Can the Escobar rumors stop now?

[PeaveyFury]

and the overwhelming majority wanted him called up anyway and Spivey traded.

 

...because Spivey was terrible with the Brewers. As someone else mentioned in the thread, when those guys came up, they were replacing guys that deserved to be replaced. With Escobar, you have an All-Star short stop already in place. It's two totally different situations.

 

Who is this team going to beat in the playoffs with it's current rotation? ...... Look ahead to the playoffs, how do we get out of the first round with our current rotation?

 

Exactly the argument for going out and upgrading the rotation if they find a deal that makes sense for the Brewers.

[endaround]

Weeks came up because Melvin was able to steal Ohka from the Nats because Robinson had a fit because Ohka was upset about being pulled. If that didn't happen Weeks would have stayed in AAA until either they found a taker for Spivey or the trade deadline passed.

 

And the difference between the Brewers rotation this year and Philly's last year is slight.

[TheCrew07]

And the difference between the Brewers rotation this year and Philly's last year is slight.

False. The Phillies had the 4th best team ERA in the NL last season at 3.88. The rotation had Hamels at 3.09, Moyer a 3.71, Blanton (only 13 starts after deadline trade) a 4.20, and Meyers a 4.55.

 

Current Brewer rotation...minimum 10 starts... Gallardo 2.75, Suppan 4.60, Looper 4.78, Bush 5.67, Parra 7.52... we have 1 player with an ERA under their 4th best...

 

I don't see the similarities there at all. Gallardo and Hamels are a wash, but after that the Phillies rotation was vastly superior. As is their offense.

 

With Escobar, you have an All-Star short stop already in place. It's two totally different situations.

I could buy that except it doesn't only happen to Escobar, it happens to every single prospect in that group. Look no farther than the Gamel thread on the Major League forum for ample support of my opinion. Furthermore, someone isn't less of a prospect because he plays behind an established player who's made an All-Star team. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other, the issue at hand comes down to if it's better to let our players walk for draft picks or attempt to trade for prospects close enough to help the team in the near future. Hardy and Fielder are gone, it's only a matter of time, so again the issue is what represents the best value to the Brewers, production + draft picks, or replacement player + trade acquisition(s). The issue has never been as simple as Hardy vs Escobar or Fielder vs Gamel/Whomever... the issue is trying to figure out how to get the best possible value out of a player before he walks. Constantly comparing Escobar to Hardy is a disservice to the truth... if Hardy is gone he was traded, so the value of the trade pieces must be included in the coversation. It' not 1 for 1, it's a 2 for 1, or 3 for 1, with the 1 being Hardy.

[logan82]

I could buy that except it doesn't only happen to Escobar, it happens to every single prospect in that group. Look no farther than the Gamel thread on the Major League forum for ample support of my opinion.

 

That really doesn't support your opinion. It supports PeavyFury's position. People think McGehee is a good player and don't want to replace him with an unknown player. We have adequate at worst players at every position, or in the case of McGehee, a player who is performing very well.(I still think Gamel is a better option, but that is for the other discussion) I think people like our prospects, it's just that right now, we have mostly adequate players at the MLB level.

 

The issue has never been as simple as Hardy vs Escobar or Fielder vs Gamel/Whomever... the issue is trying to figure out how to get the best possible value out of a player before he walks. Constantly comparing Escobar to Hardy is a disservice to the truth... if Hardy is gone he was traded, so the value of the trade pieces must be included in the coversation. It' not 1 for 1, it's a 2 for 1, or 3 for 1, with the 1 being Hardy.

 

Your position seems to be get worse for this year and better in the future. I highly doubt Hardy can be traded for a player that will make us better this year. If we could get a 1 or 2 starter for Hardy, I say trade him. The only guy of that quality we are likely to get is going to be a rental and I would rather not get a rental.

[TheCrew07]

That really doesn't support your opinion. It supports PeavyFury's position. People think McGehee is a good player and don't want to replace him with an unknown player. We have adequate at worst players at every position, or in the case of McGehee, a player who is performing very well.(I still think Gamel is a better option, but that is for the other discussion) I think people like our prospects, it's just that right now, we have mostly adequate players at the MLB level.

I think you're only looking at it surface deep... how many times have people said there's no star power in the second wave? This group of prospects has been overlooked from the start. Gamel a 2nd a tier prospect? That's laughable... Comparing Escobar to Braun and Fielder? Laughable.. he's an entirely different type of player, but has a realistic chance to be just as valuable. Cain is a 5 tool prospect, he's smooooth in the field, he has great upside. Green might not have great tools, but he's a very productive LH hitter that plays a position of need. I don't think coach32sm comparing Salome's upside to Pudge was all that far off, I have no idea if he's going to get there though... The point is, this wave is just as talented as the first all things considered.

 

Your position seems to be get worse for this year and better in the future. I highly doubt Hardy can be traded for a player that will make us better this year. If we could get a 1 or 2 starter for Hardy, I say trade him. The only guy of that quality we are likely to get is going to be a rental and I would rather not get a rental.

I've repeatedly said that we missed the window on the Hardy deal last off season and the best alternative for an in season deal (that I'm not in favor of) at this time is a type A rental. I don't buy that with Parra epic failing this is a playoff team. The team realistically needs 2 pitchers, needs to back off of Yo, and could use a bat as well. We don't have the prospect power for all of that. However, if DM is gonna make a deal, I'd rather get draft picks. Apparently I have a greater degree of patience than many people around here... with no off-season pitching acquisition of substance I was fine letting Parra develop and Yo getting his feet back under him to make a serious run in 2010. I called my shot on Looper, now the same people that wanted him now want to blow more prospects on a very small window of opportunity. We just aren't going to be able to buy all the time, it's simply not realistic to always take that position.

 

Furthermore our window of opportunity doesn't close when we lose Hardy and Fielder, our line up down the road has the potential to be the most solid top to bottom as it's been since the early 80s, some around here just need to have a little faith.

[PeaveyFury]

I think you're only looking at it surface deep... how many times have people said there's no star power in the second wave?

 

That wasn't the point I made or that he was responding to... we're commenting that people aren't willing to trade known production for potential while they're in the middle of a playoff race, and I think that's a fair statement.

 

I don't buy that with Parra epic failing this is a playoff team.

 

But the problem is that with those very rotation issues, they're in first place at the half way point. I just don't think it's either feasible or reasonable to expect the team to get to July 31st and not try to improve themselves to make a run. If they've made it that far and are in contention, there's no reason to think that an additional arm or two couldn't help immensely.

 

Furthermore our window of opportunity doesn't close when we lose Hardy and Fielder

 

No, but it becomes considerably less certain. As you said, 3 years from now we're banking on potential, right now we're working with reality.