Gamel situation

[endaround]

They have 5 people capable of filling in at 2B (McGehee, Counsell, Hall, Iribarren, and Heether) at an average or above level. Unless that 2B is named Utley you're not getting much improvemnt there.

[mkm13]

Average or above average compared to what? The 5 guys you listed are not all average or above average 2nd basemen at the major league level.

[Postseason2006]

I am getting more and more frustrated with the situation day by day. If he's not going to play against RH pitchers then send him down. Just total ineptness by Macha and Melvin.

[The Truth]

It makes me wonder if there's some sort of power struggle going on between Macha and Melvin, like maybe they disagree on whether Gamel is MLB ready right now. Considering the possibility that neither will be employed by the Brewers by the time Gamel is free agency eligible, somebody needs to step in and rectify the situation.

[JJHardy7]

I'm not a 'I told you so' kind of guy, but when Nelson was released and the moves that followed I posted numerous times (probably too many) that this team didn't have a plan. It wasn't that Nelson was an all-star or anything like that. My point was a guy like Nelson could sit on the bench and not play and then PH. It really wouldn't hurt his development. Nelson would be a much better option right now than Gamel given his position on the team. You never put your best hitting prospect in the boat that Gamel is. I'm embarassed with how this has gone. For all the posts about it's about the Brewers not Gamel, it's about winning, etc. etc....how many teams call up their #1 hitting prospect and have him rot on the bench? And please...don't give me the regular playing time piece...even when he was playing I posted facts about how he really wasn't playing for any rhyme or reason. Regular playing time IMO = you play on given circumstances or have a plan. The Brewers never had that with Gamel. The 'getting his feet wet' before the road AL games has turned into Gamel riding the bench. Why?

I know some have posted 'there's a move to be made, etc'. There isn't. Even if there is..what the heck are the Brewers doing? You can easily book Mat a flight to Nashville so he can actually play. I know I was more pro-Yost than most here, but Macha has his own flaws. I'm sure there will be 'fire Macha' threads sooner or later. If Macha doesn't want to play Mat, send him to Nashville. I know we debate back and forth about streakiness, but does anyone here believe that Casey is going to be a lifetime .300 hitter? Even if he is he can play 2B. There's zero reason as to why Gamel is on the bench and for that I'm anti-Macha. Put the best players on the field and I still think Gamel is one of the best hitters on this team...if you actually play him.

[Diskono]

Doug Melvin isn't a moron, and neither is Ken Macha. I'm sure this is all very much on both of their minds, and I'm sure they will make a decision soon to get Gamel more playing time. But a couple weeks of sporadic playing time for a prospect isn't the end of the world...he's not going to magically transform into Sean Berry just because he didn't start today.

[monty57]

It makes me wonder if there's some sort of power struggle going on between Macha and Melvin

 

Isn't that what got Melvin fired in Oakland? I've kind of wondered if Macha was showing who's in charge of the lineup by sitting Gamel. I hope that's not the case, as screwing with your top prospect over "office politics" is a bad idea.

 

 

And JJ, TheCrew is right. I am on board with you and the others who are upset with what's going on with Gamel.

[shelmark]

I can't believe how overblown this situation is getting. The guy is struggling to get the ball out of the infield so he isn't playing much. Now we suddenly have a power struggle going on? Gamel is not going to lose all skill in a 2-3 month period of not playing that much. I do think he should be sent down, simply because he isn't helping us. The guy is no Prince or Braun, and should not be on the no-trade list.

[mkm13]

Not many people are Prince or Braun. I am not sure that is saying much. However, if he is able to stick at 3rd, he will be playing a more important defensive position than either of them. Either way, the sample size combined with his sporatic playing time make it impossible at this point to say just how good he will be. It is very difficult for a young player to get spot playing time and keep his timing down and remain successful. If I remember right when Prince was brought up at 1st he was used in a DH role and he was not very successful with it.

 

Again, Gamel in this role is not going to help the team much. Give the kid consistent playing time wherever he is playing. He is a streaky hitter, let him get his timeing down and see what happens. I don't care if it is in AAA or the majors.

