Dbacks idea - 2 birds, 1 stone?

[dadofandrew]

Lopez would push Gamel to AAA, as Counsell/McGehee/Lopez would have 2B/3B covered. Hall is unmovable barring his release.

[igor67]

Gamel's current fielding percentage is 30 points higher than Braun's historic bad season. To this point his defense has not been the problem, all of the first hand accounts credit Gamel with error proneness combined with good range. Contrast that to Braun's weak range and bad hands at third. His D isn't setting the world on fire right now, but he isn't really being problematic either. Let's just relax a bit and realize that Macha sitting him and their while maybe not ideal isn't dramatically hurting his development either.

[trwi7]

Let's just relax a bit and realize that Macha sitting him and their while maybe not ideal isn't dramatically hurting his development either.

That's not the point. The point is there is no excuse for wasting Gamel's service time on the major league club if you're not going to play him at least 80% of the time. It does nothing for any development he might still have and it might come back to hurt the Brewers financially in a couple years.

[AZBrewCrew]

saw this posted in the az news today....really doesnt say alot but still mentions Lopez and Davis..

 

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/diamondbacks/articles/2009/06/28/20090628dbtrade-CR.html

[kramnoj]

I thought these quotes from Macha were interesting, from: http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/49776922.html

 

"Perhaps, but it's unlikely McClung will get another chance. Manager Ken Macha said that spot would come up once more before the all-star break, a week from Saturday. Asked if McClung would take that turn, Macha wouldn't commit.

 

"I don't know that," said Macha. "(General manager) Doug (Melvin) and I have spoke. A lot of things going into what he's doing. We're going to try to make it work.""

 

Does that sound like a trade should be expected this week? I think Davis is the most likely candidate, and that obviously has some detractors here. So, if this suggests that a Davis type pitcher would be available, what would be a reasonable trade that would make the Diamondbacks make it happen now? I would guess some may be somewhat content with a Katin plus lower pitcher deal, but I can't see that being enticing enough for Arizona. So where's the line? What is the player that would be good enough for the Diamondbacks to grab that wouldn't hurt so much for the Brewers farm system?

[Invader3K]

I don't know...I don't see why the Brewers should have to give up to much to get Davis. He's just a rental, but still one that is owed a decent chunk of change this year. Shouldn't have to give up anything close to what they gave up in the Sabathia trade to get him. Arizona does have the advantage of not too many pitchers being on the market, though.

[brewcrewkid14]

I'm going to be extremely disappointed if Salome is part of a deal for just Davis. Unless it brings Lopez as well. They need to at least save him for a more prominent starting pitcher if they plan on using him as a piece.

 

Gindl+? Katin is interesting as well. It can't be much, though.

[endaround]

I think something like Dillard in a normal season. It maybe more just because the pitchers out there keep dropping.

[yount19.u]

Doug needs to do something quickly. I know he was hoping to wait to see what teams would be sellers closer to the break, but this McClung/Burns experiment will put us out of contention too quick to explore those opportunities. I know Burns has pitched well, but he won't hold up for the rest of the season as a starter. Davis/Lopez is a solid trade for this team that will help on so many fronts. Davis will pitch his 6 innings and help to save the bullpen for the rest of the season. McClung would go back to his strength of pitching one, maybe two, innings out of the pen. Then when Bush is healthy, he comes in to replace Burns and it's like the Brewers made another trade. Burns can go back to the bullpen and still help the team. Lopez will be a nice answer to the lead off problem and provide some more stability for the offense and defense. McGehee goes back to third (his natural position) and Gamel gets some more reps in AAA until September. If Salome gets it done, I say great as long as it's Davis and Lopez. This team would go from having two nearly automatic losses in their rotation to having more of an average pitching staff after the All Star break. And with the offense showing it can still score runs, a little spark at lead off spot won't hurt either. Please make this happen Doug!

 

Edit: This also adds depth to the starting rotation and bullpen. The Brewers could absorb another injury better as they would have Parra/Burns/Cody waiting in the wings for the rotation and Smith/Narveson/Dillard/Swindle for the pen.

