Hall Running Out of Time

[logan82]

What I would like to see is Gamel at 3B every day, Counsell getting 2 starts at 2B a week against RHP, Hall getting all the starts at 2B against LHP, and McGehee getting the balance of the starts at 2B.

 

I would be okay with a Gamel/ Hall straight platoon at 3B with Hall as a late inning defensive replacement. McGehee getting all but 2 starts a week at 2B which would be Counsell starting against RHP.

 

 

"Casey McGehee is swinging the bat pretty well and doing all right," said Macha. "Maybe he'll get some playing time at third. I don't know. We'll see how things go."

 

There is no reason to give McGehee any time at 3B unless Gamel gets the job full time and needs a day off. There is zero reason(baring injury) to start McGehee over Hall against LHP.

 

Generally speaking, I like that Macha is willing to tinker with his lineup. It makes sense to move a guy like Hart down in the lineup vs RHP. However doing things like batting McGehee 2nd against a LHP while Hardy and Hall bat 6th and 7th is just wrong.

[joepepsi]

McGehee needs to play every day at 2B and Gamel everyday at 3B. McGehee's value in the trade market right now is that of a career minor leaguer with a cup of coffee in the majors. If he plays 4 months at 2B everyday, hits .270 with some pop and plays solid defense, now you've not only turned him into a guy with value in the market, you've also freed up the possibility of trading other middle infielders in your system.

He will also work as a cheap backup at 2nd or 3rd in 2010 if they can somehow unload Hall and at least a portion of his contract. No doubt he could play 1B on an occasional Sunday afternoon. Then, depending on what happens at ss, you can bring back Counsell for yet another season as the ss backup.

[3Putt]

I really like McGehee and think he's going to be a solid player. He hit for some power in Spring Training and I expect we'll start to see more long balls from him as he settles in. Supposedly 3B is his more natural position, but since he's been doing well enough at 2B I agree that 3B should be Gamel's until he proves he can't handle it. Counsell can be used for pinch hitting, spot starts and as a late inning defensive replacement.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I think we should trade our entire team to the Mariners for Russell Branyan. To please the fans who seem to hate every guy hitting below 900 OPS, the Brewers should adopt a "The King and His Court" strategy. We'll start Yo every day with Braun, Fielder and 3TO. That way we can get rid of all those stiffs on our team.

To be fair, this thread is about one player who we all hate. And for good reason too. He has the lowest OBP on our team, and his SLG is lower then everyone but Kendall. He's also hitting .170 against righties, and has a .211 overall BA, but yet he continues to start. People are just voicing their frustrations over his poor play, and the fact that he should be held accountable. People have the right to be down on a guy playing this bad. I don't see any threads bashing other players on our team. Although, Branyan would be a much better option than Hall also at this point. Pretty much anyone would. The only other player besides Hall that people may be somewhat down on is Hart, and that isn't even as bad. Hall hasn't done anything to warrant people not hating him at this point. Personally, I think the majority of our team has done well this year, with the exception of Hall, and lately Hart. Kendall hasn't hit well, but he brings more to the table than that. This thread is based on Macha saying that Hall is close to being benched, so it should be about how bad Hall is playing.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Just for kicks, 3TO is amazing this year. He's hitting .319, with a 1.035 OPS, and he's even hitting .304, with a .965 OPS against lefties. He'd look really good at third base now, but no one would of projected these numbers from him, except Jack Z I guess, lol.

[logan82]

Hall has been playing just like many people expected. I am not a big fan of Hall, but I will not get angry with or blame Hall for starting against RHP when it has been clear for over 2 years now that he doesn't hit them even adequate enough to be a full time player. I was hoping he would prove me wrong, but he hasn't to this point and with a good player to play against RHP, he should be platooned.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Hall has caused his own problems with his stubbornness. When Hall was at his best he would go to the opposite field and do it with tremendous power. Now he insists on trying to pull everything and all he does is flail away with every swing. I am at the point where I just dont think Hall cares about his performance.

[1992casey]

To be fair, this thread is about one player who we all hate.

 

I don't think so. I think he's a good guy with a likable personality. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

Outside of that, it's been pointed out that he provides average defense. I think it'd be better than average if it weren't for his patented airheaded lapses. He still hits lefties, and he has use as a defensive replacement for Gamel. He's not producing at the level of his contract, but it's not like he's useless.

 

As was pointed out above, (using Fatter than Joey's words), "Hall could refuse his (minor league) assignment and tell the Brewers to pound sand." There'd be no monetary consequence if he refused.