[trwi7]

The guy is struggling to get the ball out of the infield so he isn't playing much.

 

So is Hart, Gerut, Hall, Kendall, Counsell and Cameron, yet they all continue to play more than Gamel, save Gerut. And maybe he's struggling because he's a young player who's barely getting any playing time and when he is, it's usually as a pinch hitter coming off the bench.

 

Gamel is not going to lose all skill in a 2-3 month period of not playing that much.

 

Again, you're completely missing the point of the argument that is going on here. He's our top prospect. If your top prospect is in the majors, you play him. If you're not comfortable with your top prospect playing in the majors for whatever reason, then he should be in the minors getting everyday at bats and not wasting valuable service time on the bench.

 

The guy is no Prince or Braun

 

What exactly does this have to do with the discussion at hand?

[shelmark]

I'm sorry if I completely miss the point of the discussion, although I think there are actually several discussions here. I guess I don't see Gamel being anything special, so I'm not getting all excited about the situation. My point was that I think we can trust the Brewers to do the right thing, and I don't like the implication that Macha and Melvin are not on the same page. Mags has a knee issue right now, so they are concerned about playing him every day. Gamel is the alternative right now. I think Gamel will be sent down over the break. I guess when I read some posts it seems that fans get so excited if a supposed top prospect is not playing every day. He has actually played quite a bit, albeit not lately. Sorry I missed the point of your discussion. I trust the brass and Gams will be fine.

[Ennder]

I agree that the situation has been overblown in general but it really is getting a bit silly at this point. The last week or so he just hasn't been playing enough period. He doesn't need to play every day like people suggest either, playing 4-5 days a week isn't somehow destroying his future or anything, but playing 1 or 2 times a week really isn't enough.

[Ayt]

I can't believe how overblown this situation is getting. The guy is struggling to get the ball out of the infield so he isn't playing much. Now we suddenly have a power struggle going on? Gamel is not going to lose all skill in a 2-3 month period of not playing that much. I do think he should be sent down, simply because he isn't helping us. The guy is no Prince or Braun, and should not be on the no-trade list.

You realize Gamel is one of the elite prospects in baseball, correct? He's a huge part of the Brewers future.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I think that Doug and Ken will ultimately decide to send Gamel down to Nashville for the time being. I think it's a good idea to ride McGehee at 3b while he's hot. I think that if he cools off considerably, or if Counsell starts to wear down, we may see Gamel back up in the majors before September. I think it makes a lot of sense to give Gamel the chance to get regular at-bats in Nashville for now, and give McGehee the chance he deserves as the everyday 3b. Maybe the Hurricane can be more effective as a bench player who gets a few starts a week.

[DHonks]

Ender, my issue is that Gamel is playing 1-2 days per week. When he gets to pinch hit, he's been drawing walks. Even with his low batting average, his OBP has been nice.

 

What baffles me is this:

1) Counsell has a bad knee and needs rest

2) McGehee has a bad knee and needs rest

3) McGehee has been making a few bad throws and errors lately (luckily Prince is having a career year on defense)

4) Hall can't hit .200

 

At this point, Gamel needs to be playing 3-4 times per week. If he's not going to play that much, they need to replace him with Iribarren. The Hurricane played some 3b earlier this year and is a lesser prospect, so riding the bench won't be so upsetting.

[southpaw121505]

I'm not a 'I told you so' kind of guy, but when Nelson was released and the moves that followed I posted numerous times (probably too many) that this team didn't have a plan. It wasn't that Nelson was an all-star or anything like that. My point was a guy like Nelson could sit on the bench and not play and then PH. It really wouldn't hurt his development. Nelson would be a much better option right now than Gamel given his position on the team. You never put your best hitting prospect in the boat that Gamel is. I'm embarassed with how this has gone. For all the posts about it's about the Brewers not Gamel, it's about winning, etc. etc....how many teams call up their #1 hitting prospect and have him rot on the bench? And please...don't give me the regular playing time piece...even when he was playing I posted facts about how he really wasn't playing for any rhyme or reason. Regular playing time IMO = you play on given circumstances or have a plan. The Brewers never had that with Gamel. The 'getting his feet wet' before the road AL games has turned into Gamel riding the bench. Why?

