Parra & Escobar for Cliff Lee & DeRosa?

[jvrocksaz]

Would we be able to get Matt Cain from the Giants for the price of Escobar & Parra (and another top 10 positional prospect such as Taylor Green)? Cain is signed through 2010 with a team option for 2011 at a very reasonable cost... Would an extra year of Cain (compared to Lee) be worth it? Would the Giants consider something like that?

[lcbj68c]

That sounds like overpaying for Cain. Isn't Cain the #3 there? I don't see the Brewers giving up their #3, their top prospect and an additional 2nd tier prospect just for Matt Cain.

[jjfanec]

That sounds like overpaying for Cain. Isn't Cain the #3 there? I don't see the Brewers giving up their #3, their top prospect and an additional 2nd tier prospect just for Matt Cain.

Not saying it is not overpaying but Cain is definitely their number two. Lincecum is the one and Cain is the two. He currently 1st in wins in the NL and second in ERA. Although his peripherals do not seem to match up with his great success right now, he is still a very good pitcher. However, if what they were asking during the off-season remains the same we would definitely have to overpay to get him.

 

Back to the original players in question I would love to get Mark DeRosa. Where are we weak right now? 3B, 2B, and RF and DeRosa can play all those positions.

[patrickgpe]

i don't see the team adding that much payroll in a midseason trade. If a team is willing to take a bill hall or jeff suppan then maybe, but obviously that would defeat the purpose of what the tribe is trying to do.

[jvrocksaz]

I would give Adam Heether a shot before I would make a trade for DeRosa... Heether plays 2B, SS, 3B and according to some others on this board, he is very comparable to McGehee if not better!

[patrickgpe]

thats not a bad idea, he is batting .349 in Nashville.

[jjfanec]

I am all for giving Heether a shot but DeRosa is a proven player who even though he had a rough April would bring a lot to this team. His May was what this team would need from any of the spots he can play. An OPS around .800 and an OBP around .360. That would be nice. I would love for Heether to get a chance and prove that we do not need DeRosa but I have always like DeRosa so adding him to the team would be great in my mind.

[jvrocksaz]

That sounds like overpaying for Cain. Isn't Cain the #3 there? I don't see the Brewers giving up their #3, their top prospect and an additional 2nd tier prospect just for Matt Cain.

Cain is indeed the #2 there and pitching like a #1.... Manny is a #3 here and pitching like a AAAA much less a #5 at this point....

[jvrocksaz]

I am all for giving Heether a shot but DeRosa is a proven player who even though he had a rough April would bring a lot to this team. His May was what this team would need from any of the spots he can play. An OPS around .800 and an OBP around .360. That would be nice. I would love for Heether to get a chance and prove that we do not need DeRosa but I have always like DeRosa so adding him to the team would be great in my mind.

Don't get me wrong, I like DeRosa as well but considering what it would take to get him (prospects wise), add to that what he is to get paid (this would leave less to acquire a much needed SP)... My preference would be to give someone like Heether a chance and acquire a 'top of the rotation" starter that is more than just a half year rental! Cain or Lee would be just fine in my opinion!

[jvrocksaz]

Heck I would be willing to give them Escobar & Parra for just Lee... If they are willing to take Suppan's (or Hall's) contract as well!!!! ;-)

[twobrewers]

Parra & Escobar for Cliff Lee and DeRosa would be a steal for Milwaukee.

 

I highly doubt Cleveland would be interested.

[Trowekamp]

Looper and Suppan are likely done after the Brewers and they shouldn't want Bush back given a normal market. That leaves the potential Lee and they likely couldn't afford him.

 

So that means they'd be clearing something around 20-25 million off the payroll from the first three- I find it hard to believe that they couldn't either retain Lee or find a couple of solid starters for that money.

 

Not to mention that at that point they'll have to make some decisions on Fielder and/or Hardy as well, so there's a strong possibility that they'd get some good arms back for them as well.

I agree.. if Lee left we would probably have 30 -35 million to play with and still have Gallardo as your ace.. having Gallardo and Lee for this year and next would be awesome but I don't think Escobar and Parra would get it done.. Maybe both of them for just Lee would get Cleveland to bite. Maybe...

 

2012 the kids in A/A+ should be ready so you would just have to Philadelphia Philly it and try to out homer people 4 out of 5 games 2011

[jvrocksaz]

Cliff Lee looked REALLY good tonight...

[Oldcity]

Yeah, with Peavy going down the Indians can get a ton for Lee if they want to trade him.

[jvrocksaz]

After watching Cleveland play the Brewers the past 3 days it is clear to me that they have plenty of offense... They seem to really need pitching... Could the Brewers go after Cliff Lee with an offer of Parra, Cody, Dillard, and Butler? I understand that Cleveland does not have to move Lee but I think his value is definately at it's peak, especially with all the other top available starters going down day after day! Who else is left?

[Invader3K]

Not much is left, that's the answer.

 

I'm not convinced Cleveland is going to move him...they might hang onto him going into next season, and if they find they can't re-sign him, trade him before the deadline and probably still get a decent haul ala Sabathia.

