Sell, sell, sell?

[JohnBriggs12]

Let's face it. Rickie Weeks is done for the year. Manny Parra has pitched himself out of the league at least for now. Bush and Looper are way too hittable. Suppan is Suppan. The next 3 weeks they are facing the top teams in the NL. This looks like a team that will be selling in July, not buying. I'm not trying to be negative but it's looking like a year where aside from some nice individual accomplishments, the last couple months peoples attention will turn to the Packers.

 

Hoffman is the obvious one to dangle but even he's been shaky in the few opportunities he's been needed lately. Cameron should have some value too if he can emerge from his recent slump. Kendall might interest a team in the right situation. Hardy's value has obviously slipped but if the team is out of it isn't it a perfect time to let Escobar get used to major league pitching?

[Brian the Automator]

The division is completely up for grabs this year. Unless they lose 2 out of 3 games on average until the trading deadline, they're going to be adding, not subtracting.

[fondybrewfan]

We are still only 1.5 games out of 1st,

 

The Crew is in a bad stretch right now but we have a ton of home games before the break so I am confident the ship will be righted fairly quickly. OUr entire rotation is in a slump right now, count me in the campt that believes that this can't last forever

 

The Cardinals and Cubs just aren't good enough right now to completely run away with the division. I think the Crew would have to be at least 7 games out at the trading deadline to not at least contemplate a trade to make a run at the division.

[jjfanec]

Has Melvin ever sold during the season? Even when he traded Carlos Lee it was not a real sell. He traded for a new closer and a starting OF'er (although Mench was bad). With this division being very winnable there is no way I see us selling. Cameron and Hoffman are the only players that would make sense if we did decide to sell because I think JJ's value will be higher in the off-season.

[Invader3K]

The division is completely up for grabs this year. Unless they lose 2 out of 3 games on average until the trading deadline, they're going to be adding, not subtracting.

 

I basically agree. While the past week or so has made me a bit pessimistic (mainly due to the pitching situation), we're only one and a half games out of first place right now. To throw in the towel right now would not only be short sighted, it would be a slap in the face of the millions of people who've been supporting this team since last year. The Crew is going through a rough patch right now, but I think they'll start to right the ship soon enough. I just hope that when the time comes for Melvin to make a trade, there is actually someone out there available who will make a meaningful difference for this season.

[brewmann04]

I have to agree with John Briggs I don't believe our Starting Rotation is good enough to carry us into the Postseason and Hopefully

Melvin will not move Prospects to get a Mid Tier starting Pitcher Like Washburn or a Injury Risk Pitchers like Bedard.

The Brewers have too many Holes throughout their Lineup.I do hope they keep Gamel up and Play him at Third for the rest of the season.Maybe the crew will get lucky and some team eill be desperate enough to take Suppan.

[JohnBriggs12]

The division is completely up for grabs this year. Unless they lose 2 out of 3 games on average until the trading deadline, they're going to be adding, not subtracting.

Reality is the Brewers have the worst starting pitching in the division. Reality is the Cubs offense which has underachieved all year is starting to wake up. Reality is the Cardinals are the most balanced team in the division.

 

Either the Cubs or Cards are capable of taking off at any time and burying the Brewers.

 

The division is up for grabs but the Brewers could be out of it in a month unless their pitching turns it around now. So the Brewers are only 1 1/2 games out now? Wasn't the 04 team right there in early July too? The standings mean nothing. It's what kind of team you have to compete the rest of the way. The Brewers starting rotation is in shambles.

[BrewCrewRising]

If we had an Astros level farm system that needed to be re-stocked, I'd think that JohnBrigg's proposal would not be out of the question IF the Brewers were 6 or more games out in the last week of July. But it's not like we're desperate for the mid-level prospects that Hoffman and Cameron might get.

 

Besides, how in demand are Cameron and Hoffman really going to be? I think we'd get far less than would be worth it to jettison components of a competitive, yet flawed, team.

 

If I turn it around and think of who we could get and think, if we already had such prospects that are equal in an exchange for Cam or Hoffman, would I be willing to trade for them for a decent closer and OF to have a shot in the division? Yes I would.

[bamberger]

The Brewers are in the bottom half of the league in both pitching ERA and batting average. The most glaring problem is starting pitching, but their inconsistent offense is right behind but there isn't much to do with it.

They really need a #1 and #3 starting pitcher. Gallardo is really a 1-2 guy. Not likelyto find a #1 and probably can't afford both a # 1 and #3.

I would take a chance on trading Hardy and Hart and patching in Escobar and bring up Katin to platoon with Catalanotto.

