McLouth to Braves

[Daubs]

Cameron is amazing and he rarely has to lay out for a highlight reel catch. That one he had in the 8th was incredible and he did it so effortlessly. He probably gets the ball that Gamel dropped in front of McLouth last night (although to be fair he was playing him in right center)...he broke late and didn't have the speed to get to it. Olney had a little clip saying the Pirates wanted to trade him while his defensive value was high. Probably just PR from the Pirates at this point since it seemed the Braves properly valued his average defense.

He also took a bad route to the ball. They replayed Gamel's second hit (the "blooper") and showed McClouth running straight toward left-center, then breaking in when he was half-way there.

 

I'm in complete agreement that Cameron, most likely, gets to that baseball.

[logan82]

According to the plus/minus system, McLouth was the worst CF in 2008, worst CF for 2006-2008 and the third worst from 2003-2008(ahead of Griffey and Edmonds).

[TooLiveBrew]

Last night the blooper that fell in front of McLouth is a perfect example of why he hurts you in CF. Imho it's also a great example of why a casual fan might feel that McLouth is a good defender -- 'He just couldn't get to that one, it wasn't bad fielding'

[Ennder]

That play Cameron made last night is one that very few CF in baseball get to, I was amazed he managed to catch it. So I'm watching quick play today and the play of the night is Melky Cabrera making a snow cone catch on a ball Cameron probably doesn't even have to dive for. That is the play that sticks in most peoples head, not the one where you showed great range.

 

Looking flashy is how you win gold gloves, not actually having good range.

[Thurston Fluff]

I agree that looking flashy is not the same as being good but I do wonder why people think good players don't make as many diving catches or flashy plays. Wouldn't all players have to make diving catches or great running catches? Granted some guys like Cameron would make a routine catch where other less capable players would have to dive but when Cameron is at the end of his range he would still need to make a great play. They would just be on balls others couldn't even come close enough to even have a chance to dive at.

[brewerfan82]

I've wondered the same thing, however, someone with great range will have more plays that overlap with one of his corner outfielders. So it's possible that some plays that would require him to make a great play would already be covered more easily by another player.

[TooLiveBrew]

At this point, if I see Cam have to make a diving play on a ball... I think he either must've gotten a bad jump, or that it was one of the best plays you'll see all year.

 

I have to agree with Ennder, that catch in RC last night was sensational. Reminded me of the play he made in RC at Coors Field last season. And fwiw, the Indians' announcers basically had to pick their jaws up off the floor after Cam's catch. Really a fun way to hear that play called -- hearing the wind go out of the other team's sails in a way.

[Ennder]

The flashy diving play is something that you only get a few chances a year to make in the OF unless you like to slide/dive for balls you don't need to. Not saying that Cameron doesn't have as many chances for a flashy play, just that those plays are the ones people remember and they are less common than the type of play where range decides if it is caught or not.

[JJHardy7]

Last night the blooper that fell in front of McLouth is a perfect example of why he hurts you in CF. Imho it's also a great example of why a casual fan might feel that McLouth is a good defender -- 'He just couldn't get to that one, it wasn't bad fielding'

 

I guess I don't quite get this or the other comment (not from you) that since he dives at stuff he won the award. Defense still can't be measured to a science that hitting can be. Again, I don't think McLouth is a top 1/3 or 2/3 of OFs. I think he's miscast in CF.

 

The one thing I still don't get is that on this board some complain about how small markets get zero love, etc, etc. A guy from Pittsburgh won a GG. Nobody besides Pirates fans have cared about this team for a few years. Again, Nate isn't a great or even average CF. Compared to his competition though...who should've won the award that played enough? If it's simply hitting, diving, and lack of errors (which is a bad stat), Ryan Braun would've walked away with this award. McLouth IMO has a pretty nice arm. I think his arm may have won him the award. I don't think that's the way to do it, but he does have some qualities besides 'he sucks, he's terrible' type of deal. He should be in RF IMO and I don't know if he's GG quality there, but he'd be above average IMO. Why did the Pirates put him in CF is my question?

[dlk9s]

If it's simply hitting, diving, and lack of errors (which is a bad stat), Ryan Braun would've walked away with this award.

Braun made nary a diving play last year. He played a very conservative LF, which is fine since it was his first time ever playing the position. Also, Braun already had a reputation of being a terrible fielder. I doubt any voters even thought of him for a GG because of his history, even though it was at a different position.

[TooLiveBrew]

Why did the Pirates put him in CF is my question?

 

My guess is so his bat has more value. They might have felt he could be roughly an average defender.

[Ennder]

f it's simply hitting, diving, and lack of errors (which is a bad stat), Ryan Braun would've walked away with this award.

 

It takes a miracle to win a gold glove as LF, maybe if Braun played CF this would make some sense.

[JJHardy7]

It takes a miracle to win a gold glove as LF, maybe if Braun played CF this would make some sense.

 

So it's not as simple as making some dives in the OF and having a big bat? I think that's kind of my point. There are more moving parts involved for a Pirate player that isn't really popular on a national basis to win a GG. I don't think he's as terrible as some think he is here, but that's my opinion. I would move him to RF though.

[TooLiveBrew]

It's discussed earlier in this thread... McLouth had a play on the national stage that got him a lot of attention & votes. He's a below-avg. CF at best by every metric I've seen (including the eye test).

 

The point on LF is that the OF GGs go almost exclusively to CFs.