Braun's comments: Latest: Braun Issues Statement, "Wasn't trying to call anybody out"

[pete]

Haudricourt likely listened to Braun's comments from a tape or transcript of whatever JS reporter was present when Braun spoke. I read the blog post again. I'm at a loss at what he is being criticized for. I suppose the "tool" could refer to providing an outlet for Braun, Melvin and every person who speaks to reporters. The other descriptor is a mystery.

[Invader3K]

A lot of people on here just can't stand Haudricourt, period, and will criticize him anytime he posts something negative, no matter the context.

[Thurston Fluff]

Once again, if we want to evaluate a GM, then we need to some how come up with metrics to evaluate his total performance.

 

I don't think you need metrics to see the team has been far better since he has been here than any team since the early 90's. It has been in contention for the playoffs for a couple years and is doing so again. That was what we were told his plan was by Doug himself when he got here. He did so pretty much in the time frame he said it would take and it is playing out exactly as he said it should. We now have a team that is perennially competitive. Any team that is always in contention increases the likelihood of winning a world series. This team is there in that respect. The window of opportunity isn't 2 years. It's the foreseeable future. Unless of course you give up the next batch of players who can keep the team competitive in an all out effort to win now. I hope to God that isn't the case. We can win as easily with Gamel, Parra, YoGa, Cain and Escobar as we could with Prince, JJ, and Hart. The players may change but the level of play doesn't have to unless you get rid of the next generation to fix the shortcomings of this one.

 

I think that is why Doug gets a little peeved when he sees a player complaining. Doug has done his job as well Braun has done Braun's job, as has the entire staff.

It has to get a little old when a guy who has been as successful as Melvin has been has to listen to a 20 something kid tell him how to do his job. Being able to hit the ball well does not make one good at building a team. It just makes one a good hitter...and a millionaire. Just like he had to learn to lay off balls outside the zone he has to learn what his role is in the organization.

 

Bill Halls contract, Jeff Suppans contract, Eric Gagne, Kevin Mench, Greg Aquino, Julian Tavares, Johnny Estrada, Vargas... for every win I can give you a loss.

 

Bad contracts are going to happen for any team more so for aggressive GM's who do everything they can to fix holes in the roster. The surest way to make sure you don't sign a bad contract or make a bad acquisition is not to make any at all.

[TheCrew07]

A lot of people on here just can't stand Haudricourt, period, and will criticize him anytime he posts something negative, no matter the context.

Have you read both articles? If so do you agree there is a huge difference in context and tone between the 2? If not... then I'd be curious why. Reading McCalvey's article I didn't get the feeling Braun was directly attacking the organization and his teammates, reading the cherry picked quotes in TH's article, that's exactly how it appears. McCalvey's piece was very even handed... TH's leaned towards sensationalism, and to his credit, it's worked wonderfully by the responses here and on the MJS blog itself.

 

None of the above excuses Braun for being classless, nor does absolve Melvin for being equally so retaliating in the press, this a lose/lose situation.

[sgtcluels]

I'm not saying that DM hasn't help us return to respectable like. But the question is, who has more influence? Was it Jack Z building the farm, or was it DM from controlling the process? Since we are on the outside, I'd rather look at DM at his ability to plug the need hole we have form our farm system. That is, look at DMs performance (vs. other GMs and vs. replacement) for all his actions that are not related to our draft control time of the player. Performance like FA contracts (Value vs. Performance), his contract extensions, isolate it that way so we can not attempt to remove Jack Z question from the equation. I think thats what muddles so much on the eval of DM, how much did Jack Z really do?

 

Bad contracts do happen, I understand that, but when you cherry pick the good, I just wanted to show that you could cherry pick the bad. Once again, look at the whole instead of thin slices of the negative or positive.

[pete]

The two articles aren't parallel. The earlier JSonline blog post, "Let's Make a Deal" is the one that would correlate to the McCalvey post. Braun's comments created a bit of a sensation and a reporter got a response from the GM. The follow up quoted the statements that created the sensation to provide context.

 

I have to say, reading the original statement or better, listening to it, it lacks the same bite, but its hard to conclude that Braun wasn't saying that McClung and Burns didn't stink.

[FVBrewerFan]

I never would have imagined the spin put on Braun's comments. However you want to slice and dice what Braun said, didn't say, or meant to say he called out his teammates. You just don't do that. Of course he's right, everyone knows that already- most of all Melvin. That's what makes this puzzling to me. I'm sure Melvin was shocked to hear a rotation that includes McClung and Burns isn't the best rotation in baseball.

