lowe LAD

Pedro Martinez NYM

Mike Mussina NYY

Jamie Moyer PHI

Mark Mulder * STL

Carl Pavano NYY

Brad Penny * LAD

Odalis Perez WAS

Oliver Perez NYM

Andy Pettitte NYY

Mark Prior SD

Horacio Ramirez CHW

C.C. Sabathia MIL

Ben Sheets MIL

John Smoltz * ATL

Julian Tavarez ATL

Steve Trachsel BAL

Brett Tomko SD

Claudio Vargas MIL

Randy Wolf HOU

 

I'm privy to some other information that I'll PM you about. Maybe then you won't be so hard on me and my stance http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/ohwell.gif

[PeaveyFury]

A complete list of 2008 offseason free agents, not those necc better than Braden Looper, just the complete list.

 

Ok, that's helpful. Now which ones from that list should the Brewers have signed that they actually had a chance at?

[brewers19]

A complete list of 2008 offseason free agents, not those necc better than Braden Looper, just the complete list.

 

Ok, that's helpful. Now which ones from that list should the Brewers have signed that they actually had a chance at?

I dunno, Sabathia and Sheets look pretty tempting.

[jjfanec]

A complete list of 2008 offseason free agents, not those necc better than Braden Looper, just the complete list.

A.J. Burnett TOR (may opt out) - way out of our price range

Jon Garland LAA - very similar stats to Looper and got a little more money

Tom Glavine ATL - retired

Mike Hampton * ATL - is having a nice year for Houston and is pitching a little better than Looper

Randy Johnson ARZ - We did not have a chance since we are not in California or out west

Braden Looper STL

Derek Lowe LAD - way too expensive

Carl Pavano NYY - bad

Brad Penny * LAD - got 5 million coming off an injury and is about what Looper is

Oliver Perez NYM - horrible year and contract

C.C. Sabathia MIL - Melvin tried to no avail

Ben Sheets MIL - would have been wasted money

John Smoltz * ATL - tried but he went to boston and he was only avaible for a little over half the year

Randy Wolf HOU - He would have been the best option of the bunch. He has pitched well

I deleted the FA pitchers who simply were not that good. And guys in our price range that would have been better are Randy Wolf and Randy Johnson (but he was not coming to Milwaukee). Penny and Hampton are having similar years but neither are much if any better than Looper. The reality is the options were not that good. We could have tried to trade for someone but pitching is expensive. We will be in better position this off-season with a full year of seeing what Escobar does at AAA.

[pretendastronaut]

I don't see how throwing a list of free agents up there really answers the question of who the Brewers should have signed.

[Hate those Rodents]

How about trading for Vazquez in the off-season? Or trading for Milwood, who was readily available in the off-season? Or Jack Z likely would have traded us Morrow if we had offered him a fair deal (not a rip off his way, just an even deal)? Or trading for Peavy in the off-season?

[trwi7]

I'm privy to some other information that I'll PM you about. Maybe then you won't be so hard on me and my stance http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/ohwell.gif

I would like to be privy to this information if at all possible. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[jjfanec]

How about trading for Vazquez in the off-season? Or trading for Milwood, who was readily available in the off-season? Or Jack Z likely would have traded us Morrow if we had offered him a fair deal (not a rip off his way, just an even deal)? Or trading for Peavy in the off-season?

The Kevin Millwood who had an ERA over 5 and a WHIP over 1.5 the last two seasons? He is also making over 10 million this year and would get 12 million next year if he pitched over 180 innings. Not sure why Melvin would have wanted him. Sure he is having a nice year now but fans would have panned that trade.

Vazquez would have been nice. I am not sure what it would have cost us but Tyler Flowers the prospect the Braves gave up is a very very good hitting catcher. He has an OPS of .950 in AA. Teh Braves also gave up a 2007 first round pick and a young pitcher.

Where did you hear Jack would have traded us Morrow? Very good pitching prospects like him cost a lot to get usually.

It sounds like Melvin did look into Peavy and so did some other teams but he did not want to be traded. You cannot make guys wave no trade clauses.

[Invader3K]

I can't believe how many people on this board seem to have a sheer hatred of Braun seemingly boiling under their skins.

 

How is not liking somebody's behavior "sheer hatred?"

 

In my opinion, the constant nagging on Braun's non-robotic tendencies by a select few here gets pretty annoying. He's the best offensive player the Brewers have had since the days of Molitor and Yount, but some Brewers fans don't seem to really appreciate him.

