Gamel situation

[bklynbrewcrew]

It has become obvious at this point that Mat Gamel is not going to be given a fair chance to play every day. Against RHP McGehee is playing third and Counsell is playing second. Against LHP Hall plays third and McGehee switches to second. With McGehee so hot I can understand him playing every day but Gamel should be playing instead of Counsell. Why exactly are we wasting Gamel's service time for him to be a part time player? This is no way to handle a great young player. He either needs to be playing every day here or if not let him develop in AAA. Using him part time and as a pinch hitter is a waste in my opinion.

 

I blame Melvin for this. I dont think Macha likes Gamel and it is Melvin's job as the GM to force Macha to play him or send him down to AAA. Doug cant possibly think its good for Mat's development to sit on the bench. I am sorry for the rant but this situation is bothering me more each day.

[trwi7]

It's one of my rants as well and it's inexcusable. Either play him everyday or send him down. Sitting on the bench doesn't help the Brewers and it doesn't help Gamel either.

[DonMoney4Mgr]

I think Macha is putting what he believes is his best everyday lineup, Gamel's development notwithstanding. Personally, I would rather Counsel be a 4 day a week type player to keep him fresh and productive at age 38. This could occur by giving Hardy a day or two off per week due to his ineffectiveness. When Hardy sits against certain righties, it could be Gamel at third, Mcghee at 2nd and Counsel at short.

 

But I agree that if Gamel's not going to play up here, send him down.

[lcbj68c]

I've long contended that Gamel getting pre-game time EVERY DAY with Randolph/Sveum is more important than 2 plays per night at Nashville. Now, if you argue that it is hurting the Brewers, I'll agree with that, but I don't think it is hurting Gamel's development. Just the opposite, IMO.

[Never Outhustled]

I was OK with Gamel being the lefty part of a platoon, but now that he's not even that, he needs to be sent down. Heether can come up and platoon with Counsel at 2B, with McGehee playing fulltime at 3B. There was no way to predict McGehee would turn out this good, or at least have this big of a hot streak.

[lcbj68c]

I dont think Macha likes Gamel

 

 

 

What???? What is this based upon? A vibe? An observation? Could you expound on this?

[trwi7]

What exactly are Randolph and Sveum teaching him that Don Money couldn't?

[davego]

Maybe it's simply that there are more bodies to coach him @ the ML-level. Not saying I agree with Mat being here and sitting...just wonder if that is the thought process by DM, et al.

[TheCrew07]

My argument against this now is not about development as much as it is about service time, originally I was not concerned with service time because Gamel was getting better coaching in Milwaukee and I figured it was only a matter of time before he became a full time platoon player at 3B. I didn't care of they brought up Gamel this year because I hope they'll sign to Braunesque deal buying out a couple of years of FA which would put him the wrong side of 30 by the end of his contract. However to have him sitting around on the bench everyday accumulating service time is short sighted, if that's his role then why not dump Koshansky from Nashville, add Heether to the 40 man, and flip flop Gamel and Heether around and let Adam ride the pine? Heether has more versatility on the bench, though he's not left handed.

 

Didn't Macha say a week or so ago that Gamel was going to get an extended look at 3B? Maybe he meant in 2010...

[lcbj68c]

I presume there is a reason Don Money is not at the ML-level. Most certainly there are more resources here to work with Mat 1-on-1 on a daily basis as opposed to Money who must manage that ballclub.

[TheCrew07]

What exactly are Randolph and Sveum teaching him that Don Money couldn't?

I think they have more time to break him down and work on specific issues simply because they have more coaches. I'm not sure exactly how much work can be done before an MiLB game... they only have 3 coaches and need to get bullpens and batting practice done for everyone.

[JJHardy7]

I presume there is a reason Don Money is not at the ML-level. Most certainly there are more resources here to work with Mat 1-on-1 on a daily basis as opposed to Money who must manage that ballclub.

 

Money is just as good of a coach as any guy in Milwaukee when it comes to helping Mat. If there is a difference, it's not huge. I think getting the practice time and live game time would be the ideal situation. I've posted this enough here so I won't get into it, but it just doesn't seem like there was/is a plan for Mat.

[lcbj68c]

I think there is a plan for Mat, I just don't like the plan. The plan is for him to spot-start twice per week and be a LH pinch hit bat. It serves it's purpose, but not the best option IMO. We'll just have to disagree that the coaching is better at Milwaukee than Nashville. Don Money has so many managing responsibilities as do the other coaches like TheCrew07 mentioned. Small sample size surely, but I think the time Randolph and Sveum have spent with him on a daily basis has paid off.

