Should Miller Park add curtains? Latest: Braun With Strong Words (Post # 60)

[jeffy]

Roof rules: http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/umpires/ground_rules.jsp#ROOF

 

If the game begins with the roof open:

It shall be closed only in the event of impending rain or other adverse weather conditions.

If the game begins with the roof closed:

(Arizona, Houston, Milwaukee, Seattle): It may be opened when, in the opinion of the home club, the climatic environment has reached a level where fan comfort and enjoyment will be best served by opening the roof to the natural atmospheric conditions.

Those two rules make it sould like during a game it is easier to open it, than it is to close it. If it is open, it does not sound like they can close it just for fan comfort.

[hawing]

I'd vote to have it open anytime one can be comfortable sitting still in the shade for 3 hours by wearing a light jacket or sweatshirt. I'd put that temperature at about 65 degrees.

65 degrees seems like a reasonable cutoff, though wind conditions should be factored in as well. On both May 25 and May 31 it looked as though the "sun" seats were toasty warm, while the "shade" seats were quite chilly, and the wind played a big part of that both days. (Another factor, as noted elsewhere in this thread, is the number of people who wear tank tops/shorts/sandals to games when the weather is just not warm enough to support a summer outfit.)

 

After a history of learning experiences in County Stadium, we now take the approach of dressing for at least 15 degrees cooler than it is in Madison at the time we leave. We check the NWS conditions in Milwaukee (temperature, wind direction and wind speed). So we are often overdressed for the car ride over, but once we're in the park we're fine. Just as with County, even the parking lot conditions are often different than those inside the park.

 

I wrote to the Brewers once, in the early years of MP, about how they make the roof decisions. I have the reply at home and will try to remember to post it once I am there. I think they put the cutoff at 60 degrees then, and my question was asked in the context of night games.

 

And to keep this sort-of on the topic of the lead post...I think I'd rather not see curtains. This is easier for me to say since we rarely have third-base-side seats.

[jeffy]

I watch a lot of games via the road teams that are playing in Milwaukee and I wouldn't call it complaining, but to me the general thought is that it's one of the worst day game places to play according to these broadcasts.

I hope there are not comments with regard to this from the Minnesota announcers, because the ridiculous white roof there has to be a much bigger problem than sun at MP.

 

I think the sun issue is noted more because there is shadow/sun/shadow/sun, due to the roof, rather than the typical shadow/sun that occurs in open air ballparks. If there were no roof, the sun would still shine where the glass is now, that area would be open, there just would not be glass and there would not be a roof shadow. Is the sun situation here really significantly different from places like Wrigley field?

 

I don't think I would see a problem with some light tinting, though.

 

The team could also choose to play fewer day games, not all teams do the midweek day game thing that they do on "getaway day" here. For instance, yesterday they could have played a night game, rather than the 1pm start that was designed to make travel more convenient for the Rockies.

[JJHardy7]

Is the sun situation here really significantly different from places like Wrigley field?

 

I'm not an expert of other fields, but from the games I watch I'd have to put Miller Park as a top 5 worst place to play a day game. Shadows happen during day games...I just don't like the fact it's moving from home plate to the pitching mound. I just don't see it 'fair' that based on where the shadow is it's going to be easier or more difficult for a team during certain parts of the game. I have to assume this was a mistake.

 

The team could also choose to play fewer day games, not all teams do the midweek day game thing that they do on "getaway day" here. For instance, yesterday they could have played a night game, rather than the 1pm start that is designed to make travel more convenient for the Rockies.

 

I would rather see the problem fixed or at least look into how/if it can be fixed.

[joepepsi]

A few years back I was at a sold out game against the Twins. Outside temperature at 6 PM was in the low 90's and and very humid. I must have sweated out 15 pounds the first two innings. Sometime in the middle innings they closed the roof and the place instantly got more comfortable. I figured it was due to air conditioning! We were on the field level up from the 3rd base dugout.

You were not in the sun, before they closed it were you? Otherwise, it could be that they closed the roof due to an approaching storm and the outisde temp dropped when the storm got there.

 

I do know what you mean about the lack of airflow, even with the roof open. I think they should have made some of the windows on the 1st and 3rd base sides openable, like the outfield panels. On warm days the park is too enclosed, even when it is open.

It was really humid that evening so it's possible a front was moving and that's why they closed the roof.

 

I was a game against Baltimore last year when they opened the roof during the game. The day was overcast but the skies cleared by late afternoon.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I'd say no to "curtains"

 

The place might start looking like this guy decorated it.......

 

http://www.circusmusic.com/ics/svelte/chris.jpg

........and then people will be calling Miller Park "Fabulous!"

 

If they could tint them (as someone else suggested) that would probably be acceptable.

 

[RU Rah Rah]

I guess I'm surprised at the idea that people in Wisconsin might not be able to tolerate sitting outside in 60 degree weather.