I know some have posted 'there's a move to be made, etc'. There isn't. Even if there is..what the heck are the Brewers doing? You can easily book Mat a flight to Nashville so he can actually play. I know I was more pro-Yost than most here, but Macha has his own flaws. I'm sure there will be 'fire Macha' threads sooner or later. If Macha doesn't want to play Mat, send him to Nashville. I know we debate back and forth about streakiness, but does anyone here believe that Casey is going to be a lifetime .300 hitter? Even if he is he can play 2B. There's zero reason as to why Gamel is on the bench and for that I'm anti-Macha. Put the best players on the field and I still think Gamel is one of the best hitters on this team...if you actually play him.

I agree with all of this, I would've kept Nelson in that role, not send him down, not release him. His 0 for whatever streak didn't sink the team it was one AB a game. He seemed like an ideal bench guy, has some pop, not a great defender but playable at a few different spots in a pinch. I thought we should have given him more time to try and grow into that role.

 

 

 

But a couple weeks of sporadic playing time for a prospect isn't the end of the world...he's not going to magically transform into Sean Berry just because he didn't start today.

It's not "the end of the world" but that doesn't make it okay or right. He's still developing as a player and he doesn't develop sitting on the bench. No one is saying by not playing he'll turn bad, but by not playing he's not getting as good (as quickly) as most of us think he can. Why can't JJ sit a few games with Counsell sliding over and why can't Counsell sit a few more to try and ensure he stays fresh into September and October.

 

 

 

I'm sorry if I completely miss the point of the discussion, although I think there are actually several discussions here. I guess I don't see Gamel being anything special, so I'm not getting all excited about the situation. My point was that I think we can trust the Brewers to do the right thing, and I don't like the implication that Macha and Melvin are not on the same page. Mags has a knee issue right now, so they are concerned about playing him every day. Gamel is the alternative right now. I think Gamel will be sent down over the break. I guess when I read some posts it seems that fans get so excited if a supposed top prospect is not playing every day. He has actually played quite a bit, albeit not lately. Sorry I missed the point of your discussion. I trust the brass and Gams will be fine.

 

This entire post makes me want to pull my hair out.

[igor67]

Just as importantly for the performance matters argument with yesterday's walk Gamel trails Counsell by only .013 OBP points and .028 SLG points. Those are significant differences over the course of a season, but new batting stance or not Gamel is a much better bet going forward to catch and surpass Craig's numbers than not. With the number of ABs Gamel has had he could catch Counsell with 1 good day at the plate. This isn't even about Gamel's development, as in the bigger picture getting Gamel going gives you the boost of a trade and you let Casey settle in at second since he's hitting really well.

[JohnBriggs12]

There certainly is a disconnect between the idea that Gamel is this untouchable prospect that can't be dealt and his current role on team. There's an awful lot at work here though. They want Hardy to get hot so they aren't sitting him in favor of Counsell at SS. The obvious thinking is that Hardy is going to be the centerpiece of an offseason deal for pitching and they want him to bring back as much as possible. They also see Counsell right now as a guy they can rely on to get on in front of Braun and Fielder and their risking he won't wear down by sitting vs. lefthanders.

 

That leaves McGehee who for now has clearly won an everyday spot in the lineup either at 3B or 2B vs. lefthanders. His production batting behind Fielder is one of the things they've been lacking.

 

I think the solution is to send Gamel down now and get his bat going and stick him in RF a few times. They have Catalanotto and Gerut as lefty bench bats. They don't need 3. They might be better served with Bourgeois as guy who could do some things off the bench and even spell Cameron.

 

Ultimately I think McGehee (and to a lesser extent Heether) have made Gamel's future at 3B very cloudy. If Gamel's going to stay in Brewer plans, he needs time in RF.