 

So Braun has to state the obvious and throw players under the bus in the process. Managers can do that for their own reasons, so can the GM and owner. Players have no business speaking publicly about needing to improve the roster. What good comes from that?? If he feels that strongly about it, go talk to Melvin and Mark A. and share your concerns privately.

[adamb100]

I've got to ask...I keep reading that Jack Z is completely responsible for all the drafted players. Does Doug Melvin do absolutely nothing draft-wise? What's the GM's role?

Pretty sure Jack Z goes out and scouts the best players and then reports to DM "Hey x player, y pitcher, z catcher have great potential, try and draft them in the upcoming draft"

 

DM drafts and signs them then.

[lcbj68c]

The window of opportunity isn't 2 years. It's the foreseeable future. Unless of course you give up the next batch of players who can keep the team competitive in an all out effort to win now. I hope to God that isn't the case. We can win as easily with Gamel, Parra, YoGa, Cain and Escobar as we could with Prince, JJ, and Hart. The players may change but the level of play doesn't have to unless you get rid of the next generation to fix the shortcomings of this one.

 

There is depth at the minor league level as earlier indicated. We are not saying exhaust it all, but definitely use some of it. Barring rule changes in the game of baseball, we can't have 10 guys play the infield at the MLB level. Hoarding at the MILB level can only take you so far. It's been long past time to start using the surplus hitting talent at the MILB level to gain you some pitching at the MLB level that you failed to acquire, for whatever reason, in the draft. There seems to be a contingent of folks that seem to think those that want to make a move would mean losing ALL of our future. I believe there to be a happy medium.

 

It has to get a little old when a guy who has been as successful as Melvin has been has to listen to a 20 something kid tell him how to do his job. Being able to hit the ball well does not make one good at building a team. It just makes one a good hitter...and a millionaire. Just like he had to learn to lay off balls outside the zone he has to learn what his role is in the organization.

 

Kid? This seems quite a bit demeaning. As a 27 year old, living in Florida, it gets a bit redundant hearing people in their 60-70's calling people in their 20's and 30's "kid". I won't get into the dictionary reference, but Ryan Braun is not some "kid" who needs to be submissive to his "master" or some "elder" simply because somebody has lived on this earth longer. I agree that Ryan Braun needs to respect Doug Melvin because that's his boss and that's his role in the organization as a player, but not because he's 20-something and Melvin's 50-something as your post seems to state.

Braun is not some kid, who just moved onto the baseball scene. He has honed his craft and is not new the block when evaluating talent amongst his peers. It wasn't right for Braun to say, "Something stinks in Denmark" in the heat of the moment after some tough losses. He has invested himself and his career in the success of the Milwaukee Brewers for the long term, for as long as they want him barring trade.

Both were wrong, but I'll reitirate that Ryan Braun has given his "career" to the Milwaukee Brewers to this point rather than sitting around like Fielder has done, like Hardy has done and play the arbitration game and seemingly waiting for their opportunity to move on. He seems personally invested in this team, this city, and the organization and that says a lot of a profe$$ional athlete in this day and age. I wish he hadn't said it, but I understand the passion and appreciate it.

[joepepsi]

Doug's comments were hilarious. Maybe a GM shouldn't call out a player, but when that player is blaming everyone in the organization but himself for a recent bad stretch, well, the organization does have to publicly respond. Braun can be refreshingly honest, but he's also brash and jumping into interviews with an attitude that reveals his immaturity. He's not in Sheffield territory but he's headed in that direction if he doesn't consider his comments with more care.

[benji]

Keith Law has mentioned in his online chat that Jack Z was against drafting Yovani. How he knows that I don't know. I don't know how anyone will know who truly deserves the credit or the blame for draft success or failure. My guess there are several scouts that we don't even know the name of that have a lot to do with drafting players. It is up to gm/drafting directors to sift through the data as well as the source of the data. I am sure there are some GM's that are more involved than others.

[Pudster13]

Doug's comments were hilarious. Maybe a GM shouldn't call out a player, but when that player is blaming everyone in the organization but himself for a recent bad stretch, well, the organization does have to publicly respond. Braun can be refreshingly honest, but he's also brash and jumping into interviews with an attitude that reveals his immaturity. He's not in Sheffield territory but he's headed in that direction if he doesn't consider his comments with more care.

