Implications / Rules of Foreign Born Players in the MLB

[lcbj68c]

Maybe this belongs in the minors forum, so move if neccessary.

Could somebody please explain to me the process for which foreign born players, presumably foreign living players are acquired by MLB teams. It has come to my attention lately that they are not in the June draft as most of the other 2000+ players that are selected and then enter their respective farm systems. It would seem that they are simply signed to the highest dollar by the highest bidder without any arbitrary process other than one of deep pockets?

It appears studs such as Carlos Zambrano (1997), Ichiro Suzuki (2000), and others have been acquired via this "amatuer free agent" route.
However, why are Canadian players seemingly exempt from this process? Justin Morneau (1999) & Brett Lawrie (2008).

Why is it that foreign born/residing players are not subjected to the draft and therefore in fairness to all teams involved? Seemingly a collective bargaining agreement would address this issue? No?

It would seem unfair to small and mid markets such as the Milwaukee Brewers. It does appear however that Dave Nilsson (1987) was acquired this way? Once an All-Star, but hardly a franchise player or star prospect though.

The reason I bring this up is because of the latest Dominician prospect Miguel Angel Sano. Supposedly the Yankees, Orioles, Pirates, and Twins are interested in Sano. But honestly, it would seem just the Yankees and Orioles are the best suitors given the payroll. Not that Brewers have shown interest, but had we, would we be likely to nab a top international prospect given the payroll? I never recall the Brewers making a huge splash in the international market, atleast not any big names. Is it strictly a money issue as it seems or am I missing something else? Is our international scouting not up to par that we aren't finding these prospects? Is dabbling in the international market fair for all teams in the league without subjecting these players to a fair draft. It would seem that it isnt to me, but I welcome any dialouge on the subject as I welcome any knowledge I can get on the minors systems and processes.

[Paulus88]

From what I understand your impressions of the "free market" aspect of the international free agents is accurate. I imagine Canadians are not included among internationaional free agents because of the Blue Jays.

 

As far as the Brewers are concerned there have been international signings, most notably Escobar. The Brewers have been historically judicious but much more active lately.

[nate82]

This is going to be addressed in the next collective bargaining agreement or whatever it is along with the draft and the type A and B free agents. You might see the type A and B free agents gone after this next CBA. That would mean players in the draft would get a slot amount where they are drafted and there will be no more compensation for lost free agents. Also international players would have to go through the draft in order to play in MLB. I believe that is what is being discussed by the owners and players union of happening.

 

I doubt all of these changes will happen but you could see international players in next years draft but the slotting prices for draftees not be there. So the same problem will still be there from the past with the draftees asking for a lot of money and the teams signing those same players drafting those players because of money issues.

[lcbj68c]

That makes sense as to Candian players due to the Toronot franchise. Is Puerto Rico the same as well because it is a U.S. Territory then, or no? I was largely unaware that Escobar was acquired in this manner, but that it is good to hear that we are being a bit more active with foreign born players. That said, is it fair to allow deep pockets to control the acquisition of international players? Why doesn't the collective bargaining agreement control this? I can't imagine US prospects or USA born veterans are happy about the money tossed at some international players that don't have to be subject to a drafting process?

[RyDogg66]

How would it be handled by players in Japanese leagues that are under contract there and then "posted" by their Japanese Teams?

[DuWayne Steurer]

How would it be handled by players in Japanese leagues that are under contract there and then "posted" by their Japanese Teams?

 

I think the answer here is simple. Those guys aren't amateur players. The draft is titled the amateur draft. I think that should apply, regardless of what country the player comes from.

 

I have no problem with Japanese League guys being free agents rather than requiring them to be drafted.

[jwaltz]

Is Puerto Rico the same as well because it is a U.S. Territory then, or no?

 

Puerto Rico is considered part of the US as far as the MLB draft is concerned. All Puerto Rican players go through the draft.

[RightFieldCoder]

IIRC, DM shut down the entire Asian scouting department of the Brewers because he knew he would never have the money to land a FA from there anyway. He believed the money would be better spent scouting and developing Latin American players that the Brewers had a shot of signing.

 

If a high school player spends one year in the IL, is he a free agent? He would no longer be an amateur player.

 

Maybe signing a player from another league should cost a draft pick. If NY or Bos want the next Asian star, they can sign them but then lose a first round pick the next draft. Nobody gets the pick, there's just one less pick that year.

[lcbj68c]

If a high school player spends one year in the IL, is he a free agent? He would no longer be an amateur player.

I guess that is what I am not understanding in the interest of fairness. Why have a draft if it is first come first serve for international players. If I was a 16yo and lived in Wisconsin (could happen anywhere) and was a baseball phenom. Say, I wanted to play for my hometown team and my hometown team wanted me in their system. What procludes the Brewers from making side agreements, my Dad taking me out of school and sending me the Dominican Republic for one year and then I just opt to be a "Free Agent" from the Dominican Republic and sign with the Brewers for the said side agreement we had already planned out a year prior, therefore skipping the draft and 29 other teams from having a chance to draft me? Seems like a hinky and unfair system.

