Does this team need another hitter?

[Invader3K]

After attending yesterday's loss to the Twins, I got to thinking. I realize this team's pitching situation is in shambles right now, and that if a move is going to be made, it will likely be for another starting pitcher. However, looking at the Brewers' current lineup, does anyone else think they could really use a legitimate #5 type hitter? The offense seems to mostly be the Braun & Prince Show, with contributions from Counsell and McGehee. Gamel is intriguing, but being a rookie we don't really know what we have there yet. Hart, Cameron, and Hardy have been scuffling, Hall is probably benched for the most part, and Kendall is what we pretty much expected. I just wonder if Melvin might not make a move for someone to give Fielder some real lineup protection. I doubt we'll land a Matt Holliday or Adam Dunn, but could there be someone out there Melvin could get for a relatively cheap price that might boost the lineup a bit?

[paulmolitor4]

Two players that I think would help give the Brewers a chance this year would be Erik Bedard and Jermaine Dye. Bedard fills a role as a legit top of the rotation lefthanded starter, and Dye gives you a solid righthanded bat to protect Fielder. Of course, it all depends on how much you have to give up to get them. And put me on record as saying Hardy and Hart are very much expendable. Yes, their bats can be replaced.

[The Truth]

Yes, to be a true pennant contender the Brewers could definitely use another hitter who strikes fear in the competition. Jermaine Dye or Adam Dunn would make the Brewers a better team.

 

That said, if we had a lot more pitching, we have enough hitting to contend. But I don't see us picking up another truely great pitcher let alone 2 more, this season. I keep thinking that Hardy will return to career average hitting, which means he'll go on a tear for a month or so coming up where he hits .355 with a bunch of HR's. Anytime you are ready JJ would be fine with me...

[nate82]

Yes this team does need another hitter. David DeJesus comes up a lot around here and it looks like he is finally available in a trade this year. I wouldn't trade Hart for DeJesus or anything major but Heether or someone else in AAA could get DeJesus. You could even platoon DeJesus with Hart and have DeJesus bat leadoff giving Counsell a couple more days off a week and also giving Hardy a day off here and there. But that would move McGehee into a more of a starters role but I could live with that you can always have Hall play a couple of games against a lefty here and there at 2B.

 

If Carlos Guillen didn't completely suck I wouldn't be apposed to a Hart, Hall, and a low minor league player for Meche and Guillen. The Royals would probably have to send a minor league player also to the Brewers or take on some of Guillen's salary.

[pogokat]

You mean Jose...Carlos sucks for the Tigers

[Invader3K]

I like the Dye idea, though he isn't cheap even as a rental (I think we'd have to pay him like $5 or 6 million yet this year, and he has a buyout for next season around $1 million).

 

Doing something with the Royals is also interesting, but I don't think the Brewers would want to take on Meche's contract (assuming Melvin would try to get pitching in a deal with them). DeJesus would be an OK option, even if he's not really exciting. He's only hitting .246 right now, but that's low for him, and he'll likely raise that average before the season is done.

[TooLiveBrew]

I don't like giving up on Hart to add an aging Dye. The only spots at which I think the Brewers should be looking to upgrade, in order of priority, are C & 2B (short-term though, since I'm a Weeks lover).

[brewmann04]

YES w/o question the team needs a bat especially a #5 behind Prince.

[Invader3K]

OK, I know this probably won't happen, but would it be so crazy to trade Hart to the Nationals for Adam Dunn? Dunn's contract is not bad at all, and Braun/Fielder/Dunn in the middle of the lineup would be truly scary for opponents. Yeah, his defense is bad, but you could move Braun to RF and let Dunn play LF. Cameron's range in CF would help limit Dunn's liabilities for at least the rest of this season. Then, by the time Dunn's contract is up at the end of next season, the Brewers would hopefully have a replacement outfielder ready in the minors.

[BrewCrewRising]

OK, I know this probably won't happen, but would it be so crazy to trade Hart to the Nationals for Adam Dunn? Dunn's contract is not bad at all, and Braun/Fielder/Dunn in the middle of the lineup would be truly scary for opponents. Yeah, his defense is bad, but you could move Braun to RF and let Dunn play LF. Cameron's range in CF would help limit Dunn's liabilities for at least the rest of this season. Then, by the time Dunn's contract is up at the end of next season, the Brewers would hopefully have a replacement outfielder ready in the minors.

I think it would be crazy in terms of spending more by spending too late. In the off season we could have signed Dunn. Granted, we would have lost a pick, but then we would have been able to have dealt Hart for something of value. Though he sucked at the end of last season, that suckitude was a relative anamoly in his career numbers. It was much less of a scratch on the finish than last year's crash with this year's slumps are.

 

So, had we signed Dunn and traded Hart, we'd be up by some close to MLB ready prospect, or a MLB player, and have Dunn. If we trade now, then all we really have is this year's pick, and a hole to address at the end of next season (and I have to admit I don't know if there's somebody waiting in things that could make this a moot point.).

 

But like you said, I don't think it would happen. Not DM's style to give up on a player he likes and who is not flaming out completely, for a pricier option.

 

I like the creative solution for picking up another bat though.

[Invader3K]

I think you said it as far as how Doug Melvin operates. However, I'd hope he could take a step back and take an honest look at what would be best for the team right now.

[BADGERJOBOB]

This team has problems. It needs 2 new starting pitchers, and at least one more hitter who gets on base consistently in order to have a legitimate chance of making the playoffs. Problem is, this is not a new problem as it was quite evident before the season even started. The starting pitching staff was average at best and well we haven't received the best except for one month out of the season.