I think this is hitting the nail on the head. Good post.

 

In most workplaces, what Braun did would be called "Insubordination".

[1992casey]

In most workplaces, what Braun did would be called "Subordination".

 

No, "subordination" is what Doug Melvin was attempting to do with his comments. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Fatter than Joey]

No, "subordination" is what Doug Melvin was attempting to do with his comments

 

Kudos to Casey for catching this.

 

Now DM needs to realize that in importance, he is on the wrong end of the > than Braun

[Thurston Fluff]

Kid? This seems quite a bit demeaning.

 

If he'd stop acting like a kid I wouldn't call him one.

 

Barring rule changes in the game of baseball, we can't have 10 guys play the infield at the MLB level.

 

I guess I don't see the depth the same way as you do. We have a need at second yet none of that depth was deemed good enough to replace what we already have. It may look deep but really how much value is Heether or Iribarren? Does anyone think you are going to get a quality major league pitcher for that type of player? They are not even the type of players you can package together to get one. Most teams who would be interested in borderline major league players will just wait until they are DFA'ed out of spring training or taken off the 40 man roster. At the most they will trade for them in the off season. There really is no demand for that type of player if you want the same thing every other contending major league team wants.

 

As far as the credit for the draft if Jack Z really was responsible maybe he is also to blame for this team's major problem at the moment. We have very little starting pitching now and pretty much since Jack has been here. That makes Melvin have to find the them elsewhere. Had we found more than 2 starters in the past decade maybe the situation would be different today.

[fondybrewfan]

A baseball team is a little bit different that a normal workplace though, namely Braun makes a lot more money than his boss and is arguably more vital to the organization than its CEO (Assumed to be Melvin). Melvin may indeed be his boss but I don't think you can compare this to a normal workplace squabble.

 

In a normal workplace there is probably a good chance that Braun would have been fired on the spot, however that isn't possible and if for some ungodly reason that Melvin traded him, he would get run out of town.

 

What Braun said was truthful, but talking to the media was probably not a good idea, nor was it a good idea for Melvin to publicly call out one of his own players.

[Thurston Fluff]

A baseball team is a little bit different that a normal workplace though, namely Braun makes a lot more money than his boss and is arguably more vital to the organization than its CEO (Assumed to be Melvin). Melvin may indeed be his boss but I don't think you can compare this to a normal workplace squabble.

 

Couldn't disagree with this more. You can trade Braun for someone of equal value or more payers to make the overall team more balanced. Great players bring value in either trades or play. Great GM's are the ones necessary if you want to continue to find enough good players to win. Robin Yount couldn't compensate for Sal Bando nor could Ben Sheets compensate for Dean Taylor. Does anyone think Braun would be good enough to compensate for Washington's GM? In baseball the most important figure in the organization is the GM not any particular player IMHO.

You can't trade your GM for another of equal value.

[lcbj68c]

In addition to that Fondy, what he said was in essence, "Hey Boss, we need some help here. Some employees are not pulling their weight and performing below expectations for this type of job. There are some great men out there that do this job very well and I hope we can get one of them." It's tough pulling them from their current boss as we'd have to give up some pretty good men from another department, but hey, our department is the most important of this whole industry and company. It's tough having to pull our weight when we have to pull their weight and catch up from their poor work before we can even get started. I'll admit, the past month, it's been so burdensome carrying their weight, that some days, we come in and cant get motivated to do our own job well enough. Please Boss, get us some help. The problem lies when you express that message to the media and not the boss himself. It's hardly an insubordinate issue, it's a cry for help.

[TheCrew07]

Keith Law has mentioned in his online chat that Jack Z was against drafting Yovani. How he knows that I don't know. I don't know how anyone will know who truly deserves the credit or the blame for draft success or failure. My guess there are several scouts that we don't even know the name of that have a lot to do with drafting players. It is up to gm/drafting directors to sift through the data as well as the source of the data. I am sure there are some GM's that are more involved than others.

 

Off topic: Colby knew about that somehow as well, there was a huge debate in the draft room over whom to take, I forget who the other player was and the search on the Draft Forum isn't working or I'd go link the original posts in thread. It's a tad bit unnerving to think of where this team would be without Yo...

[sheethead]

A baseball team is a little bit different that a normal workplace though, namely Braun makes a lot more money than his boss and is arguably more vital to the organization than its CEO (Assumed to be Melvin). Melvin may indeed be his boss but I don't think you can compare this to a normal workplace squabble.