[paulmolitor4]

I say no to Cliff Lee if it means parting with Escobar. I think he's the SS of the future for the Brewers as I don't see us re-signing Hardy.

[yount19.u]

I think the only way Lee gets traded is if another team blows them away with an awesome package of mostly pitching prospects. The Indians need pitching badly, and trading Lee would kill any chances of them competing next season as nate82 has pointed out. Lee has a reasonable option for next year and I don't think the Indians feel they are bottom dwellers in the division. I do think they will try and move DeRosa in order to acquire some pitching while his trade value is at its peak. I'm just not sure it would be worth what the Brewers would have to give up in order to get DeRosa. A rather see them make a run at a mid level starter and go with McGehee at second.

[TooLiveBrew]

Lee has a reasonable option for next year and I don't think the Indians feel they are bottom dwellers in the division.

 

Shapiro was interviewed on the CLE broadcast this past series, and his comments absolutely line up with that analysis. I think it would take the scenario you describe to see Lee move.

[Pudster13]

I say no to Cliff Lee if it means parting with Escobar. I think he's the SS of the future for the Brewers as I don't see us re-signing Hardy.

If Indians fans were reading this thread and hearing us balk at trading Alcides Escobar for Cliff Lee, I'm certain that they'd laugh in our faces. A defensive SS prospect who hasn't proven himself at AAA yet (Escobar) for the reigning AL CY Young Award winning ACE pitcher (Cliff Lee).

 

I just don't see the Indians trading Cliff Lee this season. Their fans would probably revolt if they traded a reigning AL CY Young Award winner two seasons in a row (Sabathia), especially to the same team.

[JohnBriggs12]

I say no to Cliff Lee if it means parting with Escobar. I think he's the SS of the future for the Brewers as I don't see us re-signing Hardy.

If Indians fans were reading this thread and hearing us balk at trading Alcides Escobar for Cliff Lee, I'm certain that they'd laugh in our faces. A defensive SS prospect who hasn't proven himself at AAA yet (Escobar) for the reigning AL CY Young Award winning ACE pitcher (Cliff Lee).

 

I just don't see the Indians trading Cliff Lee this season. Their fans would probably revolt if they traded a reigning AL CY Young Award winner two seasons in a row (Sabathia), especially to the same team.

First, Escobar isn't just a defensive SS. His career minor league BA is .293 with almost 2,500 professional AB's. That "he hasn't proved himself at AAA" is totally false and meaningless. Hanley Ramirez never played at AAA and had numbers at AA at the same age as Escobar that were roughly identical. Escobar is hitting .295/.340/.418 with 27 steals, 18 doubles and 4 triples in half a season at AAA. How is that unproven?

 

No paulmolitor4 is absolutely right. The Brewers shouldn't trade Escobar. The Indians wouldn't have Sabathia now either. So why should the fact they got something for him bother their fans? I doubt they'll trade Lee this year so the point is moot anyway, but it's not because Escobar wouldn't be attractive. If they could ever construct a decent bullpen, they could contend next year.

[804Sox]

First, Escobar isn't just a defensive SS. His career minor league BA is .293 with almost 2,500 professional AB's. That "he hasn't proved himself at AAA" is totally false and meaningless. Hanley Ramirez never played at AAA and had numbers at AA at the same age as Escobar that were roughly identical. Escobar is hitting .295/.340/.418 with 27 steals, 18 doubles and 4 triples in half a season at AAA. How is that unproven?

Despite statistical similarities in terms of production, I don't think Hanley is a good comp for Escobar - personally I prefer the Elvis Andrus comparison brought up in another thread but that's really not my point. W.r.t. Hanley, as someone who has followed the Sox minor league system for years, he was always regarded as a player whose production fell short of his scouting reports. Those that watched him play in the minors often reported that he seemed to be coasting and not putting forth much effort, a sentiment related to several off-field incicdents he had in the minors. Hanley, even when he wasn't hitting lots of homeruns in the minors, was always viewed as a legit 5-tool player who projected to hit 20+ homeruns. Even optimists like myself never saw him becoming the type of generational offensive force that he is on track to be, but he was always viewed as a player who would make an impact with his bat and athleticism, while Escobar's primary calling card seems to be his glove, and few project him to be a force offensively. This doesn't mean Escobar isn't valuable. If he is even an average hitter he'll be incredibly valuably due to his presumably elite glove, good speed, and controlled cost. However, he's no Hanley.

[TooLiveBrew]

However, he's no Hanley.

 

Just want to make sure you mean this in terms of offense, not overall. If Escobar is able to develop into an above-avg. SS (which I think he can/will), imo his value is higher than Ramirez's due to the gigantic gap between their glovework.

[nate82]

Jose Reyes is more comparable to Escobar than Ramirez is.

[Pudster13]

I know we can all dream, but comparing Escobar to Hanley Ramirez or Jose Reyes is not fair at all to the kid.

While he probably will have better defense than both those two, Escobar doesn't have as much power as Hanley or as much speed as Reyes.

I think a better, realistic comparable player would be Orlando Cabrera. (.270 hitter, 10 hr, 25 sb)

A solid player, but not a superstar with the bat.