Is it time for Gamel to go to AAA? ... Latest: Gamel to Stay (reply #81)

[JJHardy7]

He would still be a valuable player, and able to get at-bats against LHP, and could do so all over the IF.

 

I guess you have a good point http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif He's obviously paid way too much, but I wouldn't mind seeing him as a super sub.

 

Its not like he's riding the pine like Cattalanato. He's been up for 33 games, and he's had 82 PA. He's started 10 of the last 15 games as well.

 

Gamel > Cat IMO and it's not all that close. Cat was looking a job a month or so ago.

 

The plan was to break him in slowly. His playing time increases each week, and will continue to do so. I couldn't fathom sending him to AAA. Thats basically telling him they don't believe in him. They have a plan, and will stay the course.

 

If that was the 'plan', it sure was a terrible one. I guess I don't see the point in hindering a player's development. You don't get better by not playing. I'm not knocking you X. I just think that's the wrong way to go about things with Gamel. There is a minor league system for a reason.

 

It was no secret Gamel was probably going to be the DH during these interleague games. Gamel knew that when he came up. Besides, how does starting at 3B or DH seriously affect his production in the batter's box? It really shouldn't, unless we want to have a discussion about the mental aspects of being on the field versus sitting on the bench during a half inning. I doubt many want to go there, though.

 

It was not a secret, but why was he called up so early? I personally think calling up a minor league player just to DH is a pretty dumb idea for a team that is competing and trying to keep growing guys via the minor leagues. It has a minimal impact on the actual games and it hinders the player's progress in the field. How does it impact field or playing? I'm not stating he's 'struggled' (which he really hasn't) with the bat because he's a DH. I'm saying because he pretty much knows he's getting sent down unless he performs he's pressing. IIRC there have been players in the past that would much rather field and hit than just DH. Players have said it keeps them from focusing too much on hitting and pressing...now imagine that for a guy that pretty much has no role. There is not a single reason Gamel shouldn't be playing 3B everyday. You either develop the defense or move him to a new position. I've been in the camp for a long time that his defense would be fine. I think some need to take a look back at Gamel's minor league hitting stats. He's a great hitter and IMO out of all the players in Milwaukee right now he'll at worst be the 3rd best overall hitter and may actually be the 3rd best right now. Let him play and we'll see what he can do. Getting 'his feet wet' is a joke. You don't use up service time to bring a guy along slowly. There's rookie league, A, AA, and AAA to do all that.

[Thurston Fluff]

If that was the 'plan', it sure was a terrible one. I guess I don't see the point in hindering a player's development. You don't get better by not playing. I'm not knocking you X. I just think that's the wrong way to go about things with Gamel. There is a minor league system for a reason.

 

It's the same plan they used with Prince. It doesn't seem to have hindered his progress. The idea is to give the player a little taste of the majors. Not just the playing but the travel, media, fans... the entire major league routine. If they do the same as they did with Prince the plan all along was to send him back down and digests it a little bit and when they need him he is one step ahead in knowing what to expect. This isn't new or just a Brewer thing. Plenty of teams like to get their top prospects a taste before they are expected to come in and produce. Given how important hose first few years of major league service are, especially if you are not one of the top payroll teams, I think it makes some amount of sense to acclimate them a little without losing the entire year of service time learning on the job.

[JJHardy7]

It's the same plan they used with Prince. It doesn't seem to have hindered his progress. The idea is to give the player a little taste of the majors. Not just the playing but the travel, media, fans... the entire major league routine. If they do the same as they did with Prince the plan all along was to send him back down and digests it a little bit and when they need him he is one step ahead in knowing what to expect. This isn't new or just a Brewer thing. Plenty of teams like to get their top prospects a taste before they are expected to come in and produce. Given how important hose first few years of major league service are, especially if you are not one of the top payroll teams, I think it makes some amount of sense to acclimate them a little without losing the entire year of service time learning on the job.

 

Prince wasn't expected to stay or play 1B. There's a hole at 3B and our top prospect is a 3B. Prince wasn't going to get significantly better at defense. He was more 'developed' than Gamel was. Gamel needs to play everyday in order to shore up his weakness -- his defense. There's a major difference IMO. Weeks, Braun, and Fielder have all shown at various times major issues on defense...why can't we fix this? You either play Gamel everyday to get better or switch positions. Until this happens, his progress will not be at the point it needs to be.

[Thurston Fluff]

I think it depends on what they are trying to improve on his defense. If it's footwork which is what they seem to be saying he can work on it without playing every day. He comes in daily to work on that now. I also don't think Gamel was expected to stay or play first base. The original plan was to get him some time as DH and maybe a game or two at third when he was originally called up. Then Weeks got hurt and they sort of played it by ear. They do have a viable option at third with McGehehe so it isn't all that far off from the Prince formula.

