1st and 3rd with one out

[rickh150]

...............1st and 3rd with one out............ routine flyball hit to left and caught......... the runner from 3rd tags and scores easily....however, the man on 1st believes the ball will be a base hit and gets easily doubled up trying to get back to first base.........the run scores before the 1st baseman catches the ball at first for the final out of the inning...........Does the run count?

This situation recently happened in an MLB exhibition game this spring. I think I saw it on Baseball Tonight. I remember that the umps initially got the call wrong and then two or three innings later changed it( yes, changed it like 45 minutes later) putting the run up or taking it down from the scoreboard. Sadly, I cannot remember. This situation occured in a recent softball game in the area as well, and the ump did not count the run. Can anyone help me out?

[zzzmanwitz]

Without looking up the actual rules...

 

I would say no run. There is a force out on the runner on first. Any time a force out is recorded, it applies before any runs are scored.

[TSack27]

I'm going with the run scores. It is not technically a force out as the runner already achieved first base, he is out because he left the base early on the caught ball - I believe the term is something like "live ball appeal". If the run scored before the appeal was made, the run counts. I had to make that call in a recent softball tournament... and relied on that exact situation you reference from this year's MLB exhibition game in my explanation. But still sent someone home between games to scour the internet for the rules to back me up, and they found it and brought a copy to the park [i'll start looking again for you].

[tdeggie]

i believe the run does not count ... It is a force out, which does not allow the run to score.

[sauveb]

The run counts. Force outs are only when the runner is advancing, not when he is going back to a base.

[TSack27]

While Wikipedia also explains the run scores, as many consider that skeptical, the "All Expert" site has a more thorough explanation from an ASA Umpire-in-Chief.

[rickh150]

Thank you, Tsack! Great info!!!!

[dlk9s]

This exact situation is actually discussed in the MLB rule book. In Rule 4.09, which lays out how a run is scored, there is a "Comment" with a series of specific situations and how they are ruled. Here is the applicable portion:

APPROVED RULING: One out, Jones on third, Smith on first, and Brown flies out to right field. Two outs. Jones tags up and scores after the catch. Smith attempted to return to first but the right fielder's throw beat him to the base. three outs. But Jones scored before the throw to catch Smith reached first base, hence Jones' run counts. It was not a force play.

[Jimbo]

The run counts.

 

This very thing happened in a Brewers-Yankees game back in the 90's. (The ump counted the run, but only told the managers. The scoreboard, sports broadcasters, et al that night had the wrong final score).

[stoutdude04]

Funny that you mentioned this. This same thing basically happened at our softball tourny in the championship game. I had read the info and told them that the run counts because it wasnt a force. They believed me and we got the run. We ended up winning handly but thats beside the point.