[jeffy]

Shadows happen during day games...I just don't like the fact it's moving from home plate to the pitching mound. I just don't see it 'fair' that based on where the shadow is it's going to be easier or more difficult for a team during certain parts of the game. I have to assume this was a mistake.

The shadows typically move from the RF line toward the mound and home plate. This is normal and the same thing happens at Wrigley. MP has the normal orientation of a baseball park with 1b to the south..hence the term "southpaw".

[JJHardy7]

The shadows typically move from the RF line toward the mound and home plate. This is normal and the same thing happens at Wrigley. MP has the normal orientation of a baseball park with 1b to the south..hence the term "southpaw".

 

I know how it works. I just think it is (or at least appears) to be more drastic than other parks. I have no clue if there's any stats on this type of thing, but just from the 'eye' test that shadow has slowed down some offenses in its day.

[hawing]

I guess I'm surprised at the idea that people in Wisconsin might not be able to tolerate sitting outside in 60 degree weather.

It's harder if you dress in a tank, shorts and flip flops. I don't know if people expect the roof to be closed, or just expect the air to be warmer because it's spring, but I've been surprised at how often I've seen fans dressed for hot weather at MP, when it's just not hot.

[BrewCityUnit]

I know for a fact that Ned wanted the roof closed as much as possible, thinking the conditions favored his team more often than not. I think Macha feels the same way. I think it has a lot more to do with that then the actual weather on the days where the decision is not an obvious one based on the weather.

[Legacy25GT]

Shadows happen during day games...I just don't like the fact it's moving from home plate to the pitching mound. I just don't see it 'fair' that based on where the shadow is it's going to be easier or more difficult for a team during certain parts of the game. I have to assume this was a mistake.

The shadows typically move from the RF line toward the mound and home plate. This is normal and the same thing happens at Wrigley. MP has the normal orientation of a baseball park with 1b to the south..hence the term "southpaw".

 

Wow... never knew there was a standard baseball field orientation... do you know the reason? just out of curiousity.

 

Also regarding the A/C or lack thereof, this is one of the perks in sitting in section 217, where I have my 10-pack. One is that its right in front of the press box, so you hear the pressbox announcements. Two, its the family section, so its easier to get tickets in the section, and no drunk people around (I never drink at games anyway). Three, you have a good viewing angle of the plate, so you can see balls and strikes. Four, alot of foul balls are hit back there, so you always have the possibility of snagging one. And five... the section is air-conditioned.... or at least the press box is, and the cool air pours out the windows (which can't close) and rolls right over the section... especially if you're in the back half of the section.

 

As far as adding curtains goes... I think its a bad idea.... one of the best architectural features of the staidium are those huge windows under the sides of the roof. One thing I've noticed though, is that the shadows always look worse on TV than they really are. I thinks its just that human eyes adjust for the contrast better than a TV camera does. And most stadiums have to deal with shadows in some respect, so this is nothing that players aren't used to.

[JJHardy7]

The shadows typically move from the RF line toward the mound and home plate. This is normal and the same thing happens at Wrigley. MP has the normal orientation of a baseball park with 1b to the south..hence the term "southpaw".

 

Also, I'm not debating the placement of the field. It's more of a structure issue. Shadows are forming from obstructions. I don't know if there's anything they can do though to stop that...it might have been too late.

[whizkid]

Wow... never knew there was a standard baseball field orientation... do you know the reason? just out of curiousity.

 

There's variation but the batter is never looking into the sun. Wouldn't be a good thing with a 90 mph ball coming at you. Better the outfielders have to deal with it.

[TabbertBB]

Since we have almost always sat on the 1st base side at CS and now at MP we always take along a jacket or sweatshirt extra even on 90 degree days. It only took one time at CS to learn that what you see outside is not what you get inside. We also were at the May 31 game on the 1st base side, sitting comfy with our extra sweatshirt on and extra jacket on. But too many were shivering with their T-shirt and shorts only. Many resorted to signing up for credit cards to get a blanket. Never, never, never go to MP on the 1st base side without extra clothes.

I can remember too many times coming out with a winter coat,gloves and hat on at CS and fans on the 3rd base side would be sunburned and had on T-shirts and shorts.

[jeffy]

Shadows are forming from obstructions. I don't know if there's anything they can do though to stop that...it might have been too late.

 

Because of the retractable roof and maybe partly the style of roof that was chosen, the structure is very tall...so this would tend to mean the shadows move futher out on the field earlier. Of course, the angle of the sun is a factor too, which means the time of year and the longitude of the location are factors. Finally, the amount of foul territory has an impact on where the shadows fall.