[JJHardy7]

I think it depends on what they are trying to improve on his defense. If it's footwork which is what they seem to be saying he can work on it without playing every day. He comes in daily to work on that now. I also don't think Gamel was expected to stay or play first base. The original plan was to get him some time as DH and maybe a game or two at third when he was originally called up. Then Weeks got hurt and they sort of played it by ear. They do have a viable option at third with McGehehe so it isn't all that far off from the Prince formula.

 

You make some legit points. I guess seeing the Sounds play I think he'd get more 'attention' with Money. He'd get to practice (probably the same amount as Milwaukee), but then also put it into live games. I don't think taking ground balls in Nashville or Milwaukee really matters. Live games is what matters to me. Again, this is the prospect that the Brewers refused to give up in the CC deal.

[strawbossisevil]

Nice to see him starting at 3b today. Also good to see him score our team´s first run!

[PrinceEatMeat]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/48730032.html

 

Looks like he's here to stay.

[Never Outhustled]

If that was the 'plan', it sure was a terrible one. I guess I don't see the point in hindering a player's development.

I think burrying a young player as he struggles to find his groove in the majors is a good way to hinder a players development. An alternative is to break the player in slowly the 1st few weeks, while gradually increases his player time as he gets more comfortable.

 

I'm happy he's staying here, and think he's an intergral part of the teams playoff push. I'm also happy they didn't risk crushing his confidence by shipping him back to AAA.

[JJHardy7]

I think burrying a young player as he struggles to find his groove in the majors is a good way to hinder a players development. An alternative is to break the player in slowly the 1st few weeks, while gradually increases his player time as he gets more comfortable.

Why call him up then? We still don't know what role Gamel will or won't have going forward. If he's starting at 3B everyday of the week with one off day, that's fine. I have and had no problem with that if that happens. I guess I don't see why that never happened. I still don't buy anything towards the Brewers having a plan with Gamel. It made no sense to call him up when they did and they treated him like that. I also don't think it's anywhere near fair to say he struggled when he's adjusting to being a bench/DH player most of the time he was up here prior to this weekend. Again, I hope the Brewers said 'Mat you're starting at 3B. Stop worrying about it and just play baseball'. Mat no doubt saw what happened to Brad Nelson and Chris Duffy. You perform or you're gone...that shouldn't apply to the best prospect in the organization. Milwaukee isn't and most likely won't be at the point where they can always call up the #1 prospect in the organization and 'get his feet wet'. It's using up service time. The Brewers IMO should have called Gamel up right before the road DH games and told him the plan...or they call him up (when they did) and tell him the plan. This weekend gives me an indication that the Brewers have decided that Gamel will start the majority of the games at 3B. That also tells me the Brewers didn't have a plan...why is he all of a sudden 'the guy' at 3B when a DH spot was there? That contradicts how they've used him in the prior similar situations.

I'm happy he's staying here, and think he's an intergral part of the teams playoff push. I'm also happy they didn't risk crushing his confidence by shipping him back to AAA.

I agree about the playoff push. It's too bad he can't pitch http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif I've stated it before...I think Gamel is the 3rd best hitter on this team or could be by seasons end. I've never questioned the bat. I just thought it was somewhat of a joke for him to average fewer than 3 at-bats a game and play 1/3 of the games at 3B until this weekend. I don't think it would've messed with Mat's confidence. I'm sure he'd rather be in the bigs than AAA...but that also isn't in his best interest if there is no plan for him. I really hope the Brewers have decided to give him the job. JS mentions that he'll be sharing time with Bill Hall...which sucks, but hopefully isn't true.

[BrewCrewForever]

If he is staying he better get a majority of the starts. All starts at RHP and even a some against LHP.

[Invader3K]

I can't imagine they're keeping him around to ride the bench. I think all the Gamel fanatics should be pleased right now. I am as well, as I see no reason why he should go down to AAA after the positive signs he's shown at the plate lately.

[JJHardy7]

I can't imagine they're keeping him around to ride the bench. I think all the Gamel fanatics should be pleased right now. I am as well, as I see no reason why he should go down to AAA after the positive signs he's shown at the plate lately.

 

Well I couldn't imagine they called him up to ride the bench either. We'll see. You use your #1 hitting prospect the way the Brewers have. He should be starting everyday and maybe a day off a week to let Hall play based on his contract. I don't say that to be a jerk against Hall. The problem is Gamel has hit LHP BETTER than RHP in his career. There should not be any type of platoon at 3B. Gamel can flat out hit. I also think many 'Gamel fanatics' if you want to call me one just want to use Mat the best way. It's good to have a plan for your top prospect and not worry about a bad contract you signed another player to.