[Never Outhustled]

The Brewers have no use for Lopez whatsoever. We don't even have a roster spot for him. Adam Heether's MLEs are better than what Lopez does, and we don't even have room for him. Bush will be back in 2 weeks. The search for a pitcher who is a difference maker should continue. Don't settle for Doug Davis.

[Invader3K]

The Brewers have no use for Lopez whatsoever. We don't even have a roster spot for him. Adam Heether's MLEs are better than what Lopez does, and we don't even have room for him. Bush will be back in 2 weeks. The search for a pitcher who is a difference maker should continue. Don't settle for Doug Davis.

 

It's easy to say "don't settle for Doug Davis", but what else is out there that Melvin could actually acquire right now? If he tries to wait things out too long, the Brewers could slip further out of contention, and there could just as easily still be a drought of quality starting pitchers available. We're not the only team after pitching right now, either. I'm not excited by Davis myself, but we can't let his past performance with this team cloud the fact that he would be a valuable addition at this point. Let's face it, he would step in and instantly be the #2 pitcher on this team right now. I think trading for a Cliff Lee or whoever is simply a pipe dream at this point. We need to set our expectation a bit lower right now, unfortunately.

[Never Outhustled]

Let's face it, he would step in and instantly be the #2 pitcher on this team right now.

Look at his periferils. He's not as good as his ERA. He's no better than the guys we have.

 

If he tries to wait things out too long, the Brewers could slip further out of contention,

We're in 1st place, I don't think 2 more starts by Mike Burns is going to knock us out of contention. McClung only has 1 more start before the break. Bush will be back after the break.

 

Now, if we were to get Davis now, and leave Bedard for the Cards, we would be in serious trouble.

[naivin]

The Price for Bedard is probably not something the Brewers will be willing to pay. Same probably goes for the Cardinals. The way they have been talking the last couple days however, especially after last night, I will be pretty surprised if McClung makes another start. Options are obviously limited, so things could get interesting. I really hope they don't try to rush back Bush or Parra though. I don't think they will.

[Never Outhustled]

The Price for Bedard is probably not something the Brewers will be willing to pay.

Nobody matches up better with Seattle than the Brewers. I'm sure Jack Z sees value in numerous players we have earmarked as future starters. We need to use our minor league depth. I don't see a contender that can make a better offer than the Brewers. Boston could, maybe Tampa,but they aren't looking for a pitcher.

 

The way they have been talking the last couple days however, especially after last night, I will be pretty surprised if McClung makes another start

Giving up on McClung after 2 starts would be about as smart as it would have been if we'd given up on Suppan after 2 starts at the beginning of this year.

[bklynbrewcrew]

I am more than willing to give up on McClung as a starter. He is way too inefficient to ever be a viable starting pitcher. Even when he pitches well he throws over 20 pitches per inning. The guy is a complete bullpen killer with his short starts. I would be more than happy to throw McClung in as part of a package to get a good starting pitcher. Maybe some unsuspecting team will think McClung can close for them.

[naivin]

The Brewers have no use for Lopez whatsoever. We don't even have a roster spot for him. Adam Heether's MLEs are better than what Lopez does, and we don't even have room for him. Bush will be back in 2 weeks. The search for a pitcher who is a difference maker should continue. Don't settle for Doug Davis.

One the one hand I agree, on the other hand, if we can get sustained production out of the lead off spot (something I don't think will happen with Counsell into July/Aug/Sep), the entire offense gets better. Right now because they don't have a lead off hitter, every day sees at least one guy at a spot in the order for which he is not really suited.

 

I like the idea of a difference maker, but I just don't see how it happens from the perspective of the price both in dollars and prospects. If you get a solid innings eater that can get you to the bullpen with a chance to win, and score enough runs, is that enough in a bad division?

 

As far as the roster spot, easy for me to say because its not my money, but both in terms of what could be here now (in theory), and what is coming up behind him sooner than later, I think its time to swallow hard and say goodbye to Bill Hall. The only purpose he is serving now is getting in the way with that huge useless contract.

 

This is probably equally as stupid as eating Hall's contract, but it seems like you almost have to cross your fingers and hope that Parra can pull it together and come back before long and be that difference maker. Let's face it he was the wild card and the key to success before the season started and that seems to still be very much the case. The Brewers needed production from him to have a chance. Still do.

