Is it time for Gamel to go to AAA? ... Latest: Gamel to Stay (reply #81)

[endaround]

He hasn't made huge strides. His UZR/150 is -6.5. The coaches obviously don't trust his glove. If it wasn't Hall replacing him it would be Counsell or McGehee. Should they send him down? Its a toss up but its not like he hasn't been given playing time and protecting him from left handed pitchers isn't evil, its putting him in the best place to succeed.

[kramnoj]

His UZR/150 is -6.5.

 

How significant is UZR over 85 innings? That's not a rhetorical question.

[Paulus88]

I think the Brewers have given him "a shot for even a week" he has an at bat in the last 9 games, he started 6 of those. The three games where he came off the bench were started by lefties. The only playing time he is missing out on is against lefties and in games where his defense presents a risk. In the interests of winning games it seems that the player which can hit lefties (arguably equally) well and fields better should get those at bats.

[CheezWizHed]

Look at his playing time though. It's been so off and on I don't put a lot of weight on his struggles. I posted a month ago I felt the Brewers didn't have a plan for Gamel and I stand by that. It's not like Hall is on fire or anything right now. If Hall didn't have his salary, Gamel would be at 3B everyday where he should be. I'm sure Gamel is pressing and trying too hard. Let's get him more than 3 at-bats a game and see what he can do.

I'm not advocating Hall. I'm just saying that he is an immovable object because of his salary vs. production. He isn't bad enough to DFA outright (defense and BA vs LHP still holding him there). Can't trade him, so he is what he is: Stuck as a starter vs. LHP and defensive replacement. Personally, I'm hoping for 3B to be covered by McGehee/Counsell/Heether for 90% (if Gamel is at AAA).

 

I also don't buy the "role is not clearly defined" arguement. You might not agree with the role he is in, but I'm quite sure its been pretty clearly defined. Macha has used him quite consistantly (DH if we have it, ~60% of all other starts at 3B, PH in almost every game he doesn't start).

 

I agree with you, however, that if he is at the MLB level, he should be starting nearly every game (especially after Weeks was injured).

[JJHardy7]

He hasn't made huge strides.

 

How many games have you seen him play over the past few years?

 

Its a toss up but its not like he hasn't been given playing time and protecting him from left handed pitchers isn't evil, its putting him in the best place to succeed.

 

Not true. He's hit lefties better than righties.

 

I think the Brewers have given him "a shot for even a week" he has an at bat in the last 9 games, he started 6 of those.

 

I want him at 3B for a week. Not given 'token' at-bats that count towards it either. Just tell him it's his job for a week and let's see what happens. Maybe he won't press as much as he is IMO. He can flat out hit. I'm sure in the back of his mind he knows (or reads what some here are posting) that he needs to do X in order to not get sent back to AAA.

[CheezWizHed]

One interesting tidbit that goes with JJ's arguements:

 

		G	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	BB	K	SB	CS	AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS
As 3B		12	39	2	10	2	0	2	8	3	16	0	0	.256	.310	.462	.771
As DH		6	24	2	5	1	0	0	1	2	5	1	0	.208	.296	.250	.546
As PH		11	10	0	1	1	0	0	2	1	5	0	0	.100	.182	.200	.382

He does much better when starting at 3B at least in the small sample....

[Invader3K]

It almost seems like some people here have an overly personal attachment to Gamel, and are looking for any reason to blame the Brewers organization for his potential failure. Most teams don't just throw rookies into full times starting roles. It's not limited to the Brewers, how they're handling a major prospect.

[FVBrewerFan]

Well, I don't look at it as personal. I think having Gamel play 3B every day gives them the best chance to win. Even though he has struggled at the plate, his numbers are better than Hall's. Look, it's very difficult for a young player to PH. Pinch hitting is hard enough for guys who have grown into the role, it's much tougher for a young player who's not used to sitting on the bench all day.

 

No matter whay gamel does in June and July, it won't cost them the season. So put him at 3b every day, and I bet his numbers are close to that .771 in the chart above. If his fielding is that terrible, then I'm all for revisiting that plan.

