Should Miller Park add curtains? Latest: Braun With Strong Words (Post # 60)

[AJAY]

You know, I just realized that this means the whole premise of this discussion is, I think, flawed...the sun coming through the windows is not even the cause of any problems for the batters...so curtains or tinting the windows would not help at all. Sun coming through the windows really only affects the left fielder.

 

That's completely incorrect. The sun and shadows disturb both the hitters and the leftfielder. It's been more than well-documented that so many outfielders and hitters have complained over the years. It's easy to say that players should get over it. It's easy to say that other parks also have their unique features and quirks. But I would rather just solve the problem.

 

I would think the players would prefer to deal with the shadows at MP over dealing with the weather...such as the Brewers had to do in Pittsburg and St. Louis.

 

You may be correct, but it doesn't mean we can't fix flaws with our ballpark. Regardless of what is going on in other stadiums, good organizations listen to complaints and address them. When the roof was leaking, we fixed it. When the players complained about the grass, the team changed the type of grass they were using. When the park first opened, players said the lighting was poor. So the Brewers replaced the lights during the offseason.

 

We still have a sun and shadow problem and I would like to see the Brewers look into possible solutions. Let's make Miller Park as great as possible regardless of what happens in other ballparks.

[hawing]

I did remember to look for the response I received from the Brewers regarding roof decisions. This is from 2004 (though, ironically, it deals with cool temperatures in June), so the organization's stance may have changed in the last five years:

 

Our guide for temperature is 60 degrees. The temps on June 12 stayed in the mid to upper 60's. Once the gme starts, the umpires control the game

and their permission is required when you change the game conditions, i.e. Moving the outfield walls or roof. They understand that rain is

unpredictable but they would prefer the judgement on temperature is made before the game, though the umps are typically very cooperative. The

cost of moving the roof is negligable and has never been a consideration for roof moves.

 

My personal philosophy is that the roof serves as a shelter for precipitation and warmth in the very cold days of April and early May

but Miller Park is an outdoor Park as ageneral rule an baseball is an outdoor sport. It is my experience that our fans prefer the roof open as

often as possible.

The sender in 2004 was Steve Ethier, then the vice president for Miller Park operations.

 

AJAY, I don't mean to restart a tangent; I was just aiming to tie up a loose end.

[twobrewers]

I would pay $5 more per ticket if I could be guaranteed that no clowns would be moving in and out of the seating area while there is action on the field.

Take a look around at the various seats in Miller Park. It isn't too hard to find seating where it is impossible for someone to talk in front of you. I specifically chose my season tickets so as to never have a fan walk in front of me.

 

How about closing it when it rains and leaving it open otherwise? Just another reason Miller Park is no County Stadium.

Thank God! I would never own season tickets at County Stadium. I LOVE knowing that every game will be played and that I will be comfortable watching from the stands. Without that promise, I would just stay home and watch on my HD television. I believe Miller Park's roof has significantly added to the Brewer's revenue stream - and the fan's enjoyment.

 

I always think the Brewers should error on the side of a closed roof. The roof should have been closed on Trevor Hoffman bobblehead day. While I admit I didn't dress the warmest - it was around 65 degrees outside - the wind whippping around the upper deck was horrible. I sat through 6 1/2 innings with my arms inside of my shirt before giving up and heading home. That wind made it feel closer to 50 degrees.

 

The roof was closed Thursday because it was raining in Chicago.

 

Lastly, I think curtains are pretty tacky. I understand AJAY's point - and I could get behind "tinting" the windows. But of the 81 home games, only a 25ish are played during the day? Of those 25, the roof is probably open for at least 15. And it could very well be cloudy on a few other days limiting the need for a curtain to 10 games or fewer.

 

Seems like a pretty minor problem - and a bad investment.

[1992casey]

I'd hate to see tinted windows because 90% of the time they're used these days, I think they're just plain ugly. I'd have to be convinced that they'd offer a huge benefit before I'd advocate detracting from the look of the park by adding them. My gut says to agree with AJAY when he says, "the glare and shadows would still be there." I think the difference would be that the glare and shadows would simply change color.

 

As far as opening and closing the roof, I've been to two games this year where the temperature has dropped to the low 50s and there's been a pretty good wind. Last night was one of those games.