 

Couldn't disagree with this more.

What exactly were you disagreeing with? Baseball economics (I would say pro sports in general) are different than any other business? Braun makes more money than the GM? Braun is more vital to the Brewers success than DM? The only thing I would disagree with is that Braun probably doesn't see DM as his boss per se. Most likely Braun probably feels like he is his own boss, since he will get paid no matter what if he plays the game of baseball at a high level. I would go as far as to say there is no power structure in baseball. It is an assembly of interworking parts that assist each other to acheive the goal of entertaining people and winning games.

 

Edit - I meant there is no power structure between the players and any form of management. Sort of like any union shop.

[tyguy20204]

Off topic: Colby knew about that somehow as well, there was a huge debate in the draft room over whom to take, I forget who the other player was and the search on the Draft Forum isn't working or I'd go link the original posts in thread. It's a tad bit unnerving to think of where this team would be without Yo...

If anyone has the scoop on this, I'd love to hear it.

[MickeyDavis]

Braun, Melvin will meet today

By Tom Haudricourt of the Journal Sentinel

July 7, 2009 12:23 p.m.

 

 

I have it on good authority that leftfielder Ryan Braun and general manager Doug Melvin will meet today to discuss the comments Braun made Sunday in Chicago and Melvin's public response to them in my story in the JS this morning.

 

The two will tell each other where they were coming from with their comments and get on the same page, and I'm guessing both will put it behind them before the game tonight against St. Louis. Neither will want this to linger and distract the team with big series against St. Louis and Los Angeles this week.

 

Braun probably won't say much if anything to the media tonight about it because he'll want this to die, not live on.

 

Here's my take on the entire situation:

 

Braun was not malicious in his comments Sunday. He was asked about losing 3 of 4 to the Cubs and noted that Chicago's starting pitching was much better than the Brewers' in the series. He then said he'd like for Melvin to get some pitching help as soon as possible.

 

Braun didn't realize that the comments about the pitching could be interpreted as dissing his teammates, or his talk of trade could be interpreted as criticizing the front office for not getting a deal done. But that's the way Melvin took it, and he obviously felt strongly about it because he hasn't publicly criticized a player before since becoming Brewers GM, to my knowledge.

 

Melvin is as measured and calm a person as I've dealt with professionally, so this really hit a nerve personally for him to say anything publicly. As aggravating as I can be, he's only truely gotten mad at me once, and I deserved it.

 

My interpretation was that the latest comments from Braun were the straw that broke the camel's back for Melvin. Braun has been openly critical of playing day games at Miller Park with the shadows making it difficult to hit, and he also made a comment last week that the hitters didn't get a good scouting report on San Francisco newcomer Ryan Sadowski, who pitched six shutout innings against the Brewers. The front office really doesn't want players saying that to the media.

 

So, Melvin decided enough was enough with public criticisms from Braun and decided to say something so Braun might be more careful in the future about what he says to the media.

 

Nobody's saying Braun did not speak the truth about Brewers' pitching or needing a trade, etc. Melvin just wishes he would keep that to himself because it can be interpreted as dissing teammates and criticizing the front office, which has worked hard to look for pitching help on a very bleak market.

 

So, in a way, this might be good. Braun and Melvin will clear the air today, let each other know where they stand, and move on. Braun has committed to the Brewers long-term, is a two-time all-star and a very friendly player with the media. Melvin just wants him to be more careful with his public comments.

 

I'm guessing this all blows over after today. Braun might make a comment about it to the media but will quickly move on and get down to the business of baseball.

 

This is a big week and neither Braun nor Melvin want distractions as the Brewers take on the Cardinals and Dodgers.

[Invader3K]

Good to hear. Hopefully they will both get on the same page and move on.

 

Kudos to Haudricourt for a well written article, too. This part cracked me up: "As aggravating as I can be, he's only truely gotten mad at me once, and I deserved it."

[southpaw121505]

(from TH article)
Melvin is as measured and calm a person as I've dealt with professionally, so this really hit a nerve personally for him to say anything publicly. As aggravating as I can be, he's only truely gotten mad at me once, and I deserved it.

This is why I think people are bogus for calling DM out for this, the guy is ALWAYS even keel and calculated in his words and he gets emotional one time and people bash him.

[trwi7]

I forget who the other player was

Wasn't it Erik Cordier?