 

We have no idea if this has been done, but Macha really needs to have a talk with Gamel and let him know there's no pressure on him. The pressure is on guys like Hardy, Hart, Kendall, Parra, Suppan, etc. The fans and media have bigger fish to fry.

[Invader3K]

I do agree that pinch hitting is tough. I mean, the Brewers do have a guy who's historically a great PH in Frank Catalanatto. Not sure why he isn't a higher option off the bench right now.

[kramnoj]

No matter whay gamel does in June and July, it won't cost them the season.

 

This is stated too definitively. The Brewers got into the playoffs by one game last year. The Brewers won't be out of the playoffs in July because of one player, but it could certainly be the reason looking back.

[endaround]

His UZR/150 is -6.5.

 

How significant is UZR over 85 innings? That's not a rhetorical question.

 

Not that significant, more just evidence that Gamel hasn't done much to contradict the scouting reports or the obvious unease the coaching staff has with his defense. And at this point there while Gamel has handled LHP in the minors there is little reason not to assume he carries the typical platoon advantage

[thebruce44]

Send Gamel down and call up Hurricane. McGehee starts full time at 3rd, with Hurricane at 2b and Consell as the supersub (3-4 starts a week to keep him fresh). Tell everyone involved that this is how it will be until the AllStar Break, when you will reevaluate things.

 

This gets the hot bats in the lineup, gives everyone defined roles, lets Gamel get his stroke back in AAA, and removes any chance of Gamel getting super 2 status. Pretty much solves every problem.

[FVBrewerFan]

And what exactly leads us to believe Hurricane can hit ML pitching? It doesn't solve every problem. You're taking away power, and giving more ABs to a guy who is less proven at the ML level than Gamel is. I would start Gamel every day at 3B and McGehee every day at 2B. Counsell is used as a PH and "super-sub" with a couple starts a week at 2b, SS, and 3B. That's what I would do for now. And I would flirt with the idea of hitting Gamel 2nd or 5th for a few games to see what happens.

[TooLiveBrew]

Gamel has to hit well enough to overcome his own glove like Braun did in 07

 

I don't agree. Right now he just has to be able to outproduce Hall, who absolutely kills the value he brings with his glove by being dead weight in the batter's box.

 

Gamel needs to get handed the 3B job fulltime or sent back to AAA to play fulltime. Since I think it would be a colossal waste of time to send him back to Nashville, just give him the dang job, Macha!

[Invader3K]

What's being lost in this is that Gamel is the DH right now (OK, I think most realize that). Most will admit Hall's glove is better and more proven than Gamel's at this point. So, Macha is doing what gives his team the best chance to win...I don't think you can ask much more of any MLB manager. Macha has to do what's best for the whole team, and what gives them the best chance to win, not just what's best for one rookie, no matter how heralded by the fans.

[TooLiveBrew]

I thought it was clear that at least I was referring to the Gamel/Hall situation overall, not just right at the moment. Just wanted to clarify.

[TheCrew07]

A UZR based on 29 games and even less total chances (13) means absolutely nothing, it's not predictive, and in this case not even descriptive.

 

Endaround you know better than that... his sample size doesn't suggest anything except that he has the potential to be a good defensive 3B if given enough time, his range and his arm are fantastic, the way he'll air mail a throw, not so much. The raw tools are pretty obvious to anyone with an open mind who's watched him play in the field. Maybe he never solves the throwing issue and become a 1B or OF, but to say he's made no improvement is disingenious at best when you have no frame of reference.

[JJHardy7]

What's being lost in this is that Gamel is the DH right now (OK, I think most realize that). Most will admit Hall's glove is better and more proven than Gamel's at this point. So, Macha is doing what gives his team the best chance to win...I don't think you can ask much more of any MLB manager. Macha has to do what's best for the whole team, and what gives them the best chance to win, not just what's best for one rookie, no matter how heralded by the fans.