[Hate those Rodents]

Does anyone think that we should try and trade Bill Hall to the Texas Rangers for Vincente Padilla? Is that a trade that makes sense salary wise for both teams?

[jeffy]

To be fair, this thread is about one player who we all hate.

 

I don't think so. I think he's a good guy with a likable personality. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

I agree, he seems like a good guy. I certainly don't hate him. It is just disappointing and frustrating to see him stink at the plate. It'd be great if he were to perform like he did a few years ago, resulting in Gamel going back down after June 21 (last game with a DH). I don't think it's gonna happen, though.

[PrinceEatMeat]

To be fair, this thread is about one player who we all hate.

 

I don't think so. I think he's a good guy with a likable personality. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

I agree, he seems like a good guy. I certainly don't hate him. It is just disappointing and frustrating to see him stink at the plate. It'd be great if he were to perform like he did a few years ago, resulting in Gamel going back down after June 21 (last game with a DH). I don't think it's gonna happen, though.

Ok, let me rephrase that. I didn't mean as a person. But we are all annoyed by, and probably hate his play. I don't hate him as a person, I just am really starting to hate him as a player. It's just so annoying to keep seeing him in the lineup and failing.

[rluzinski]

I'm supposed to believe that if Hall woke up one morning and decided to try and go opposite field more often, he would realize a significant increase in production? Furthermore, I'm supposed to believe that the only thing motivating him NOT to do that is a morbid desire to continue playing poorly?

If you have to come up with such a farfetched scenario as Hall wanting to suck, to find an explanation for your theory, that should probably tell you that your theory is almost certainly incorrect. I think Hall wants to be the hero more than almost anyone else on the team.

 

And I can see no reason why Hall would accept a minor league assignment. He'd be better of rejecting it and hoping he gets DFA's. He'll still get paid and would have a decent shot to get picked up to platoon somewhere.

[trwi7]

Does anyone think that we should try and trade Bill Hall to the Texas Rangers for Vincente Padilla? Is that a trade that makes sense salary wise for both teams?

We'd be adding quite a bit of salary. I wouldn't do that as it might prevent us from going after a much better pitcher at the deadline.

[Thurston Fluff]

DFA'ing Hall would only end in us paying him to hit against lefties for another team and us paying even more to get another bench player who most likely wouldn't have the versatility to play the positions he can. Considering our options if we did want to replace him I don't even see who could be expected to perform better than he does off the bench.

He is what he is. A decent hitter against lefties who is being paid way too much. There is one on every team. We could trade our overpaid, under performing player for another over paid, under performing player but what does that accomplish? Getting rid of him means we pay him way too much not to hit against lefties when we need him to and not cover third base defensively when needed. Paying $1 for a 10 cent item is better than paying $1 for nothing at all.

In the off season maybe he can be unloaded. If not and we are still stuck paying him he can take over as the utility infielder. No need to waste more money just because some has already been wasted.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I think the main problem with Bill Hall is his refusal to make adjustments at the plate. He can't just come out wanting to try to hit opposite field more and expect it to happen. His mechanics and stance need adjusting in order for him to succeed against right-handed pitching. It is clear that Hall has decided that it's his way or the highway, and it isn't working for him at all. He clearly doesn't have a desire to play poorly, in fact, it's exactly the opposite. That's why I am surprised that he refuses again and again to let Dale work with him. Maybe a little bit of change with his stance and mechanics is just what he needs to turn a corner. However, I don't think he'll ever give into that, which means that he'll continue to struggle against right-handed pitching for his entire career. It's sad to see, especially because we all know that he has the potential to be a better player than he is right now.

[1992casey]

This is a shot in the dark, but I think Billy may have benefited from working with Butch Wyengar. That's totally impossible to prove, of course, and it certainly doesn't mean that Butch was a superior coach. I just think that something between the two of them clicked.

[Nottso]

I've also always felt that Hall was a likable guy, but I'm feeling less that way as time goes on. I think his biggest problem is his ego. His ego won't seem to allow him to change his absolutely horrible batting stance or make any adjustments. His ego seemingly causes him to pose and stare at any ball hit out of the infield, when he should be hustling his tail down the line. His ego causes him when interviewed to make comments along the lines of "I know what I can do" or "this team knows what I'm capable of" or the like. I have a feeling (and it's just my feeling) that he's not much fun to coach.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I've also always felt that Hall was a likable guy, but I'm feeling less that way as time goes on. I think his biggest problem is his ego. His ego won't seem to allow him to change his absolutely horrible batting stance or make any adjustments. His ego seemingly causes him to pose and stare at any ball hit out of the infield, when he should be hustling his tail down the line. His ego causes him when interviewed to make comments along the lines of "I know what I can do" or "this team knows what I'm capable of" or the like. I have a feeling (and it's just my feeling) that he's not much fun to coach.

