JJ Hardy for Clay Buchholz?

[kramnoj]

If he was that good - the sox wouldn't have signed Smoltz and Penny this past offseason.

 

That's not a compelling argument. The Sox had extra money to throw at SP gambles for depth. Buchholz struggled last season, so there was good reason to let him get some more experience in the minors. If the Brewers wanted him, it wouldn't be because of his performance for this year, it would be for the next 6 years.

 

But this is probably all moot. This deal only happens this season, and it doesn't happen with the Brewers in contention, so hopefully it doesn't happen.

[TheCrew]

Good points kramnoj - I guess the main issue I had is some think he slides into the brewers rotation right now and improves it. Like you said, this would be a move that would be made for the future of the team.

[JohnBriggs12]

Assuming the Red Sox would deal Bucholz straight up for Hardy (and I think they would in large part because Hardy's swing is ideally suited to Fenway), the Brewers have to ask themselves if Bucholz replacing Parra in the rotation is a big enough upgrade to offset what most think would be a downgrade offensively from Hardy to Escobar.

 

Frankly, I'm coming around to this thinking. First of all, Hardy has been a major disappointment this season offensively. A .669 OPS is not what I envisioned him having when he was tearing up Arizona. Opposing pitchers have figured out he will consistently take mediocre first pitch fastballs down the heart of the plate and they keep getting ahead of him in the count. True, he's likely to have a hot streak at some point, but at best it will take him back to middle of the pack overall among NL shortstops. Escobar on the other hand has heated up big time in AAA. I think Escobar has the potential to be one of the most exciting players in all of baseball and I don't think he's as far away from that as some on here think. He may end up being an upgrade offensively over what Hardy's provided so far this year.

 

As for Bucholz, he too seems ready to be a major league starter. He might not be the stud prospect some Red Sox fans think but he's certainly ready to pitch in a rotation based on his minor league record this year. I'm still not sure Parra is or ever will be a reliable major league starter. If he's not, the Brewers are greatly in need of a young starter.

 

Finally, the loss of Weeks has led to issues at the top of the order. Escobar isn't a patient hitter, but neither was Molitor when he came up and he made that lineup go. The Brewers need that threat on the bases as a distraction if nothing else. McGehee and Counsell are adequate to cover 2nd base and with Hall on the bench they are somewhat protected.

 

Bottom line, trading Hardy now might propel this team.

[lcbj68c]

I just don't like the idea of a Gamel/Escobar starting left side of the infield in the midst of a pennant race. Therefore, I'd subscribe to the theory that Hardy goes nowhere, atleast until the offseason. However, Buchholz is an intriguing idea and we do need a SP. What are the thoughts of what Escobar could fetch from the Red Sox or somebody else? Either standalone or with other prospects/major leaguers, perhaps with a Billy Hall dump, etc.

[TheCrew]

Frankly, I'm coming around to this thinking. First of all, Hardy has been a major disappointment this season offensively. A .669 OPS is not what I envisioned him having when he was tearing up Arizona. Opposing pitchers have figured out he will consistently take mediocre first pitch fastballs down the heart of the plate and they keep getting ahead of him in the count. True, he's likely to have a hot streak at some point, but at best it will take him back to middle of the pack overall among NL shortstops. Escobar on the other hand has heated up big time in AAA. I think Escobar has the potential to be one of the most exciting players in all of baseball and I don't think he's as far away from that as some on here think. He may end up being an upgrade offensively over what Hardy's provided so far this year.

 

As for Bucholz, he too seems ready to be a major league starter. He might not be the stud prospect some Red Sox fans think but he's certainly ready to pitch in a rotation based on his minor league record this year. I'm still not sure Parra is or ever will be a reliable major league starter. If he's not, the Brewers are greatly in need of a young starter.

 

Bottom line, trading Hardy now might propel this team.

Hardy has always been streaky - 2007 it was April and May that he went on a tear - last year it was June/July when he hit .328 with 13 homers during that span.

 

I do like the idea of Buchholz as a long term solution, but doing the trade now runs a huge risk with breaking up team chemistry - seems this trade is much better suited for the offseason.