 

jeffyscott posted the "official" rules and observed that they "make it sould like during a game it is easier to open it than it is to close it." I spoke to an usher last night, and she indicated that policy has changed this year. She explained that the roof isn't likely to close during the game unless it starts to rain.

 

If this explanation is correct, the Brewers should have announced it. I can't imagine that they would have made an announcement without it being posted in a Brewerfan thread that would have generated a ton of replies.

 

I think we're all capable of dressing for the weather, but we need to know what weather to dress for. Clothing doesn't need to be all that warm to walk to and from the car when it's in the low 50s with a breeze. However, to sit in a seat under those conditions, an extra layer or a warmer coat is in order.

[Invader3K]

I bet even tinting all those windows (if such a thing is possible) would be quite expensive.

[jeffy]

The sun and shadows disturb both the hitters and the leftfielder. It's been more than well-documented that so many outfielders and hitters have complained over the years. It's easy to say that players should get over it. It's easy to say that other parks also have their unique features and quirks. But I would rather just solve the problem.

 

We still have a sun and shadow problem and I would like to see the Brewers look into possible solutions. Let's make Miller Park as great as possible regardless of what happens in other ballparks.

Please explain specifically how the light coming through the windows has any significant impact on the hitter, prior to that sunny area reaching home plate? For example on Thursday with the roof closed, the sunlight coming through the windows did not get to home until about 4:30, so what impact was there on a batter at 3:30, 2:30, 1:30?

 

If you want no shadows and no glare, the only "solution" would be to get rid of all the windows and play all games with the roof closed...no thanks!

[jeffy]

I always think the Brewers should error on the side of a closed roof. The roof should have been closed on Trevor Hoffman bobblehead day. While I admit I didn't dress the warmest - it was around 65 degrees outside - the wind whippping around the upper deck was horrible.

 

Sorry but the error was on your part, not the Brewers. If it was 65 degrees, even if windy, it really does not seem to me this would warrant closing the roof. I don't know why someone would head to the ballpark on a day like that wearing, say, shorts and a t-shirt and not at least bringing something warmer along. If it is to be over 60 and definitely at 65 degrees, fans should assume the roof may be open.

 

Thursday it was 58-62 during the game at the park, I'm not so sure it was closed just because of possible rain.

[whizkid]

There's two effects of the 1B side windows. One is the bright sunlight/shade contrast on the field which moves in an arc bent toward the field from the RF corner to home plate. The other is the windows being a bright background for the LFer on fly balls, the ball getting lost in that background just like it can get lost in the lights. Today's game will be perfect for watching the 1st progress. The two sunlight areas when the roof is open, one from the roof and one from the windows, is what's not normal versus other parks. I was at Thursday's game in section 222 and from around 4pm on it became very difficult to see balls off the bat hit to center or left. I never saw Ryan's HR in flight. The outfielders running to the wall and cheers from other areas of the park are the only reason I knew it was gone. Didn't pick it up to see it land either. I'd like to see the windows tinted like car windows to reduce the contrast on the field. Don't know how difficult/expensive that would be.

 

perhaps this is why the did start at 12:05 in April and May???

 

Pretty sure they do that to get school groups out of the park at a reasonable time.

[jeffy]

from around 4pm on it became very difficult to see balls off the bat hit to center or left.

 

Of course, most day games are over by about that time.

 

I sat in the low LF seats in the metrodome for the brewers 6 pm saturday game there, I could not follow a single fly ball the entire game. As soon as the white roof became the background, I lost it and looked for the fielder to see where it was going. Two reasons for mentioning this: 1. Obviously the fielders were not losing the ball as readily as I was and 2. The Metrodome never did anything about their far more significant roof problem, so I think it is pretty certain MP will not either.

[dadofandrew]

To be blunt, it's not a "problem" at all, and never has been...MP is in its 9th season.

 

It creates a bit of a sun field in LF, and shadows progress in the batting area as the game goes on. The Metrodome used to have a fly ball lost every night until they adjusted the lights, and now, it's still a once every couple weeks thing. Minute Maid has a hill and a flagpole in the field of play. Wrigley Field loses a ball in the weeds on the fence darn near daily. Needless to say, nothing is going to be done about reflections of the sun.