I agree with you there. Like I said before, he just continually refuses to make adjustments. I would also say that it's his ego that has gotten in the way. I truly don't think this team does "know what he's capable of" anymore. We used to know what he's capable of, but now it's seeming like he isn't capable of anything at all. If he wants to play, he has to do something about his terrible performance. Just doesn't seem like his ego will allow it. He still thinks he's the same player who hit 35 homers in '06.

[cwolf2012]

I don't think it's that he "won't" make the adjustments, he simply just isn't talented enough. It's easy to say "just look to go the other way," but it's a completely different story to actually do it. I would bet a significant amount of money that his opposite field hits are more a product of luck than adjustments.

[logan82]

But we are all annoyed by, and probably hate his play. I don't hate him as a person, I just am really starting to hate him as a player. It's just so annoying to keep seeing my in the lineup and failing.

 

I think your anger is misplaced. Hall's limitations are well documented. If you are going to be angry at someone, I think you should be angry with Macha for continuing to play Hall against RHP.

[PrinceEatMeat]

But we are all annoyed by, and probably hate his play. I don't hate him as a person, I just am really starting to hate him as a player. It's just so annoying to keep seeing my in the lineup and failing.

 

I think your anger is misplaced. Hall's limitations are well documented. If you are going to be angry at someone, I think you should be angry with Macha for continuing to play Hall against RHP.

I agree that Macha is partially to blame, and I'm not upset with him giving Hall a chance. I think Macha expects Hall to make adjustments at the plate and he just isn't doing it. That's what upsets me. As a manager, you should expect players to be able to improve themselves. Macha expected a lot from Bill Hall, and he didn't come through for him. I'm just glad that he's finally going to give Gamel and McGehee a chance to play at third.

[TooLiveBrew]

While I am annoyed with Macha's handling of 3B this season, I agree with PrinceEatMeat that it isn't all that unreasonable to ask & expect a big-leaguer to hit better than the .170/.261/.283/.544 line Bill's scraped together against righties. At least his OBP-BA differential is nearly .100 points! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

 

The guy has limped to a a .633 OPS overall this season, while crushing LHP to the tune of .317/.333/.537/.870!

 

I know Hall has his limitations, and like I said I do hold Macha most accountable, but come on -- a .544 OPS against righties? That makes Kendall look like a decent option.

 

 

I have a feeling (and it's just my feeling) that he's not much fun to coach.

 

This has been mentioned/wondered by a few well-informed posters here in recent months/years. Stubbornness, that is.

[Nottso]

I don't think it's that he "won't" make the adjustments, he simply just isn't talented enough. It's easy to say "just look to go the other way," but it's a completely different story to actually do it. I would bet a significant amount of money that his opposite field hits are more a product of luck than adjustments.

Sorry, but I think it is absolutely because he "won't." Talent has nothing at all to do with that ridiculous stance, or the pose & stare. And really, that's what all the flap seems to be about. He simply won't change that stance. He also won't hustle down the line. If he would lose the stupid stance, and actually hustle a little bit, I might be able to at least say that he's trying.

[TheCrew07]

I'm supposed to believe that if Hall woke up one morning and decided to try and go opposite field more often, he would realize a significant increase in production? Furthermore, I'm supposed to believe that the only thing motivating him NOT to do that is a morbid desire to continue playing poorly?

If you have to come up with such a farfetched scenario as Hall wanting to suck, to find an explanation for your theory, that should probably tell you that your theory is almost certainly incorrect. I think Hall wants to be the hero more than almost anyone else on the team.

 

And I can see no reason why Hall would accept a minor league assignment. He'd be better of rejecting it and hoping he gets DFA's. He'll still get paid and would have a decent shot to get picked up to platoon somewhere.

It's only farfetched because you believe it to be.

 

It's very obvious that he's become a dead pull hitter and pitchers are exploiting that fact. His Spray Chart says it all

 

Not talented enough to go the other way? What does talent have to do with approach?

[logan82]

While I am annoyed with Macha's handling of 3B this season, I agree with PrinceEatMeat that it isn't all that unreasonable to ask & expect a big-leaguer to hit better than the .170/.261/.283/.544 line Bill's scraped together against righties.

 

Yes and no. I don't think it is unreasonable, but he has refused to make changes over the last year(I think that is about the time Branyan came up) since he was benched(mostly) vs RHP. I think it is unreasonable to keep playing him since he won't make the apparent necessary changes.