 

I dunno. Maybe they're just screwed, and at the moment the inability to improve can probably be pointed squarely at that ridiculous contract they gave Bill Hall.

[Never Outhustled]

A leadoff hitter is just a baseball player. Our Runs Scored will be based on our team OPS. Theres no adjustment factor for having a "leadoffman". If Counsel slumps, then McGehee can play everyday there, and Gamel can play everyday at 3B. One could make the argument that we should do that now.

 

I'm not sure we should expect Counsel to completely tank, he did get on base well when he got regular playing time last year.

[Weirdos19]

Ask the Cubs about a good lead off hitter.

 

A good lead off hitter has a high OBP and is a great base runner.

[kramnoj]

From: http://milwaukee.brewers....s_mil&fext=.jsp&c_id=mil

 

"When he met with reporters on Friday, Macha still wouldn't rule out McClung, a day after the right-hander surrendered seven runs in 3 1/3 innings.

 

But a more likely scenario could involve general manager Doug Melvin making a trade for a mid-level veteran such the D-backs' Doug Davis. The Brewers' top scout watched Davis pitch on Thursday. "

[wibadgers23]

Another little tidbit about Davis possibly going to the Brewers, courtesy Jon Heyman:

 

Arizona left-hander Doug Davis is enhancing his trade value with a 0.86 ERA over his last three starts, though he hasn't won any of them (stat courtesy of Ed Price of AOL FanHouse). I still like the Brewers to re-acquire Davis, who is 3-8 with a 3.28 ERA overall.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/jon_heyman/07/03/indians.martinez/1.html

[BrewPackBuck]

Another little tidbit about Davis possibly going to the Brewers, courtesy Jon Heyman:

 

Arizona left-hander Doug Davis is enhancing his trade value with a 0.86 ERA over his last three starts, though he hasn't won any of them (stat courtesy of Ed Price of AOL FanHouse). I still like the Brewers to re-acquire Davis, who is 3-8 with a 3.28 ERA overall.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/jon_heyman/07/03/indians.martinez/1.html

I just dont know, I have a bad feeling if we get Davis back he is going to blow up and become useless. I wanted to bash my head on the table whenever he was nibbiling always on the corners and walking a ton of guys. I just dont know we will see how he does if we get him.

[LouisEly]

With Parra coming off of a stellar start in Nashville on Friday, I say let him ride the confidence and momentum from that start and bring him back up. He has to be better than McClung, and he'll only have one start prior to the All-Star break. Then at the all-star break they can re-evaluate where they are, and make the move for Davis if need be.

 

As for Davis, peripherals are fine and dandy, but they don't account for guys ability to handle pressure situations. A veteran like Davis will be more consistent, and thus perhaps a lower ERA. Davis surprisingly has a better OPS-A against righties this year than lefties. I don't think his ERA is all smoke and mirrors.

[JoeHova]

I like trying to get Lopez. I don't really like getting Davis. Been there and so forth.

[fondybrewfan]

I wouldn't totally object to Davis, he would be a major upgrade over Burns/McClung. His peripherals have always sucked yet he has always found a way to minimize damage.

 

If we are going to trade with the Dbacks I would rather get Sherzer but that would be impossible w/o Escobar or Gamel.

[TooLiveBrew]

I like trying to get Lopez. I don't really like getting Davis. Been there and that.

Now Doug can understand it, and hopefully take your advice, Joe http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

 

As for Davis, peripherals are fine and dandy, but they don't account for guys ability to handle pressure situations. A veteran like Davis will be more consistent, and thus perhaps a lower ERA. Davis surprisingly has a better OPS-A against righties this year than lefties. I don't think his ERA is all smoke and mirrors.

 

While I can agree Davis may be more skillful at working out of jams than some pitchers, I don't think adding a 4-4.5 ERA pitcher is the kind of move the Brewers should be investing in at this point. While that kind of pitcher is certainly an upgrade over the likes of McClung/Burns/etc., I'd rather see the Brewers wait a little longer & go after that "frontline SP" we've heard mentioned.