Theoretical Ben Sheets Trade: Would You Accept It?

[Brian the Automator]

The "egg nog" comment was out of line. Opinions are just that, opinions, and everyone is entitled to them without people insisting that people are medicated when they take them.

 

Let's keep fostering a good attitude towards discussion here.

[Dollarbill13]

I guess upside-wise, it is an even trade. Hughes could become one of the better pitchers in the game and Cano could continue to put up a .900 ops at 2B.

 

However, given the old adage that there is no such thing as a pitching prospect due to their high flameout rate, getting the #1 pitcher prospect is much different than the #1 hitter prospect. For every Ben Sheets, there are several Edwin Jacksons.

 

I'd feel great about getting a .890 ops 2B is his numbers looked like 300/360/530 where you'd feel confident that if his average started to drop because of bad luck, he'd still be reliable to reach base at a decent clip. If you look at his PECOTA projections going into 2006, Cano exceeded even his most optimistic. So either he improved drastically without improving his plate discipline or he got quite lucky last season. I'd lean toward the latter although I don't really have anything to prove that is the case.

 

Even if Cano had a better walk rate and was putting up a .900 ops, I shy away from trading for a guy when his value is highest, which I think is the case for Cano right now.

[Big Reed]

I still ask the question- why would the brewers want to obtain another second baseman? before he went down, Weeks was finally showing he could handle the defensive requirements of playing second base. So his reward is he gets moved to CF?

 

I also don't see why the yankees would do this deal. they are said to now be in the running to sign Zito. if they need another stud pitcher, the can always sign clemens. they don't really need to trade their all star second baseman and a stud pitching prospct to get Sheets. I would also think the Yankees would set their sights a little higher than Sheets - somebody like Santana or Osborn or Willis.

[hauser42]

And as far as saying Cano is not as good as his numbers, can you actually prove that? Does being in a star studded lineup automatically make a mediocre player put up superstar level numbers. The burden of proof is on you to prove that he is just a mediocre player, and so far I've seen nothing to disprove the fact that the guy hit .340 and slugged over .500 as a 23 year old in the middle of the New York media circus. But pitchers must not be throwing their best pitches to him, they must be lobbing the ball to the plate because they are afraid of the rest of the Yankee lineup.

 

I don't believe we will be able to resign Benny. In today's market he is going to probably bring in a 100 Million dollar contract. That's something the Brewers can't afford. So that's why I see us only having two more years with Sheeter.

 

Talent wise, there isn't that wide of a gap between the two teams in this trade. If you have read the posts in the thread, while most would turn this offer down, there are some who said they would accept it. Are you calling them drunk too?

 

So until you come up with some actual facts to prove that Cano and Hughes are trash and that their numbers are just all smoke and mirrors, you can just take all your elitist egg nog comments and shove it.

 

First off the egg nog was a joke, sorry it was not in blue. It was holiday humor.

 

Now lets talk baseball. Yes you sited some of the elite players that have come up from the Yankees. But there are a lot players over the past 10 years that have been pumped up in the Yankee media that have fizzled and done it in a hard way. Ruben Rivera, John-Ford Griffith, and Drew Hanson have all failed after being the top Yankee prospect. Nick Johnson has been solid but he was suppose to be a difference maker and he has not reached that status. Eric Duncan seems headed down this path and I thin that Hughes could also find that path.

 

My feeling on Cano is that he gets better pitches and numbers because of that lineup. There is no proof in numbers right now and I will admit that. Now think about it put him in the Brewers or the Pirates lineup. Will there be as many baserunners on in front of him or as good as hitters to drive him in?? I don't think so. People can argue they that don't beleive a better lineup allows players to see better pitches, it happens pitchers would rather pitch to Cano instead of Sheff or Jeter. Thus they will see better pitches to hit. No a pitcher is not going to lob it in but they may not throw there best pitch because they think they can get it by him.

 

Maybe I am hoping for too much but, I think that Mark A wants a winner and knows they will have to pay some players to get there. IF Sheets has a healthy season I think they will start looking at paying him for the long term. I maybe in a pipe dream with that.

[TooLiveBrew]

I think the Crew will see so many better offers for Sheets than this original one, it'll make BF.net's collective head spin.

 

And, Big Reed, I loved your top-of-page post, with the exception of the first & last lines -

Quote:

---

many people forget Weeks was playing some mighty fine defense for more than a month before he injured himself. I would guess the desire for Cano is because you have lost faith in Weeks as a second baseman. if Weeks can play second base like he did that last month, the brewers don't really have a need for another second baseman- or a need to move Weeks to CF.

---

I, obviously, don't like the offer (Reed's first line), and Cano's success is not entirely a byproduct of that lineup, although I do admit it helps. Cano is a fine, fine talent, and is a strong 2B.

 

What he does show us, though, in addition to Reed's good points on Rickie's improved defense, is that what the Brewers have in Weeks is a special talent at 2B. Even Cano, an AL all-star, does not provide anywhere near the power of Weeks, while Weeks brings the speed and athleticism of Cano.

 

Lastly, I do want to point out that there's a heavy anti-Yankees bias on this site, to immediately discount a prospect as highly-regarded (across the league, not just in NYY-land) as Hughes. I understand the small market fans feeling that the way the Yanks are able to spend money is unfair. What's even more unfair, though, and counterproductive to objective discussion on this forum, is the notion that Hughes is a pedestrian pitcher who's merely a product of some conspiracy-riddled NYY media.

 

Come on guys, Hughes is their Gallardo. Let's be more fair

[Weirdos19]

After this season, I think the Crew may have to trade Sheets.

 

I don't like it, but he's worth way more than most or all of the FA pitchers from this offseason.

 

 

A Sexson type deal may be a possibility.

 

Maybe to the Mets. They may need a starter next offseason.

 

Sheets to Mets for Milledge, Heilman, and John Maine?

 

This will be the talk for the next offseason. Guaranteed.

[hauser42]

Lastly, I do want to point out that there's a heavy anti-Yankees bias on this site, to immediately discount a prospect as highly-regarded (across the league, not just in NYY-land) as Hughes. I understand the small market fans feeling that the way the Yanks are able to spend money is unfair. What's even more unfair, though, and counterproductive to objective discussion on this forum, is the notion that Hughes is a pedestrian pitcher who's merely a product of some conspiracy-riddled NYY media.

 

My point is that the New York Media pumps almost every Yankee prospect like they are a elite talent. I have read and heard several baseball writes state this.

 

Hughes is their Yo. Both these guys could be a bust, Superstar or some where in between. I do see a lot of homerism when it comes to Brewer prospect sites and have stated that since I came here early this year.

[mothershipconnection]

Right now, this is a crappy trade. We have hopes of contending in the next two years and that almost certainly won't happen without Sheets (aside from incredible progression by at least one of Cappy/Bush/Yo). Hughes is completely unproven, and his absolute ceiling may be somewhere around what Sheets is right now. Also, we have Weeks, and if he's ever going to realize his potential, Cano is superfluous.

 

HOWEVER, if it's next winter and we had a crappy 2007, one of our starters will miss most of 2008 with TJ surgery and Weeks has flamed out, this is a great trade. This is a trade you make when you have almost nothing to play for in the present and can only hope for a better future.