Tigers, Giants and Red Sox scouting Corey Hart...

[twobrewers]

Teams looking for a corner outfielder have targeted Corey Hart as a possible solution, and the Brewers need a starting pitcher. The Tigers, Giants, and Red Sox either have scouted Hart or discussed him.

Boston Globe

As disappointing as Corey has been lately - I don't really see a natural fill-in on the Brewers roster. I am frustrated to keep hearing that the Brewers "need a starting pitcher". I believe we are still #1 in quality start in the National League.

[lcbj68c]

Jonathan Sanchez or Matt Cain seem interesting to me. Though I think it would take more than Hart to bring Cain over.

[JohnBriggs12]

Teams looking for a corner outfielder have targeted Corey Hart as a possible solution, and the Brewers need a starting pitcher. The Tigers, Giants, and Red Sox either have scouted Hart or discussed him.

Boston Globe

 

As disappointing as Corey has been lately - I don't really see a natural fill-in on the Brewers roster. I am frustrated to keep hearing that the Brewers "need a starting pitcher". I believe we are still #1 in quality start in the National League.

Why would it frustrate you? They could use a starting pitcher. 4 of their 5 starters have ERA's over 4 and two of them have ERA's over 5. The bullpen is carrying this pitching staff. Now Gerut and Catalanotto have both played semi-regularly in the past year, so I don't think it's quite as dire as you suggest. Either one of them platooning in RF with Hall or even McGehee might be able to produce as much as Hart until July when they can make a move on a Jermaine Dye, Brad Hawpe or some other quality veteran that's on the market.

[Never Outhustled]

It doesn't make sense for the Giants to trade one of there established starting pitchers for Hart if there looking to get better now, but it would make sense for them to package one of their AA stud pitchers (Alderson or Bumgarner). The Brewers could then use these prospects to package for a stud pitcher like Webb or Halladay.

[hauser42]

Hart for Cainn makes a lot of sense for both teams. Cainn would help the Brewers need for a top end of the rotaion guy for years to come and Hart would give the Giants a nice young hitter to help rebuild.

 

Not sure I like the platoon options or replacement if they move Hart. If the cant get a ready to go young SP then you dont trade Hart.

[apirk]

There is no way they would trade Cain for HArt. Cain right now is one of the best SP in the game and Hart is nowhere near the top of the best corner OF in the game. If they don't do a package deal at best all they will get is maybe a #3.

[Hate those Rodents]

Yep, I doubt we can get Cain, but Jonathan Sanchez would be very nice to have for more than a couple years.

[PeaveyFury]

Yep, I doubt we can get Cain, but Jonathan Sanchez would be very nice to have for more than a couple years.

 

But again, that's really the type of deal better suited for the offseason rather than now. Unless the Brewers drop out of contention before the deadline, they can't afford to open up a hole to fill another. The dropoff from Hart to a Gerut/Catalanotto RF is probably a greater downgrade than the upgrade of going from Parra to Sanchez.

[Never Outhustled]

Cain right now is one of the best SP in the game and Hart is nowhere near the top of the best corner OF in the game

All of Cains periferils are the same as the last 2 years, meaning his ERA will go back up to high 3s, like the last few years. He is more valuable than Hart though.

[Hate those Rodents]

I agree Peavey. However, we need to still consider a deal like this if offered to us and weigh whether or not it is worth it. Corey Hart is currently our #7 hitter, so I am not sure Cat/Gerut couldn't be just fine hitting in that slot.

[twobrewers]

Why would it frustrate you? They could use a starting pitcher.

Heading into today the Brewers lead the national league in quality starts. So saying "the bull pen is carrying this pitching staff" is quite a stretch. (While the bull pen has been great - a quality start is completely the work of the starting staff)

Obviously someone like Peavy could help the Brewers. Johnathan Sanchez (or his type) has very little value this year to the Brewers. We are going to trade away our starting LF for a career 5.10 ERA pitcher to replace one of our starting pitchers? (None of whom have a career ERA above 5.00?)

[endaround]

Defense is carrying the Brewers. Looper's FIP is 5.64 and Suppan's is 6.65. Now Looper will likely stop giving up HRs at the current frightening rate but Suppan's lost even more speed on his FB so even if his HR rate drops below 2(!) we still have a bad pitcher.

[PeaveyFury]

Corey Hart is currently our #7 hitter, so I am not sure Cat/Gerut couldn't be just fine hitting in that slot.

 

The Brewers should be focused on putting the best quality lineup out there from top to bottom, not focusing on the relative talent based on where in the lineup a guy is hitting. Saying they could be fine in the 7th spot doesn't really matter when replacing Hart for them still downgrades the overall performance of a team, probably by a considerable amount more than Sanchez would upgrade the rotation.

[Weirdos19]

But would Cain and Winn for Hart and Jeffress get it done?

 

Winn can lead off and is a good player. Not sure what his contract is, but I think he's a free agent after the season is over.

[PeaveyFury]

But would Cain and Winn for Hart and Jeffress get it done?

 

That deal probably makes a lot more sense for both sides....

[804Sox]

But would Cain and Winn for Hart and Jeffress get it done?

