Signing non-American and non-Canadian players: can someone explain?

[barbados73]

I am just noticing all these foreign players(most 16 years old or so) signing with major league teams. The question I have is why don't they have to go into the draft like American and Canadian born players? What good reason could MLB have for not making them go into the draft? In my mind all it does is benefit the large market teams, because they can afford to scout more and afford the crazy money that it is costing to sign some of these guys. Just look at Dice-K as an example, when he signed it ended up costing Boston something along the lines of a $100 million. How many teams seriously are ever going to be able to compete for the elite foreign players? Is there any hope that MLB changes this in the near future?

[nate82]

The next CBA (Collective Bargaining Agreement) is supposedly suppose to fix this or at least touch on this problem. The problem you are talking about was being talked about in this thread somewhat.

[Diskono]

In the case of Matsuzaka, he was under contract with another club. His previous club shouldn't be under any obligation to release the player just because the Red Sox wanted him. Instead, they said "it will cost $50 million to buy out Matsuzaka's contract." Ok, if that's what they think the player is worth, fair enough. I don't see why Japanese clubs should be forced to give up their players for free. And if the team signing the player doesn't pay the transfer fee, who does, Bud Selig?

[1992casey]

I've edited the topic title to be more explicative.

 

The players association did actually agree to allow owners to implement a worldwide draft in the 2002 collective bargaining agreement. Owners never implemented one, however. I guess they decided it'd be too costly to implement.

 

If you look at that decision, there's probably some sense behind it. Each team seems to find its own niche when it comes to foreign scouting. A draft would force teams to scout everywhere to be competitive.

 

As Diskono says, there's probably no practical way to eliminate payments to Japanese teams when Major League teams want to sign their players who haven't reached free agency. We have to play by their rules. I suppose a draft for players who've reached free agency could be practical, however.

[barbados73]

In the case of Matsuzaka, he was under contract with another club. His previous club shouldn't be under any obligation to release the player just because the Red Sox wanted him. Instead, they said "it will cost $50 million to buy out Matsuzaka's contract." Ok, if that's what they think the player is worth, fair enough. I don't see why Japanese clubs should be forced to give up their players for free. And if the team signing the player doesn't pay the transfer fee, who does, Bud Selig?

I have no issue the way the Dice K thing went down, because those are the rules. My issue/question is if Dice K wants to play in MLB then why doesn't he(and players like him) have to go into the draft first. How can any player be a free agent without having to go through the draft at some point? These are the things that drive me crazy about baseball, because it just reinforces that MLB really doesn't care about the playing field being level. As long as the big market teams are bringing in the money they could care less about the rest. If that is the case then contract the other 20-25 teams and see how well a league of 5-10 teams does.

[1992casey]

I'm not sure what you're getting at. You start by saying that you're fine with how the Matsuzaka thing went down, then it seems that you're saying you're not. Matsuzaka was never a free agent.

 

How would you suggest setting up a draft for Japanese players who would only be available if their teams allow them to be available? Additionally, even with a draft, wouldn't the cost issue continue to exist? If it's up to the team in Japan to agree to a compensation amount, many teams would be priced out of that market whether there's a draft or not.

[nate82]

The MLB could set up the draft like the NBA where the team pays an X amount of money to the team the player they drafted and the player pays the rest. Of course the MLBPA would never agree to that. Plus you would still have the same things happening now. The smaller market teams wouldn't draft those players b/c the price would be to high along with the risk.

 

I do agree that the Latin American players need to be entering the draft though.

[RightFieldCoder]

Or maybe they should incorporat a DiceK signing into the draft. The BoSox signed a foreign player and that counts as their first round pick. That would allow the rich teams to get those MLB ready players and allow the poorer teams better picks (because Boston pick would just be skipped). It's not a total evening of the playing field, but it helps.

[barbados73]

I'm not sure what you're getting at. You start by saying that you're fine with how the Matsuzaka thing went down, then it seems that you're saying you're not. Matsuzaka was never a free agent.

 

How would you suggest setting up a draft for Japanese players who would only be available if their teams allow them to be available? Additionally, even with a draft, wouldn't the cost issue continue to exist? If it's up to the team in Japan to agree to a compensation amount, many teams would be priced out of that market whether there's a draft or not.

 

I have a issue with the rules that allowed the whole Dice K thing more than I do the Dice K signing itself. I realize the rules allowed Dice K to be auctioned off and that is what I have the issue with. My solution would be that all players have to go into the draft before they can come to MLB. Then I would make it that teams keep the rights to the player they drafted either indefinately or at least 5 years. That way you cut out this [language edited by mod] threats by the Stausburg types(and probably some foreign players if/when the time comes) that they will sit out a year and reenter the draft. Giving teams rights to the picks for at least 5 years would also remove the threat of a high schooler going to college to avoid playing for a certain team.