[TooLiveBrew]

First of all, Hardy has been a major disappointment this season offensively. A .669 OPS is not what I envisioned him having when he was tearing up Arizona. Opposing pitchers have figured out he will consistently take mediocre first pitch fastballs down the heart of the plate and they keep getting ahead of him in the count. True, he's likely to have a hot streak at some point

 

Like the .888 OPS he posted in May?

[twobrewers]

Err why? He's a decent player, but why would we trade hitting for more hitting, and why would Boston want to make that deal? Who's going to play CF for them? Baldelli? An aging Kotsay?

1. My main point is that JJ Hardy is not enough for Boston to part with Buchholz. We already have a major league talent evaluator saying as much in an article in the Boston Globe on Sunday.

 

2. Ellsbury's value is pretty low right now. I believe Ellsbury for Hardy to be a much more equitable trade.

 

3. Ellsbury would likely receive a "bump" from moving from the AL East to the NL Central. I believe he would be a 40 steal .350 OBP lead-off hitter for the Brewers. His lack of slugging is mostly immaterial as a lead-off hitter. This would allow the Brewers to save money by letting Cameron leave, as well as move Weeks down in the order (#2 hitter) to collect more RBIs.

 

4. It would create a hole for Boston in CF. But at this point, they have had Ellsbury batting as low as 8th - so I don't think Boston views it as nearly a big of a hole as a shortstop. Besides, Boston can always sign Cameron.

 

5. As an additional bonus, if Milwaukee loved Tony Gwynn - they will really love a lead-off hitter who can actually hit! Also, he can replace JJ Hardy as the team heartthrob.

[RyDogg66]

The Red Sox are almost starting to remind me of the Dodgers and Angels with the way the hoard their prospects and refuse to trade them for anything other than a superstar. The Dodgers were at the front of many rumors when they had three top pitching prospects in Edwin Jackson, Greg (I think it was Greg) Miller and somebody Hanrahan. Eventually all three got hurt/flamed out etc etc and they have nothing really to show for them. Granted, that may not happen with Bucholtz but a prospect is never a sure thing, especially when they have struggled in a brief MLB stint. So the Red Sox and believe that Bucholtz is too much to give up for Hardy, but in less time than it will take for Hardy to hit free agency Bucholtz might have completely flamed out, while I am sure Hardy will keep producing at an .800 OPS level.

[Hate those Rodents]

I think the chances of CB being a bust are about the same as JJ Hardy hitting under .230 this year with few home runs. Highly unlikely...

[paulmolitor4]

http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/3c735837cd1e43215fdc8ccf3183262a8525a3a.pjpg

 

 

I'm beginning to like the thought of Clay Buchholz in a Brewer uniform more and more. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

 

[rotoherb]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned here or not, but the Red Sox are basically the only team that would be interested in trading for Hardy during this season. None of the other contenders, outside of maybe Detroit, would be looking for a SS. It's not likely that the Red Sox are going to outbid themselves and I'm sure that Melvin knows he can get interest from more teams during the offseason. I'd say that the odds of Hardy being traded before the season is over are extremely low to non-existent.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned here or not, but the Red Sox are basically the only team that would be interested in trading for Hardy during this season. None of the other contenders, outside of maybe Detroit, would be looking for a SS. It's not likely that the Red Sox are going to outbid themselves and I'm sure that Melvin knows he can get interest from more teams during the offseason. I'd say that the odds of Hardy being traded before the season is over are extremely low to non-existent.

I would agree, because I think that Mevlin can foresee a bidding war for Hardy this off-season. Will that actually happen? It's too early to tell. If Hardy finishes with another strong season, I think a bidding war is a definite possibility.

[southpaw121505]

Well if we can deal him in the offseason for as good or better of a package I'm all for it. But, if Buchholz could be had now and might not be in the off season then I have a hard time turning that down. I know it would be tough to take the hit offensively this year. But man, 5-6 years of Buchholz is mighty tempting.

 

Especially if we can find a way to replace some of that offense by getting Holliday http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Hate those Rodents]

It looks like Clay is very frustrated with his situation and almost is asking to be traded in this new interview...