[thablingster]

I thought this might belong here, but I was listening to the post-game audio from today's game and Ryan Braun had some extremely strong comments regarding playing day games at Miller Park. Braun mentioned players hate playing day games at Miller Park and mentioned how the panels aren't tinted. Maybe he or someone else on the team has been snooping in this thread, lol.

[AJAY]

Definitely some very strong words from Braun. I have been hearing similar comments like that from so many other players over the years too. It amazes me that there are still people who don't think there is a problem.

 

Anyway, I rest my case.

 

 

EDIT: Besides mentioning tinted windows, it's interesting that Ryan Braun also mentioned the concept of curtains during that interview. That's kind of cool http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[owbc]

I'm guessing Ryan Braun got that idea from you, Ajay. Great work!

[AJAY]

Just for fun, I am going to throw another idea out there. Instead of curtains, maybe there could be a sun shield that is outside the stadium. It could rest at the base of the panels. It could be something that either rolls, folds, or slides upward. It would only be used as needed.

 

Here is a conceptual drawing . . . .

 

 

 

 

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b273/AJAY_02/MPSunShieldConcept.jpg

[Teatoe993]

Curtains could be made using Remetee T-Shirt material.

[jeffy]

Yesterday was unusal, due to the late start. The normal situation for open roof day games, is the shadow situation shown below. How would even blacking out the windows help with this? As I said, the only "solution" would be to close the roof for every game. I'm sorry, but even if Ryan Braun wants that, I do not.

 

http://www.onmilwaukee.com/images/articles/mi/millerparkchillysunday/millerparkchillysunday_story1.jpg

 

The light from the windows reached home after 4:30 yesterday...so I am still curious as to how a batter is affected by that earlier, during the more typical times when the game is being played., say 1-4 pm?

 

[BadgerFan]

Not "tinting" the windows was a horrible oversight when building Miller Park. I'm sorry, but it looks awful on TV and from the stands. I've thought that since the day the park opened - I can't understand why this is just becoming an issue now. Thankfully with Braun's comments maybe something will change.

 

I wonder if there have been/will be any free agents that don't want to sign with the Brewers because of the crazy shading situation.

[mtrebs]

I wonder if during day games if they have the lights on that normally cover the shaded in areas of the field. I don't even know if that would work or not, but you'd think that if they can brighten that area when it is pitch black outside that it should be possible to brighten that area when there are shadows.

[Schlitz001]

Curtains could be made using Remetee T-Shirt material.

I finally know what it's like to do a spit take while reading a message board.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

I'm trying to picture what that big screen that AJAY put up would look like with those wolves barking at the moon on it. You guys are killing me.

[thebruce44]

http://www.techimo.com/forum/attachments/debateimo-politics-religion-controversy/21926d1237215958-about-global-warming-why-not-just-throw-up-shade-simpsons-20sun-jj-001.jpg

 

We need one of these.

[AJAY]

Jeffreyscott, I agree with your comments. In that photo you showed, a sun shield would not be helpful in eliminating the sun and shadow problem completely. However, there are other situations where a sun shield could still improve things a lot. Sometimes the lighting looks different depending on the time of day. I think a sun shield could still improve things in situations such as those shown below.

 

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b273/AJAY_02/ShadowsCoverInfield.jpg

 

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b273/AJAY_02/ShadowsCoverInfield3.jpg

[DuWayne Steurer]

In both of those photos, both the batter and pitcher are in the sun. Most of the trouble for the hitter comes when the mound is in full sun and the plate is in the shade.

[Diskono]

Shouldn't this be considered a home-field advantage? If the Brewers' hitters don't like it, I'd bet the away hitters like it even less.

[JoeHova]

I like it how it is. Weird sun effects are going to happen when you build a stadium that basically has a sun roof rather than a fully retractable roof. The whole point of having the retractable roof rather than just a dome is to let natural light in. Covering the windows means they should have just built an old-school dome. I don't understand why people feel the need to complain about every little thing. Now shadows are apparently too big of an obstacle for professional athletes to deal with. "For he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good." In other words, it effects both teams, so what's the big deal?