 

(edit: language --1992)

[RightFieldCoder]

College players would never get picked. Teams will just use their picks to sit on all of the HS players. It already takes several years to reach the majors, there would be an eternity between drafting a guy and seeing him play for your team. Also, I think Colby would be overwhelmed keeping track of all of the college players we've drafted in the last 4 years http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[pebadger]

If ' a level playing field' is the goal, I wouldn't even worry about tinkering with the draft and such. Just implement a salary cap and be done with it. Or, accept the fact that 'big teams' will always have an advantage, accept it, and then try to beat them anyway by ding things the best you can.

 

Many of these 'international' problems that seem to so vex American sports fans have been dealt with by big-time European soccer clubs for years and years. US fans and club management could learn a lot by expanding their base of knowledge beyond just the way things are done here.

[RightFieldCoder]

As someone who doesn't follow soccer, could you explain how the European leagues deal with this problem?

[Ennder]

If ' a level playing field' is the goal, I wouldn't even worry about tinkering with the draft and such. Just implement a salary cap and be done with it.

 

I hope you realize how utterly hopeless and flawed a salary cap would be in baseball without completely restructuring the draft and minor league system at the same time. I would hope by now people also realize that a salary cap doesn't really level the playing field even in a sport like the NFL. Big market and popular teams still have significant advantages over a team like say the Lions where nobody wants to play.

[Baldkin]

Not to forget the need to completely restructure revenue sharing and TV deals as well.

 

All a salary cap would do, would be to take money away from the players and put it in the owners pockets -- hence why the MLBPA will never allow it.

[pebadger]

The biggest problem with a salary cap in MLB is not the cap so much as it is the revenue end of things. That will ultimately be the biggest challenge to the cap system in the NFL, too. It works so long as revenues from top to bottom of the league are within some defined band. The NFL's financial structure with respect to TV revenue when teh cap was first implemented had a pretty good revenue distribution. Teams are finding a way, as they always do under any system, to exploit more revenue streams to either enhance their competitiveness or to line the owner's pockets. The NLF is also 'blessed', in a sense, by the very insular nature of the sport: it's basically only played here, and the only 'apprenticeship' you can serve is as part of the US college system.

 

Any sport that is truly international in nature presents a whole bunch of different problems in terms of bringing in talent. The US leagues (MLB and NBA) like to think of themselves as the only 'true' destination for athletes who play these games, and while this is certainly more true for MLB than the NBA, that may change as the games grow in popularity (though much more quickly for hoops than baseball) and the sport becomes more international. Basketball has a bigger challenge as there are more potential lucrative leagues out there given the popularity of the sport in Europe, combined with the phenomenon of an overabundance of talent for comparatively small rosters. Other than Japan, there is no potential for any other competitive league in any viable market any time soon. Other than Japan, the game is really only widely popular in Latin America, and the ability to maintain an economically competitive league there is non-existent at present. Combine that with the fact that rosters are comparatively large for baseball, and that talent (especially in pitchiing) is scarce

 

A cap only works with solid revenue equalisation (or at least mitigation of big revenue variances within the league) in addition to a tightening of the developmental and entry systems. But I think with respect to simply worrying about international players, a cap of some kind could be useful. Maybe even just a secondary cap on spending on transfer fees to non-MLB clubs/non-MLB free agents would help, combined with a rule that states that no foreign player can be signed by an MLB club as a free agent unless that player has built up 'service time' in an approved foreign league, or is signed straight from amateur status.

[JJHardy7]

The MLB could set up the draft like the NBA where the team pays an X amount of money to the team the player they drafted and the player pays the rest. Of course the MLBPA would never agree to that. Plus you would still have the same things happening now. The smaller market teams wouldn't draft those players b/c the price would be to high along with the risk.

I do agree that the Latin American players need to be entering the draft though.

Or maybe they should incorporat a DiceK signing into the draft. The BoSox signed a foreign player and that counts as their first round pick. That would allow the rich teams to get those MLB ready players and allow the poorer teams better picks (because Boston pick would just be skipped). It's not a total evening of the playing field, but it helps.

I like both of these points. I think it would be difficult to place a pick on signing any player. Maybe a dollar amount equals a certain round? The only idea I have is that all players could be in the draft. You could have all players declare for the draft and if they don't 'declare' they can't play in that year and/or the year after. If there was an amazing Japanese player that teams would love to have...the team with the #1 pick takes that player and then trades the rights (I know that's not how it works now...but they should also change some of the trade rules). I guess you could also allow teams to trade draft picks and if a team like the Red Sox want an expensive international player they could give up players for the pick.