 

I don't think the shadows are a result of any mistake, they are just a consequence of the design. Since there is a roof, it is a tall structure both in terms of the stands and the roof itself. They also wanted the stands to be close to the field. I assume, they wanted to not have an indoor dome feel, hence the large glass areas between the stands and the roof. I think, with the roof closed, it'd feel depressingly like the metrodome had they not put the glass areas in.

 

edit: I want to correct something I had posted, looking at the cub game right now, I realized/rembered that the shadows on the field only come from the 3rd base side as the sun is setting there. Because the structure is so much shorter than MP, the stands on the first base side do not create an shadows that would affect the field. There is a huge difference as it is 3:40 right now and shadows are barely appearing just right along the wall.

[hawing]

Also regarding the A/C or lack thereof, this is one of the perks in sitting in section 217, where I have my 10-pack.

217 represent!

Though we sit toward the back, and while we can hear the hum of the AC in the press area, I can't say I've ever felt cooled off by it. The other perks listed by Legacy25GT are pretty much on target.

[jeffy]

I sat in 216 about row 11 on May 9, they would not have had A/C going but I felt there was just more ventillation air flow there than when you are far down the line (at least down the RF line as I have never been down the line in left). I had noticed the same thing down on the field level behind the plate and we were all the way down in row 2 that time.

[Patrick425]

Also regarding the A/C or lack thereof, this is one of the perks in sitting in section 217, where I have my 10-pack.

217 represent!

Though we sit toward the back, and while we can hear the hum of the AC in the press area, I can't say I've ever felt cooled off by it. The other perks listed by Legacy25GT are pretty much on target.

217 in da house!

Last row. Great seats and yes the A/C from the press box on the humid days is very nice, along with the multiple foul balls that we have obtained over the years.

[AJAY]

Even though a lot of other ballparks have shadows, Miller Park clearly has the worst and most extreme visibility problems for the late afternoon hours. I have never seen anything like it in all the years I have followed baseball. Even though the park is extremely highly regarded for all it's strengths, the shadow problem is the biggest weakness of the park. Both the Brewers and visiting players complain a lot about it. As a Brewers fan, I don't feel good about it.

 

I don't think tinted windows are the answer because the glare and shadows would still be there. Also, there isn't a sun and shadow problem until about 3:00 PM . . .so permanently tinted windows would likely diminish the ambience during times when the sun might not be a problem.

 

If curtains are not the answer, then maybe some kind of solid retractable shield could be used to temporarily block unwanted light. It could be some kind of solid platform that slides along the base of the windows. I don't think it would be that hard or expensive to design something.

 

I strongly believe something needs to be done.

[jeffy]

It will vary by time of year, but currently you are way off on the 3 pm time for anything related to the windows. On Thursday it was not until the very end of a very long game that the sunlight coming through the windows reached home plate. That was about 4:30 or 4:45. Maybe in August and Sept this will occur earlier, in which case one option would be to start at noonish...in fact, perhaps this is why the did start at 12:05 in April and May???

I assume your 3 pm time is actually related to the shadow from the roof, when the roof is open. The only solution to that would appear to be to never open the roof for day games. I'm certainly opposed to that, I'm afraid the players will just have to deal with the ball park as it is.

You know, I just realized that this means the whole premise of this discussion is, I think, flawed...the sun coming through the windows is not even the cause of any problems for the batters...so curtains or tinting the windows would not help at all. Sun coming through the windows really only affects the left fielder.

[bani1717]

Would it even affect the left fielder? Does that little "sun spot" from those windows ever even make it to the outfield (other than for games like today's 3:05 start)? The left fielder won't have an issue unless we have a long game late in the season, where that light spot makes it all the way out to left field.

 

The sun coming through the windows could, theoretically, affect the batter though, since for a time he will be in sunlight and the pitcher in the shadow. And if the game does go long enough, the batter will reach shade again while the pitcher is still in sunlight. In any case, the major issue with the shadows is clearly when the roof is open. Idk if/how much players (as opposed to visitng announcers) complain about the shadows, but if they are complaining they just need to get over it and play ball. Every park has its weird quirks (look at the flagpole/hill in the outfield in Houston, the Green Monster and then the very short RF fence in Boston, etc.) Miller Park just happens to have shadows that move across the field for day games. Big deal.

[RockCoCougars]

How about closing it when it rains and leaving it open otherwise? Just another reason Miller Park is no County Stadium.

[Invader3K]

What people have to realize is that the roof is closed with marginal weather to make the place more comfortable for the casual fans who would probably complain if it's a bit too cold. If it makes the team more money in the long run, then I'm all for it.

[jeffy]

Would it even affect the left fielder?

Braun seemed to have some trouble with one fly ball or maybe it was more of a line drive in Thursday's game. But, really, no big deal as presumably sun can get in one's eyes in any ballpark (except the metrodome, tropicana, or skydome).

 

I would think the players would prefer to deal with the shadows at MP over dealing with the weather...such as the Brewers had to do in Pittsburg and St. Louis.