Realistically, it's beginning to look like tread water until 2011 or 2012 when a lot of pitching could be ready.

[DatHoser]

What else needs to be considered is the PR hit with the casual fan should a "selling off" occur. All the goodwill built up over years with this type of fan would be wiped out if the sell-off occurred this soon. It would be "the same old Brewers." If we're out of it at the end of July, trades used to bring in talent might be viewed differently, but right now it would be seen as a betrayal by many of the fans.

[PeaveyFury]

Realistically, it's beginning to look like tread water until 2011 or 2012 when a lot of pitching could be ready.

 

But that's not really realistic at all- Hardy and Fielder likely won't be with the team in 2011 or 2012- our window is now, not 2 or 3 years from now.

 

Whenever the Brewers hit a rough patch we have threads like these. If they win 5 or 6 of their next 7 or 8, we'll be talking about being buyers again for sure.

[kramnoj]

JB, if you were really looking at this honestly, you would mention the WC. The East doesn't look like they will be producing one, and who believes the Giants are a better team than the Brewers? The Central will probably produce the WC this year, which means the Brewers would only have to beat one of the Cards and Cubs, not both.

 

If another major injury hits the team, I could maybe see the Brewers doing a sale, but I don't envision one otherwise.

[TheCrew07]

But that's not really realistic at all- Hardy and Fielder likely won't be with the team in 2011 or 2012- our window is now, not 2 or 3 years from now.

No, the Brewer window isn't now, and we don't need Fielder and Hardy to get the playoffs. The system did not produce enough pitching to go with the hitting talent, and it produced to many of the same type of hitters. Many people are chasing something that isn't there in my opinion.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Im just happy I didnt start this thread because i know I have started many like it. I hope Im wrong but this starting pitching really scares me. I didnt think we could win with it before the season started and now with Parra falling apart I really dont see how its nearly good enough to win.

[kramnoj]

I didnt think we could win with it before the season started and now with Parra falling apart I really dont see how its nearly good enough to win.

 

They are winning with his poor performances, and it's unlikely that his replacement will perform worse than he did.

 

Before the season started I thought the Brewers were an 86ish win team, and that if they got lucky they could get a playoff spot because of the misfortunes of their competition. The Crew is on pace for that kind of record, and could get into the playoffs because teams like the Mets and Braves and Cubs are either underperforming or had their own misfortune (or both).

[DougHenrySux]

I know this is a pipe dream of mine, but if the Brewers could trade J.J. Hardy or Corey Hart to the Giants for Madison Bumgarner, I'd do backflips. On the surface it looks like a "give-up" trade and Bumgarner probably wouldn't get more than a cup of coffee this year. I just think Escobar could provide the speed aspect we desperately need at lead-off and will provide good enough defense to get by.

 

As everyone else said, pitching is thin on the AAA/AA level for the Crew and Bumgarner could step in to fill a much needed spot in the rotation as early as this year. Maybe the Giants would trade him since they have Cain/Linceum and Tim Alderson following soon.

 

EDIT: Come to think of it, Baltimore has some good pitching prospects also. Matusz, Tillman, Arrieta, etc.

[CWSOmaha]

The Crew 07 wrote... The system did not produce enough pitching to go with the hitting talent, and it produced to many of the same type of hitters. Many people are chasing something that isn't there in my opinion.

 

But didn't we anoint Jack Z as the greatest talent evaluator of all time??!!(yes I am being sarcastic) Bottom line... Jack Z hit on some great hitters, not many of which can play good defense, and didn't hit on many pitchers during that time. Where has that left our minor league system?

[The Truth]

Unless the wheels completely come off and we go into a Ned Yost era type losing streak, we're buyers at the deadline, not sellers. In part because we can contend for at least the wildcard, and in part because we want to keep our strong fanbase built up. We don't want the dismay that selling off talent will bring to our not completely knowledgable "average new Brewer fan" (and there's 10,000 of those types of fans who regularily attend games at Miller Park)

[And That]

Where has that left our minor league system?

Currently, in the top 10 or so.

[Marc Newfield of Dreams]

To be honest, I'd love to see them sell.

 

They've been getting by on smoke and mirrors this year. I don't think there's a shot in hell they make the playoffs with their pitching and Jeckyll and Hyde offense.

 

If adding is not going to be possible, and let's be honest, there's not a lot out there, why not cut some losses?

[jjfanec]

To be honest, I'd love to see them sell.

 

They've been getting by on smoke and mirrors this year. I don't think there's a shot in hell they make the playoffs with their pitching and Jeckyll and Hyde offense.