 

First of all...it's not personal. You mention that many rookies are called up and don't start...how many of them are the organizations number 1 prospect? My guess is not many. It's not like Gamel is the #18 prospect in the system. He's #1. You either start him in MLB or AAA. You're wasting service time by having him on the bench. Plain and simple.

 

Macha isn't doing the right thing at all. Giving Gamel less than 3 at-bats a game is a bad idea. Sure he's DHing...but there isn't a DH in the NL. It's not the answer to the long-term issue and that's Gamel. Let's not worry about what's best for 'one rookie'. Let's worry about what's best for this team now and in the future. That means benching Hall and putting some faith in Gamel. If they don't believe he can field, than send him to AAA or trade him. Let's not screw around here. The Brewers have time and again brought up guys with bad defense. Gamel has busted his tail and IMO can handle 3B in MLB...I just don't think having him DH or riding the pine helps that. I mean seriously...'starting' Gamel in road AL games? That's good enough? Is that what they did with Braun? Macha has to bench Hall. Hall has no business starting at 3B until Gamel shows he can't handle that. I hate to say this, but if we go back one year and the same decisions were made Yost would have pages filled with out lame he is. Macha should have the same. You don't call up the best prospect in the organization and use him the way the team is. There's been no plan with Gamel. He was called up WAY too early in terms of his actual playing time. The only thing Mat could've done was hit .300 or so and maybe he'd start. If this team is going live through Hardy, Hart, and Cameron's streaks and Hall's lack of hitting now for a few years they can have Gamel start at 3B. The handling of Gamel is a joke. There clearly was no plan with him and I've stated that for over a month now and still stand by that. If the glove isn't ready, send him to Nashville so he can actually improve instead of sitting on the bench/DHing. Giving a guy 1/3 of the starts at 3B is not a way you continue to develop a guy.

[TheCrew07]

Hmm, maybe there is something to the DH vs playing in the field theory, I'm interested to see how this shakes out. I dismissed it initially, but there might be something to it.

[TooLiveBrew]

.256/.310/.462/.771

 

Even though the weird splits are more likely due to the fact that one or two hits either way could change things a lot, this line is roughly what might be expected for a talented young player adjusting to MLB pitching. Still showing the power, but not able to consistently square up pitches. I would expect Gamel's production to improve from that, rather than regress from it, and that's basically why I think he should be starting except for when he needs rest.

 

Bill Hall makes a lot of money, and I don't think it's unfair for the Brewers to utilize him in the role that best helps this team. He would still be a valuable player, and able to get at-bats against LHP, and could do so all over the IF. I just don't think Hall's defense will bring him even with Gamel (in terms of overall value) by season's end. That's partly because I think Gamel has a lot of potential on defense as well.

[Baldkin]

Its not like he's riding the pine like Cattalanato. He's been up for 33 games, and he's had 82 PA. He's started 10 of the last 15 games as well.

[logan82]

Like others have pointed out though, most of those starts are at DH, not in the field. He only has 12 games started and 85 innings in the field at 3B over those 33 games. That isn't very much.

[Never Outhustled]

The plan was to break him in slowly. His playing time increases each week, and will continue to do so. I couldn't fathom sending him to AAA. Thats basically telling him they don't believe in him. They have a plan, and will stay the course.

[UeckerAddict]

I want him to stay. Why? Because I think he can help. The Hurricane looked horrible to me when he was up (I know. The "eye test" means jack to everyone here, but it' my post and, therefore, my opinion), but Gamel doesn't look bad to me. He just needs to settle in. The plane is always bumpy on takeoff, but it settles down once it gets in the air. He may be the future , but I think the future is now and I feel more confident with his bat in the lineup.

[Invader3K]

Like others have pointed out though, most of those starts are at DH, not in the field. He only has 12 games started and 85 innings in the field at 3B over those 33 games. That isn't very much.

 

It was no secret Gamel was probably going to be the DH during these interleague games. Gamel knew that when he came up. Besides, how does starting at 3B or DH seriously affect his production in the batter's box? It really shouldn't, unless we want to have a discussion about the mental aspects of being on the field versus sitting on the bench during a half inning. I doubt many want to go there, though.