[owbc]

He seems to be taking more walks than he was a few weeks ago. That being said, he really hasn't shown much at the plate and I can't think of a good argument why he should start over McGehee or Counsell. I assume they originally were planning on starting him at 3B but that got thrown out the window when McGehee got hot.

 

I can't really pick a side on the coaching vs. playing argument, but it's clear he has to start at least a few times/week or he will probably fall into the same trap that most pinch hitters do.

[Thurston Fluff]

I presume there is a reason Don Money is not at the ML-level. Most certainly there are more resources here to work with Mat 1-on-1 on a daily basis as opposed to Money who must manage that ballclub.

 

Couldn't disagree more with this. The minors are developmental leagues set up specifically to help young prospects develop. The coaches in the minors have roving instructors as well as the staff. They spend far more time with developing the rising young prospects than they are the 30 something roster fillers. The major league coaches must spend their time with all the players on the roster not specific players on the team. Develop players in the developmental leagues set up for them not on the bench with coaches who are expected to put time in with every player.

[dadofandrew]

Right now, the Crew will go with the best 25 man roster, taking salary into account, as this is the real world. Last year, they won the wildcard by a single game. Right now, Counsell is far better defensively than Mat, and his OBP is outstanding. Ditto for McGehee. They are not in rebuilding mode, and are not going to play a prospect just to play him.

 

It's the big leagues, it is not meant to develop. Gamel is up until a better alternative comes along.

[endaround]

There is a better alternative, that's the whole point. Heether over 150-200 PAs would be almost the same as Gamel and there's no reason to worry about development, service time or defense.

[TheCrew07]

I presume there is a reason Don Money is not at the ML-level. Most certainly there are more resources here to work with Mat 1-on-1 on a daily basis as opposed to Money who must manage that ballclub.

 

Couldn't disagree more with this. The minors are developmental leagues set up specifically to help young prospects develop. The coaches in the minors have roving instructors as well as the staff. They spend far more time with developing the rising young prospects than they are the 30 something roster fillers. The major league coaches must spend their time with all the players on the roster not specific players on the team. Develop players in the developmental leagues set up for them not on the bench with coaches who are expected to put time in with every player.

If you can prove that players get individual instruction in the minors I would love to be proven wrong. The lack of individual instruction was why the roving instructors originally came into being. Maybe Brooks will see this thread and comment on what truly happens in the minors. I can tell you this, the Green Bay Bullfrog players don't work on defense much at all, they took batting practice and that was about it. I realize the coaches don't have anything invested in the players for college summer league baseball, but the lifestyle is similar and gives the kids an idea of what they can expect if they get drafted.

[dadofandrew]

I don't see Heether as a better alternative as a PH, or at 3B, especially versus a RHP.

[logan82]

With McGehee so hot I can understand him playing every day

 

I can go along with Macha if he is playing McGehee if he legitimately thinks McGehee is a better player than Gamel or our other alternatives. If Macha is playing him just because he is hot, Macha is making a huge mistake.

[Hammer]

How about the idea that Looper is an extreme groundball pitcher? Gamel is not a great fielder. Hence, Gamel gets tonight off. Is this such a hard stretch?

[dadofandrew]

It's the big leagues, you play whoever gives you the best chance to win (if you're a contender). Most games, right now at least, I'd go with Craig and Casey, and Macha seems to agree. You can make an argument they should send him to AAA and have another lefty bat on the bench, but I'm not sure why anyone thinks Gamel is a better option than either incumbent.

 

Mat's going to be penciled into a starting spot somewhere in '10. Today, he's not.

[shelmark]

I think Gamel should be sent down, not because he isn't playing much but rather because he is not ready. He rarely hits the ball hard, swings and misses at very hittable fastballs, and appears off balance. Send him down when we trade for Felipe Lopez on Thursday.

[Never Outhustled]

You can make an argument they should send him to AAA and have another lefty bat on the bench, but I'm not sure why anyone thinks Gamel is a better option than either incumbent.

Thats the argument everyone is making, if Gamel doesn't even have a part time starting job send him to AAA. Bring up Heether to platoon with Counsel. Heether is actally outhitting what Gamel did in AAA. We don't need another lefty bat on the bench, Cat and Gerut need more ABs.

[logan82]

Is McGehee really a dramatically better defender than Gamel though, especially when McGehee is playing on a bum knee and ankle? I have my doubts about McGehee being a better option with the bat than Gamel. The only arguement to play McGehee over Gamel is if he is a much better fielder.

 

I'm not sure why anyone thinks Gamel is a better option than either incumbent.

 

I am not sure why anybody thinks McGehee is a better hitter than Gamel when his best year since 2006 is an OPS of .774 in AAA. Third go around in AAA no less. There is little to suggest(stats form only this season) we should expect McGehee to hit better than Gamel.