 

If adding is not going to be possible, and let's be honest, there's not a lot out there, why not cut some losses?

If we can trade for a guy like Cliff Lee this team is better than last years playoff team. The lineup is essentially the same with Braun and Fielder both hitting better this year. Lee and Gallardo would be better than a CC and a hurt Ben Sheets. And the bullpen is much better this year.

[TheCrew07]

Huh? Bush 2008 > Bush 2009, Parra 2008 > Parra 2009, Looper 2008 > Looper 2009. If Suppan pitching better is our one big upgrade, I don't see how we're better. This team needed Parra to step up and likely 1 more top of the rotation pitcher to be a serious contender. That hasn't happened yet, and we're probably a couple of months away from Parra coming back with some measure of effectiveness.

 

We won't make up for losing Hardy and Fielder in direct moves, player for player, but collectively getting more production out of 3B, C, and 2B we could break even offensively. The farm system is loading with quality pitching from A+ on down, there are better days ahead. I still believe the teams in '11, '12, and '13 will be better than the teams of '07, '08, '09. The pitching could be lights out, the line up has the potential to be more balanced, and the defense as a team should be similar.

 

I wasn't trying to bag on Z, Rogers may make the show yet, little Ben got his shot and couldn't cut it, Eveland has pitched in the majors for 3 different teams now, Jones got hurt, and Sarfate ended being a relief pitcher.

 

I don't think this is a throw away season, but I do stand by my original opinion that the month long hot streak skewed perceptions of this team. This is a wait and see team, not a 1 player away from the World Series type team. At some point the pitchers will start pitching better, it's unlikely they serve up meatballs all season, but even if they do turn it around as a group this team isn't suddenly a playoff team... it's been a weird 2 months that's for sure. If you're Melvin I think you have to sit tight and see how things develop over the next month. I wouldn't mind giving up some midling prospects for Bedard, but I wouldn't give up any of the high ceiling players for him, he's not even a sure bet to stay healthy for the entire season. Nor am I thrilled about the prospect of riding Gallardo hard when his arm is one that should be protected this season given his lack of innings last season.

[BrewCrewRising]

To an extent, I feel like this debate boils down to a philosophical question about which small market model is better: Twins vs. Marlins. If we're the Twins, we hold out hope this year and next and keep ourselves consistently strong, knowing that some years we'll dip, and other years we'll rise a little. If we're the Marlins, we sell and rebuild and hope that the rebuilding is good enough to make a WS.

 

It has worked for the Marlins twice, but isn't working now so much. Mind you, they haven't gone out and hired a few FA's to fill some holes, but I'm guessing it's because they know they're more than a few FA's away.

 

We have glaring holes on this team, and we have a lot of talent. If things go as planned for every team, the Cubs beat us to the title, as well as the Cardinals. But things rarely go as planned, so why not take a chance? Even if the general management decided we were better suited for the Marlins model, I don't know if right now is the time to do it. What 7/31 holds though is anybody's guess.

 

I guess what I would hope for is that Doug Melvin could do something creative that might give us a chance this year, but strengthens us for the future. I'm not saying I'm a proponent of the Bucholz for Hardy idea (and we don't even know if that's possible), but a move like that may give us a boost for this year while investing in the future.

[TooLiveBrew]

Reality is the Brewers have the worst starting pitching in the division. Reality is the Cubs offense which has underachieved all year is starting to wake up. Reality is the Cardinals are the most balanced team in the division

 

Reality is that the Brewers' offense is far more talented at this point than the Cubs or Cards. Reality is that adding one legit arm like Bedard gives the Brewers enough pitching talent to be in the hunt for the division & WC to the end.

 

Not trying to be negative? Huh?

[PeaveyFury]

No, the Brewer window isn't now, and we don't need Fielder and Hardy to get the playoffs. The system did not produce enough pitching to go with the hitting talent, and it produced to many of the same type of hitters. Many people are chasing something that isn't there in my opinion.

 

All the more reason they should be trying to trade some of their farm system hitters to fill the holes in the pitching staff, then. Yes, the Brewer window is now. Otherwise, you're left waiting and hoping that the prospects become as good as what you already have now when they leave? Is Escobar going to be as good as Hardy? Taylor Green or Lawrie better than Weeks? Someone at first better than Fielder? Katin better than Hart? The problem is, there's no sure bet that their 2011 team will be as good as the one they have now. All the more reason to try to fix their holes while they're in it this year rather than to hope and pray for a better opportunity down the line.