 

http://hackswithhaggs.com/2009/06/15/buchholz-willing-to-go-elsewhere-to-pitch-in-the-big-leagues.aspx

[Nader Raider Tim]

Local radio in the Appleton area is screaming to pull off a JJ Hardy for Brad Penny deal. Yeah that is right straight up JJ Hardy for Penny.

 

Gotta love local radio.

[TooLiveBrew]

Here are the comments from Buchholz:

 

Do you feel like you've done all you can do and you should be headed to Boston?

CB: I was sort of in the same position last year. Not as much or as good as I'm doing right now. But all the way up through the system in the minor leagues there wasn't that big of a hill that I had to climb. I'm not saying or trying to say that I'm better than anybody else, but it wasn't until I got to the big league is whenever I faced as far as when problems arose. I feel like I'm more equipped with everything that I have right now as far as the pitches and the mental aspect and (being) physically healthy to be up there and help that team. If not (the Red Sox) then I want to be in the big leagues and I do want to go somewhere where I'll be able to play and pitch every fifth day.

 

Is it frustrating at all mentally where you feel like you're ready and you can succeed?

CB: Yeah. I've had talks with my agent for the past month-and-a-half, two months and it's been just basically the same thing. There's nowhere to go and it's sort of a logjam up there. They're doing whatever they feel is right up there (in Boston) for the team to win. Whenever they come to a problem it seems like they come up with a way to fix it without me being in the picture. It is what it is. It's frustrating at times, but I'm going out and every fifth day here trying to help this team win and trying to get better every time I go out.

 

 

That certainly makes him sound as available & amenable to a trade as a player ever has been. I can't say I blame him -- at 24, he's losing money with each day he isn't pitching in the bigs. A .355 BABIP last season sure didn't make his life any easier.

 

I guess to me, the trouble with trading for Buchholz is that it (imho) would all but require moving Escobar. I really don't want to lose Alcides (would prefer to find a deal for J.J. in the offseason), and I don't think it would make much sense to move Hardy mid-season unless the F.O. thinks Alcides is 100% ready for the bigs... and I know Melvin basically said as much in a recent comment to the press.

[Invader3K]

I would think if Boston wants a shortstop at this point, they would be much more interested in Hardy than Escobar. They would have him for a year and a half, and would probably have an excellent chance at getting him re-signed if they wanted to. While Hardy has struggled this season at the plate, he is still very good defensively and just seems like he would fit in well with the BoSox. With Escobar, they'd be getting more of an unknown quantity, and the trade would look pretty terrible for them if he does indeed struggle at the big league level. They're a first place team right now, but with the Yankees nipping at their heels, they probably really can't afford to try a rookie at a key position.

[Oldcity]

This really has nothing to do with a Buchholz trade, but dude's really gotta lose that mock turtleneck.

[TooLiveBrew]

While Hardy has struggled this season at the plate, he is still very good defensively and just seems like he would fit in well with the BoSox. With Escobar, they'd be getting more of an unknown quantity, and the trade would look pretty terrible for them if he does indeed struggle at the big league level.

 

Great points, Invader.

 

Sorry, I meant more from the Brewers' p.o.v. it would be hard to trade J.J.... for precisely the reasons you cited why it'd be risky for BOS to bring back Escobar.

[MattFlair]

This really has nothing to do with a Buchholz trade, but dude's really gotta lose that mock turtleneck.

 

I disagree! He can follow in Chuck Crim's footsteps.

[jwill535]

Red Sox are talking to the Pirates about getting Jack Wilson, which obliviously would nullify the chance of a JJ trade to them.

[TheCrew07]

He kills the Brewers even when he's not playing them... boo...

[TooLiveBrew]

But even if the BoSox added Wilson, would he really get in the way of potentially/theoretically adding Hardy? Seems like in that situation you add Hardy first, and figure out what to do with Lowrie (if indeed BOS would 'give up' on him) & Wilson later.

[brewmann04]

pirates give them Wilson for a bucket of Balls

[twobrewers]

Would you trade J.J. Hardy and Parra for Clay Buchholz?

 

I believe J.J. will get white hot - but I know others are worried. At his current rate of production, he is pretty comparable to Escobar. Plus, Boston would get a young LHP with Parra, while the Brewers solve the #5 pitcher problem.