[Brewtacular]

I know there was a big to do earlier this year in Japan when a high school kid, maybe college, chose to forgo the Japanese draft and come to the US. They old boys club that runs baseball was very concerned on what that could do to NPB and was trying to ban him from ever playing in Japan. I am not sure how that all worked out but I believe he did come here.

 

edit

The player is Junichi Tazawa. It looks like he signed with Red Sox despite better offers. He is in AA.

Here is the article on NPB's considered reaction

[BrewCrewRising]

This is going to be addressed in the next collective bargaining agreement or whatever it is along with the draft and the type A and B free agents. You might see the type A and B free agents gone after this next CBA. That would mean players in the draft would get a slot amount where they are drafted and there will be no more compensation for lost free agents. Also international players would have to go through the draft in order to play in MLB. I believe that is what is being discussed by the owners and players union of happening.

 

I doubt all of these changes will happen but you could see international players in next years draft but the slotting prices for draftees not be there. So the same problem will still be there from the past with the draftees asking for a lot of money and the teams signing those same players drafting those players because of money issues.

Why does it follow that if players drafted get a slot amount, that they'd have to get rid of types A and B free agents? What am I missing here?

[nate82]

Why does it follow that if players drafted get a slot amount, that they'd have to get rid of types A and B free agents? What am I missing here?

If I remember correctly it was said that the players union has a stake in the MLB draft and wouldn't allow a slotting system as long as their are type A and B free agents and teams get compensation for losing those free agents.

[JJHardy7]

I wish that teams that signed professional guys from Japan would have to give up a high draft pick. I know it's not likely, but it would help a bit IMO.

[Invader3K]

Yeah, if you post a $50 million fee for one Japanese player (like in the case of Daisuke Matsuzaka), I don't think anyone would fee too sorry for that team losing a draft pick.

 

I just don't get it. Clearly Selig knows the system is broken, and I realize his powers are probably somewhat limited as far as making changes...but everyone knows it's broken, so fix the system already so it's not so skewed to favor big market teams.

[Brewtacular]

Yeah, if you post a $50 million fee for one Japanese player (like in the case of Daisuke Matsuzaka), I don't think anyone would fee too sorry for that team losing a draft pick.

Exactly. The system, in the case of Japan, is so disproportionately in favor of the big markets that it is laughable. I mean, if Daisuke got 50million I can only wonder what Yu Darvish will go for. 70,80,100 million?

[Invader3K]

If that's the case, I expect an intense bidding war between the Marlins and Pirates for his services.

[PlayerHader]

Darvish may be lucky to match Dice-K with the world and baseball economy as they are.

[mothershipconnection]

Maybe signing a player from another league should cost a draft pick. If NY or Bos want the next Asian star, they can sign them but then lose a first round pick the next draft. Nobody gets the pick, there's just one less pick that year.

 

This has always been my favored solution. For all international FA's, you lose a draft pick based on how much you paid. Most latin American kids shouldn't cost a pick because they don't get paid much, but deals that go above $1MM should cost you, beginning with a 3rd rounder. So the Yankees can go ahead and sign Darvish, but the deal costs them their 1st rounder. It's like FA compensation, but this "compensation" goes to every team without a huge wallet in the form of a 1-slot advancement after what'd be your pick in the draft

[colbyjack]

The reason I bring this up is because of the latest Dominician prospect Miguel Angel Sano. Supposedly the Yankees, Orioles, Pirates, and Twins are interested in Sano. But honestly, it would seem just the Yankees and Orioles are the best suitors given the payroll.

 

There is some speculation that the Pirates went the cheap and easy route with the #4 overall pick so they could save some cash to make a serious run at Sano. However, that point probably supports the problem with the draft and the international free agent market than detracts from it.

 

The worldwide draft is a nice idea, but I don't think people can even fathom how complicated it would be. I agree with others that I don't really understand why teams would have to lose draft picks for signing international free agents. I understand the comparison to Type A and B free agents, but that is done more to help the teams losing the picks than to hurt the teams signing them. The thing that makes it most complicated is the contract situation of players from Japan. You could probably have a worldwide draft, minus Japan, a lot easier than a true worldwide draft.

 

And Cuba still wouldn't/couldn't be involved.

 

IIRC, DM shut down the entire Asian scouting department of the Brewers because he knew he would never have the money to land a FA from there anyway. He believed the money would be better spent scouting and developing Latin American players that the Brewers had a shot of signing.

 

The Brewers had an Asian scouting department http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif? The Brewers have tried to be creative a few different ways, spending a few years in South Africa, and even dabbling in Australia, landing a gem in Dave Nilsson (who was considered a top prospect FWIW, way back when) and increasing their efforts in Canada the past few years (players also subject to the draft). Puerto Rico IIRC used to be a free agent market, as I don't think either Pudge Rodrguez, Ruben Sierra or Juan Gonzalez were drafted by the Rangers -- they were free agents. I don't remember what happened to change that, but as noted, Puerto Rican players are now subject to the draft.

 

I'm sure agents play a big part in this, since all of them would love to see all players be able to sign as free agents as opposed to be subject to the draft. Scott Boras has a few players from Latin America (I think Adrian Beltre was his first notable player), and as we all know the agents play a much bigger part of the game of baseball than any of us would like to see.