[logan82]

I think it would be more correct to say that some fans do not appreciate his behavior. I find it hard to believe that there are any fans who do not appreciate his on field contributions.

[Postseason2006]

Brad Penny * LAD - got 5 million coming off an injury and is about what Looper is

He's improving as of late while Looper is inconsistent. I would've taken Penny over Looper.

[jjfanec]

Brad Penny * LAD - got 5 million coming off an injury and is about what Looper is

He's improving as of late while Looper is inconsistent. I would've taken Penny over Looper.

Penny was coming off a year in which he started just 16 games. Looper has been inconsistent but their overall numbers are pretty much equal. However, saying you would rather have Penny than Looper is your opinion and I agree for the most part. Yet, at the beginning of this year at equal money I would have probably wanted Looper because he could log a lot of innings and with our rotation concerns a guy like Penny coming off an injury would have a been a risk. A risk that is not really worth it when their overall numbers so far this year have been so similar.

[Hate those Rodents]

JJfanec - you sure are defending Melvin. The bottom line is there was nobody in our potential rotation that should have been expected to be even a good #3. When that is the case, and you are coming off a playoff season, I think you make that risky trade and go for a #2/#3 type. It's possible we could have made a "bolder" move and still been where we are. However, we didn't and we are paying for it because we didn't, and there might be no way to remedy the situation until the off-season, which in my mind will put us out of the playoffs for sure given our rotation.

[Postseason2006]

Take a look at their last 7-8 starts and Penny has pitched much better of late in the AL.

[PeaveyFury]

When that is the case, and you are coming off a playoff season, I think you make that risky trade and go for a #2/#3 type.

 

Yet again, WHO? People keep throwing things like this out there, but aren't actually saying who the Brewers could have actually gotten.

[Hate those Rodents]

Vazquez

Millwood

Peavy

Morrow

[PeaveyFury]

Vazquez

Millwood

Peavy

Morrow

 

Was Morrow actually rumored to be available? And last offseason Peavy wasn't waiving his no-trade clause for any trade other than to the Cubs. Millwood pitched like crap the last two years, so there was no reason to think he'd be any better than a 4-5 type. Vazquez makes sense, though I'm sure the front office would have been concerned about his fly ball tendencies when pitching in Miller Park.

[Hate those Rodents]

Morrow was thought to be dangled a bit, though it might have been more fishing. I am just guessing we could have thrown JZ a couple of his favorites to get it done. I don't necessarilly agree on Peavy only wanting the Cubs. I think the Brewers are pretty darn similar with many familiar faces for him, but you might be right. Millwood would have been a risk, but his arm still and makeup would have made it worth the risk and we likely could have gotten rid of a bad salary to make the numbers closer. Vazquez was another one worth the risk.

 

It's easy to come up with reasons NOT to go after these guys. But the guys we had were not going to get it done. These four were off the top of my head though. I am sure we missed the boat on others, and again, may pay for it by not being able to get even a #3 caliber starter until the off-season.

[jjfanec]

JJfanec - you sure are defending Melvin. The bottom line is there was nobody in our potential rotation that should have been expected to be even a good #3. When that is the case, and you are coming off a playoff season, I think you make that risky trade and go for a #2/#3 type. It's possible we could have made a "bolder" move and still been where we are. However, we didn't and we are paying for it because we didn't, and there might be no way to remedy the situation until the off-season, which in my mind will put us out of the playoffs for sure given our rotation.

I am defending Melvin because people seem to find it easy in hindsight to throw out names we should have gotten and I am pointing out why it simply is not as easy as some people have seemed to make it. I think both Bush and Parra could have been expected to be 3's. Parra and Bush had a better ERA last year than Milwood and Vazquez and cost us no prospects to keep. Who are those 2/3 types you are talking about? If Morrow was availble to us and Melvin did not go after him then I am disappointed in that because he is the kind of guy we need to go after. Not guys getting over 10 million a year who are coming off bad years like Milwood. I have said in this thread Vazquez made sense but I would have like to know the cost. I wanted Peavy all off-season and would like to know if we had a real shot at him because people kept saying all winter we did not.

Hypothetical "we could have done this" or "we should have traded for this guy" ideas do not shed light on the what really happened during the off-season. We have no clue who was available. The perfect scenerio would have been trading Hardy for pitching, but I am not sure what the options were. It is easy to say we should have made certain trades no when Millwood and Vazquez are pitching well, but if we would have given up a top prospect like Flowers (who is ranked 3rd now in the White Sox system and was 5th in a loaded braves system) I am not sure how happy I would have been at the time.