 

Its best now to not mortgage the future and just try to get through the season as best as we can with what we have. Stranger things have happened and maybe the pitching staff or hitters go on an insane hot streak. In other words, we made our beds this off season with little to no real moves and built our expectations on best case scenarios that never materialized. Worry about fixing this team in the off-season, not now when it costs way too much to make good moves.

[The Truth]

I don't like giving up on Hart to add an aging Dye.

I'm curious as to how high of a ceiling you think Hart has? Just how good can Hart be? (Potentially)

[Hate those Rodents]

This team needs a few things. Possibly a few too many to make it worth giving up minor league talent for if at least 20 of the 25 man roster doesn't play at or above expectations. Right now, I'd say about 12/13 or half of the roster is playing at or above expecations, and that's not going to cut it no matter who is added.

[logan82]

Not sure how much Cameron's range would help cover up Dunn's defensive deficiencies. He can barely field balls hit right at him. I am surprised he ins't a 1B yet.

[TooLiveBrew]

I'm curious as to how high of a ceiling you think Hart has? Just how good can Hart be? (Potentially)

 

Honestly, I would never even pretend to be knowledgeable enough to predict that. I will give my rough guess, but the main point to me is that Corey through at least 2011 >>>>> a partial season of Dye. Fwiw, Corey is making $3.25M this season to Dye's $11.5M (and he has a $12M mutual option for '10, with a $1M buyout).

 

For Hart, I think he's going to produce in the neighborhood of a .340 OBP/.475+ SLG for years to come. And of course his defense in RF is a nice plus, to boot.

[yount19.u]

A hitter wouldn't hurt, but this team needs to focus all its energy and resources on improving the starting pitching. The offense is struggling and still putting up 3-4 runs per game. They are frustrating as hell to watch sometimes, but it's still one of better offenses in the National League. An almost complete lack of consistent starting pitching is ruining this team, and it's starting to trickle down to the bullpen (getting worn down from overuse) and offense (pressing too hard knowing they have to score a lot). The offense, as it's constructed now, is more than sufficient if this team could procure some reliable starting pitching.

[Never Outhustled]

A hitter wouldn't hurt, but this team needs to focus all its energy and resources on improving the starting pitching. The offense is struggling and still putting up 3-4 runs per game.

I agree with this. This team could really use a big time hitting SS, and Hardy's numbers should start to even out pretty soon. If/when he goes on one of his trademark hot streaks, he could carry this team for a good long while. Also, the fact that Hall has played himself out of the lineup, while McGehee has stepped forward, helps.

[nate82]

I think it would be crazy in terms of spending more by spending too late. In the off season we could have signed Dunn. Granted, we would have lost a pick, but then we would have been able to have dealt Hart for something of value.

No we wouldn't have lost a pick if we would have signed Dunn. The Diamondbacks didn't offer Dunn arbitration so they didn't get a pick this year when they lost him.

[benji]

As of today, the Brewers are 5th in scoring (essentially 4th since florida has scored two more runs in two more games played) 5th in team OPS and 5th in OBP in the national league according to espn stats. As much as hart and hardy have underperformed, the offense seems to be enough to win the division. I think the team needs to use all its resources for a quality starting pitcher.

[endaround]

Dunn's defense is so bad that Hart to Dunn is pretty much a wash. Basically 2B is the only place the Brewers can really look to upgrade.

[BADGERJOBOB]

As of today, the Brewers are 5th in scoring (essentially 4th since florida has scored two more runs in two more games played) 5th in team OPS and 5th in OBP in the national league according to espn stats. As much as hart and hardy have underperformed, the offense seems to be enough to win the division. I think the team needs to use all its resources for a quality starting pitcher.

To pick one or the other(I prefer neither), the Brewers need another quality pitcher way more then they need another hitter. Brewers when compared to Cards and Cubs have the least number of games where we scored 3 runs or less and a far worse winning percentage in games where we scored 4 or more runs.

 

Number of games and records in games where teams scored 4 or more runs:

Brewers 52 (36-16, 0.692)

Cubs 43 (34-9, 0.791)

Cardinals 43 (33-10, 0.767)

 

Number of games and records in games where teams scored 3 runs or fewer:

Cardinals 41 (12-29, 0.292)

Cubs 36 (6-30, 0.168); Cubs shutout 8 times to Cards 5 and Brewers 3

Brewers 30 (7-23, 0.233)

[dadofandrew]

4 is always the key number of runs to score...in fact, if you are below .500 when scoring 4, you can pretty much count on the fact your pitching is terrible.

 

It's just like a team's record when not committing an error, it's always very good. That's both an argument for sound defense and against the sacrifice bunt...as if a team simply cannot win by giving up more than 27 outs, it seems to figure they'll have trouble winning only using 25 of their own outs.

[lcbj68c]

I agree and thanks to BadgerBob and AndrewsDaddy for finding some data to back this up. This team needs pitching, preferably a #2 starter capable of being retained beyond 2009. But as I've beaten the dead horse, the time to do so was February 2009. If this team wants hitters, it needs to look no further than it's own bench or in Tennessee. Doing so from their own bench would require them sending Bill Hall to the aforementioned Tennesse and letting Mat Gamel (rumoured to be a great hitter) do just that.

 

You could bring up Alcides Escobar and let JJ Hardy go for some pitching, but that would upset some of the fan base and surely affect the numbers you bring in at the gate from the female delegation.

 

Point is, there are hitters in our organization already and there is depth at hitting available to trade it to get the pitching we so desperately need. Again, that time has passed us by if we dont want to overpay, which nobody seems to want to do.

 

Short answer: We need another hitter to play in the actual game. We don't need to go outside the organization to get one.

[BADGERJOBOB]

4 is always the key number of runs to score...in fact, if you are below .500 when scoring 4, you can pretty much count on the fact your pitching is terrible.

Brewers are 12-13 when scoring 4 or 5 runs in a game.