[Never Outhustled]

...why is he all of a sudden 'the guy' at 3B when a DH spot was there?

You do realize the doctors recommended that Casey MaGehee shouldn't play the field this series because he's battling knee tendinitis. Thats why Gamel was at 3rd instead of DH.

 

JS mentions that he'll be sharing time with Bill Hall...which sucks, but hopefully isn't true.

I don't think they used the best discriptive term in "sharing". Hall will only start against LHP, which will give Gamel 2/3 of the starts at the positions. If Hall doesn't pick up the pace, he'll lose those starts too. Hall isn't getting those starts because of his contract, its because he earned them by being awesome versus LHP even when he was dreadful overall last year.

[JJHardy7]

You do realize the doctors recommended that Casey MaGehee shouldn't play the field this series because he's battling knee tendinitis. Thats why Gamel was at 3rd instead of DH.

 

Well...what happens then if Gamel is on the bench again. Hall plays 3B also and I guess I see it like Hall vs. Gamel. I'm hoping that the Brewers have realized that Gamel > Hall.

 

I don't think they used the best discriptive term in "sharing". Hall will only start against LHP, which will give Gamel 2/3 of the starts at the positions. If Hall doesn't pick up the pace, he'll lose those starts too. Hall isn't getting those starts because of his contract, its because he earned them by being awesome versus LHP even when he was dreadful overall last year.

 

Gamel hits LHP better than RHP. Hall can do one thing above average. I don't see that as a reason to get him in the lineup though. I'd much rather see Hall play 2B, SS, and 3B or even OF and be a super sub.

[The Truth]

I'm glad that Gamel is staying up, I hope he starts a majority of the games at 3B and hits in the #6 slot. I have no problem with Bill Hall starting versus lefties, but I don't think he should be replacing Gamel vs lefties (perhaps occasionally if Gamel needs a day off), but instead Hall should be a "supersub" hitting versus lefties only and playing 2B/SS/OF

[TooLiveBrew]

You do realize the doctors recommended that Casey MaGehee shouldn't play the field this series because he's battling knee tendinitis. Thats why Gamel was at 3rd instead of DH.

 

Interesting. I missed that. I think Gamel has show exceptional range so far at third -- at least as much as Hall possesses. I will happily endure Gamel's growing/throwing pains at 3B, since I think he has a shot (& the tools) to be an elite defender. Honestly, a left side of the infield of Gamel & Escobar would be darn near impossible to sneak a ball past.

[CheezWizHed]

I was encouraged this weekend, not so much by his hitting (where he had a couple nice games), but by his WALKING. Prior to Cleveland, Gamel had not taken one walk since May 29th (39ABs). I think that more than anything shows he was pressing and not being patient as we have come to expect by following him in the minors.

 

Small sample, but a good sign.

[steve267268]

He's a young hitter, he's bound to struggle, especially with the walks. It wasn't even a year ago that this board was freaking out about Brauns walk totals. Braun has obviously improved in that regard and I'm sure Gamel will make the adjustment as well. I'm not saying he is Braun, just using him as an example.

[joepepsi]

I was encouraged this weekend, not so much by his hitting (where he had a couple nice games), but by his WALKING. Prior to Cleveland, Gamel had not taken one walk since May 29th (39ABs). I think that more than anything shows he was pressing and not being patient as we have come to expect by following him in the minors.

 

Small sample, but a good sign.

His obp is 82 points higher than his batting average. If he goes 3 fer 3 with a double in his next 3 at bats, he's hitting .270/.370/435. .805 OPS.

 

Unless he's hitting under .100 or something, it's silly to fret over this when he hasn't even had 100 at bats.

[CheezWizHed]

Gamel had just gone through 2 awful weeks at the plate. 0 BBs with lots of Ks and a low BA. It was very uncharacteristic of the Gamel we knew in the minors.

 

Hits can be fickle (see JJ), but walks take patience and good pitch selection. So when he went from 0 BB in 39ABs to 5 in 23ABs it just a sign that his approach seems to have improved. With these small samples, I'm only looking at a trend, not a long term indicator.

 

BTW, I just wanted to note that the transition I noted above started at the time I started this thread, so your welcome. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[pogokat]

Mat's actually been prone to hot and cold streaks in the minors...he started last year completely on fire and finished the season frozen...the final numbers looked good, but he was very streaky...we'll probably see lots of stretches of the good and bad with mat---but he's held his own..

[CheezWizHed]

Wasn't he injured during the cold streak last year? I seem to remember a bum elbow or something like that.