Changeups - Lefty vs. Lefty

[derflotr]

I keep hearing about how lefties don't throw changeups to lefties. Just now Schroeder mentioned that Santana won't throw changeups to Fielder because he's left-handed (though he did it twice), and I remember hearing about Mat Gamel liking left-handed pitching because he never got changeups from them. I assumed it was a fabrication of the FSN broadcasting crew until I heard Gamel say it. I never heard of this with righties on other righties. Why would left-handed pitchers stay away from the changeup to left-handed hitters? Can someone explain it?

[trwi7]

Changeups move down and in to left handed hitters. Which is exactly where they want the ball.

 

Edit: Just look at that at bat by McGehee. Three changeups, all moving down and away and he flailed at two of them.

[Legacy25GT]

I've thought the same thing... you'd think that righty-righty would be the exact same approach as lefty-lefty.

[homer]

If you look at Santana's (a change up artist) numbers against lefties, they are actually worse than against righties. The opposite of what you'd expect.

[southpaw121505]

Righty-righty is not as dramatic as lefty lefty for the simple fact that righties are used to seeing so many more righties so it's not as abnormal, it's just hitting. Lefties change ups do have more of a natural screw ball effect than a righties. I used to throw a circle change and when it was on it broke as much as my breaking ball, but in the opposite way. I couldn't throw it to lefties because it ruins the point of offspeed. If they are out in front, like you want them to be, they still have a chance to get the barrel on because of simple timing and ball location. The ball is closer to them at the same time that their bat is about to leave the hitting zone. I hope that makes some sense, I think it makes more sense in my head than it does in writing.

[topper09er]

southpaw121505[/b]]Lefties change ups do have more of a natural screw ball effect than a righties.

 

If they are out in front, like you want them to be, they still have a chance to get the barrel on because of simple timing and ball location.

First, there is absolutley no difference between a lefty throwing a pitch and a righty throwing a pitch except that they are "opposite," or break the other way. There is nothing special about leftys that cause them to have more break in a certain direction than a righty. A lefty change, if throw the same way by a righty, will have the exact same "screw ball effect."

 

In general, however, the best changups (Santana, Hamels) tend to belong to leftys because they face many more opposite hitting matchups (although there are plenty of good RPH changes like Hoffman). This is because RH hitters see the ball better and earlier from a lefty (and vice versa) so if they are guessing fastball and you have a good change that looks like a fastball they will be way out in front because they think you just threw them a fastball down the middle. Now, a LH hitter sees the ball worse and later from a LH pitcher. Therefore, since it will take the LH hitter a little longer to see the pitch and recognize it as a "straight pitch" (fastball, changeup; rather than a curve or slider) and by throwing it a little slower you just gave him the extra time back that it took him to recognize the pitch. If you would have thrown a fastball he would have recognized it too late a been behind it, but by slowing the pitch down you give the hitter a chance to catch up. As mentioned above, this is more pronounced in a L-L matchup because they are more rare than a R-R matchup and the LH hitter is not as used to recognizing pitches from a LHP than a RH hitter is against RHP.

 

Also, the word changeup is really spelled wrong because the name for the pitch comes from the phrase "change-of-pace", so the nickname became a "change-op" not a changeup.

[BoKnowsBall]

It is somewhat seeing the ball but it is also the basic mechanics of throwing the ball. Lefties will throw the ball to right handers and away from lefties just because of where they release the ball and where the plate is and righties will do the opposite. Because of the movement of the baseball on a changeup the opposite becomes true.

[southpaw121505]

Flat out wrong. More lefties have a natural tail to their ball, this includes their change UP. Righties can have good change UPS but not many throw circle change UPS. Most righties, even ones with good change UPS throw more of a straight change that might have some sink but not as much tail and screw ball effect.

 

You can call it a change of pace, many people do, but the pitch is called a chage UP

 

http://www.thecompletepitcher.com/pitching_grips.htm#q4

 

http://baseball.about.com/od/howtoplay/ss/changeup.htm

 

http://baseballtips.com/pitches.html

 

http://www.philliesdigest.com/?p=915

 

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/195902/guide_to_the_different_types_of_pitches.html

 

http://www.thepitchingacademy.net/

[topper09er]

OK, I even spelled it changeup in my post because that is what it is called today, I was just mentioning that no ones knows it evolves from change-op because if you think about it, what does "changeup" mean?

 

Also, I was clearly not talking about whether more lefties have a natural tail based on the fact that more lefties throw circle changes, I was talking about your theory that someone who left handed naturally has more ability to cause a baseball to move in a certain direction, which is rediculous. As I said, if 2 pitchers throw the same exact pitch with the same exact release both pitches will move exactly the same amount. If you have a lefty pitching S-N and a righty throwing E-W and factor in the rotation of the earth you might have something, but other than that there is nothing inherantly special about left handed people that give them an advantage at causing baseball to tail.

 

Have you been watching Hoff this year at all??? When his changeup is on that thing tails back across the plate a huge amount for a significant "screwball tail."

[southpaw121505]

I believe more lhp have natural tail on their ball, you don't, agree to disagree.

[mletto157]

southpaw - what about the physical makeup of a left-handed person would give them the inherant ability to have more movement on their pitches than a right-handed person? I guess I just don't understand this logic.

[southpaw121505]

It's not an ability I just said MORE lefties have natural tail. Maybe my perception is skewed from my personal experience because I can't throw a ball straight to save my life and most lefties I know or have played with are the same way. In the baseball circles I've been in this is a common thing so I'm surprised baseball people are disputing it. I'm not saying it's a skill or learned thing, maybe it's as simple as more lefties throw 3/4 and get natural movement that way. I'm not saying righties can't make their ball move or lefties have some skill righties aren't capable of, just from my experiences more lefties have natural tail on their ball.

[topper09er]

I agree, just after reading this:

 

"Lefties change ups do have more of a natural screw ball effect than a righties"

 

I though you were trying to argue that leftys have more movement based on the fact that they are left handed, not that they tend to have different arm slots and pitch grips on average.

 

If you ever have to save your life by throwing a baseball staright just throw it from over the top like JJ hardy and you wont be able to make it tail if you try.

[mletto157]

Agreed. That makes much more sense. I believe it definitely has to do with more lefties throwing 3/4 or side armed than righties. I was in the same boat as topper in thinking you were saying that just because they were left-handed they would have more movement on their ball.