[JJHardy7]

Doug Melvin isn't a moron, and neither is Ken Macha. I'm sure this is all very much on both of their minds, and I'm sure they will make a decision soon to get Gamel more playing time. But a couple weeks of sporadic playing time for a prospect isn't the end of the world...he's not going to magically transform into Sean Berry just because he didn't start today.

I don't think anyone is Melving a moron...it's just strange to have one of the best prospects in all of baseball sitting on the bench. Gamel is good...he's really good. He might not be Braun or Fielder, but I also don't think he's just going to be an average player. Let's also forget the fact that 'Gamel has been playing a lot'. He hasn't. That's not true. He should've only been up for the AL road games and that's it. There's no point in wasting service time right now.

The most important thing here is we've wasted development time for Gamel. Folks need to remember there's less than two months (with a few playoff games) for Nashville. I doubt the Brewers call Gamel up in September and start him everyday. Gamel has lost quite a bit of development time and he's at a pretty critical age. This situation isn'r all that difficult by any means...if you're going to call one of the best propects in baseball you play him or keep in him in AAA. I can understand him being a PH during games between the AL road games, but Gamel should've been called up immediately prior to those games and sent down immediately after.

[kramnoj]

Per a recent AM note, the Gamel Situation may be resolved Monday. I had thought this would be a good time to send down Gamel so he could play over the ASB, but didn't realize that the Sounds have a 4 day break as well. Would the Brewers send him down to Nashville and then send him to BC over the ASB to get a few more games in, or would they think that a couple days vacation would do him some good?

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

They will need a pitcher before Saturday. Maybe Gamel goes down and then another pitcher goes down after the break. Given their options for starters, they may need an extra arm for a bit especially if it's Parra. Then bring Hurricane up. Gamel could really help us down the stretch after a month on Nashville.

[RightFieldCoder]

Here's what I see:

Gamel stays in the majors and starts 1-2 games a week and ph:

Doesn't get much better this year. Enters arbitration in 2011.

 

Gamel stays in the majors and starts 4-6 games a week:

Develops with regular playing time. Enters arbitration in 2011.

 

Gamel goes down to Nashville before the trading deadline:

Develops with regular playing time. Enters arbitration in 2012.

 

To me, the first option is the worst option unless the Brewers plan on trading him before arbitration.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Here's what I see:

Gamel stays in the majors and starts 1-2 games a week and ph:

Doesn't get much better this year. Enters arbitration in 2011.

 

Gamel stays in the majors and starts 4-6 games a week:

Develops with regular playing time. Enters arbitration in 2011.

 

Gamel goes down to Nashville before the trading deadline:

Develops with regular playing time. Enters arbitration in 2012.

 

To me, the first option is the worst option unless the Brewers plan on trading him before arbitration.

I don't like the first option, and based on how McGehee is playing the second option won't happen. I like the third option the best for right now.

[Ennder]

The plan could easily have been to send Gamel down last week and then Counsell's knee acted up and McGehee had the minor injury so they kept him up as insurance. That would make sense given how things ended up playing out, assuming they do send him down next week at least.

[JJHardy7]

Would the Brewers send him down to Nashville and then send him to BC over the ASB to get a few more games in, or would they think that a couple days vacation would do him some good?

I'd like to see that. I doubt it would happen though given they haven't been too worried about playing time. Maybe they send him down and just give him a break?

Robin19...I like your analysis here. I think it's important to remember that Gamel isn't a fringe minor leaguer or AAAA like Nelson maybe is. He's one of the best prospects in baseball. I can't think of too many top prospects that have gotten better by being on the bench and/or not getting regular playing time.

The plan could easily have been to send Gamel down last week and then Counsell's knee acted up and McGehee had the minor injury so they kept him up as insurance. That would make sense given how things ended up playing out, assuming they do send him down next week at least.

That's fine and all, but what was the original plan? He was called up too early and they've left him in Milwaukee too long. If they want an insurance type guy, Heether would be the guy to go with. I'm not sure how well he'll do...but he's done all you can ask and more. I'd much rather have him in Milwaukee given the limited playing time since Heether can field multiple positions. That makes the most sense to me.