 

Winn can lead off and is a good player. Not sure what his contract is, but I think he's a free agent after the season is over.

As an outsider with no real preference for either team, I think that there's no way the Giants would accept this deal.

 

Hart's a decent player, and the 70-ish XBH are great, but his .330-ish OBP relegates him to the bottom of the order for most teams. While his stuff is declining, Cain is still a top-of-the-rotation starter. The Giants would be foolish to give up both he and Winn, whose OPS has been very similar to Hart's over the past few years, for Hart and Jeffress - an intriguing prospect, but a guy who likely will never be the type of pitcher that Cain is (I'm really uncomfortable with his walk rates)

 

Again, just personal taste, but I'm not a big fan of Hart's swing. I know he's 6-6 but it's still waaay too long, suggesting to me that his .295 AVG and .353 OBP from '07 are a bit of an abberation.

[Tbadder]

I don't think Hart has much trade value. Maybe he gets you a #4 pitcher. He can run, play pretty good defense, but not much else. Okay, maybe some occasional power. It's gotta be a package.

[TheCrew07]

I don't see any deals being made during the season that involve any of the position players, those deals would have to happen in the off-season. It's really too bad we couldn't have done the suggested Fielder for Kotchman and Santana deal that bounced around on the forum last year... it would have to be a deal like that though where we picked up a Pitcher plus an average replacement and there's only 2 guys on the roster that carry enough value for a deal like that, and both are probably too close to FA for a trading partner to pull the trigger.

 

As X said, we're much more likely to get prospects (which we need anyway as we have no one projectable above A+) but again, I think that would be an off season move as well. I don't see Hardy or Fielder getting moved prior to FA unless a team is willing to drastically overpay... Both are popular players and productive... Hart may get moved but how much value does he really carry if he doesn't adjust to that low and away curve/slider that's been causing him problems?

[JohnBriggs12]

Why would it frustrate you? They could use a starting pitcher.

Heading into today the Brewers lead the national league in quality starts. So saying "the bull pen is carrying this pitching staff" is quite a stretch. (While the bull pen has been great - a quality start is completely the work of the starting staff)

Obviously someone like Peavy could help the Brewers. Johnathan Sanchez (or his type) has very little value this year to the Brewers. We are going to trade away our starting LF for a career 5.10 ERA pitcher to replace one of our starting pitchers? (None of whom have a career ERA above 5.00?)

The quality start stat is interesting but not a real stat. The one area where the Brewers stand out relative to the rest of the NL in more significant stats (Runs scored, starter ERA, Bullpen ERA) is bullpen ERA. So I stand by my statement that it's the pen that is clearly the one area where this team is far above average to this point.

 

I don't expect the Brewers will trade Hart either. It's just not Melvin's style to deal a player he has control over nor be thinking one or two deals ahead of himself. But I think they should strongly consider doing so. Hart won't likely bring a top quality starter back. But he might bring the type of prospect they need to enhance a package to land a Peavy. As my earlier post indicated too, I think they'll be some hitters that are superior to Hart available at the deadline too. It's not like the lineup couldn't use an upgrade and RF is one area.

[southpaw121505]

Hart's a decent player, and the 70-ish XBH are great, but his .330-ish OBP relegates him to the bottom of the order for most teams.

Not a team with Bengie Molina batting cleanup

[Invader3K]

Tom Haudricourt says the reports of the Brewers shopping Hart around are bogus. That doesn't mean teams aren't looking at him, though, I guess.

[TooLiveBrew]

Wouldn't fit Melvin's style at all. Hardly sells low, if ever. I'm sure that most teams scout numerous players during the course of a season, and sometimes it just happens to get reported.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Hopefully teams stay interested into the off-season. I would definitely think about trading him then. As of right now, I don't feel like it's a good move. We probably wouldn't get the starter we need, and I don't see Gerut being as good everyday in right. If we have time in the off-season to find a good replacement in right field that would be good. Maybe a Hardy/Hart package could get us a really good starter and prospects.

[piccione88]

Ken Rosenthal backed up what haudricourt said about the brewers not actively shopping Hart. Rosenthal said that two clubs contacted Melvin about Hart, but were told "he was not listening to offers for Hart."

 

As others have said it is not Melvin's style, nor does it make sense to sell low on a player. Especially a player who has shown that he can be an all star caliber right fielder. As far as trading him in the off-season goes, we will probably already have to fill one outfield spot, with Cameron being a free agent.

[LouisEly]

As disappointing as Corey has been lately - I don't really see a natural fill-in on the Brewers roster.

 

Actually I don't think that Katin (or a Katin/Catalanotto platoon) could be any worse than what Hart has done the last year and a half. No, Katin's not an OBP guy, but Hart hasn't been either (.311 this year, .300 last year) and Katin has an OPS with runners on base of .931 this year which has to MLE better than Hart's .644 OPS with runners on base.

 

Now that Manny Parra has officially fallen apart (hopefully only temporarily), they do need a starter and if Hart can net a good starter and a Katin/Catalanotto platoon can give just as much if not more production than Hart then I think that trade improves the team.