JJ Hardy for Clay Buchholz?

[TeeJayh1980]

Is there any reason that Clay Buchholz's profile on mlb.com now says "Re-assigned" instead of "active"?

 

http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=453329

[Hate those Rodents]

Just guessing here, but possibly because he's not pitching in the MLB but rather in MILB right now in AAA.

[Invader3K]

Yeah...as in he was "re-assigned" to AAA Pawtucket.

 

The more I think about it, I like the idea of the Brewres acquiring a young talented pitcher like this that they will have under control for a number of years. While I would hate to see Hardy leave, either Escobar or Hardy is bound to get traded at some point. With Weeks still around for a few more years, and Gamel likely sticking at 3B for now, they aren't going to try and shoehorn one of their shortstops at another position. Something is going to have to give sooner than later.

 

From a fan standpoint, I'm sure some people would be upset when/if Hardy gets traded...but it's not like this team doesn't have plenty of other fan favorites (Fielder, Braun, Gallardo, etc).

[TeeJayh1980]

Just guessing here, but possibly because he's not pitching in the MLB but rather in MILB right now in AAA.

 

Good point. So why aren't we keeping Hardy and moving him to 3rd, allowing Escobar to play SS and Gamel to play RF?

[Invader3K]

TeeJay, are you talking about for this season? What would we do with Corey Hart then? I also don't think they would want to move Gamel to a different position mid-season.

[TCSM]

Heether has very limited playing time at SS.

 

I assume he can play SS - but it much more likely a 2B or 3B.

 

With that in mind, I really don't think he is relevant to this conversation. (Unless you get back into endaround talking about McGehee - which was still off-topic)

I agree with endaround... Adam Heether is a great option!!! :-)

Are you Adam Heether? Everyone of your posts is just a bunch of exclamation points saying we should bring up Adam Heether etc. etc.

 

Since your so high on him, why do you think he should be playing SS?

[TeeJayh1980]

TeeJay, are you talking about for this season? What would we do with Corey Hart then? I also don't think they would want to move Gamel to a different position mid-season.

 

Invader3K, Yes...I was talking about this season. I simply can't stand Bill Hall and I would like to see him in anything but a Brewer uniform. Couldn't Gamel platoon RF with Hart? I'm not on the abandon Parra bandwagon yet, and I don't see Buchholz as a Parra replacement, if that's what all this talk is about. Going into next season with Hardy, Escobar, Weeks, Fielder and Rivera would be nice

[brewcrew7]

I may be one of the few but I think JJ is highly overrated in the brewer community. He goes through long stetches of unproductive outs even. He does have his hot streaks but when he is bad, he is really bad. His inconsistent play doesnt get talked about because he is loved and I dont get it. Some players can at least be productive with moving runners over, sac flys and such, but when JJ doesnt hit, he basically does nothing at all. I may be the only one but I just don't see why he is looked at as this untouchable player when he goes through these long stetches every year and more than one of them. Last year was a bit of the same except for that run where he was simply unconcious and could do no wrong.

[Invader3K]

Well, Hall looks to pretty much be riding the bench right now, so I'm not sure why he is any factor. Gamel seems to be the starting 3B for the most part right now. Why would he have to change positions now? I wouldn't platoon Gamel with anyone right now, until he shows he can't hit on a consistent basis.

 

As far as Buchholz, perhaps he could start in the bullpen and be eased into the rotation?

[PrinceEatMeat]

I may be one of the few but I think JJ is highly overrated in the brewer community. He goes through long stetches of unproductive outs even. He does have his hot streaks but when he is bad, he is really bad. His inconsistent play doesnt get talked about because he is loved and I dont get it. Some players can at least be productive with moving runners over, sac flys and such, but when JJ doesnt hit, he basically does nothing at all. I may be the only one but I just don't see why he is looked at as this untouchable player when he goes through these long stetches every year and more than one of them. Last year was a bit of the same except for that run where he was simply unconcious and could do no wrong.

Well, I'm on-board with you on that one. I think Hardy is pretty overrated offensively, because of his streaky hitting as you said. He'll have some hot streaks, but other times he just seems to be a liability, especially out of the 2 hole. Defensively he is always solid, and that's also something Escobar provides. I don't believe that Escobar would be a better option offensively within the next few years, but I think that he could end up being a better hitter than Hardy in the future, just because of his consistency. He is also a threat on the basepaths, whereas Hardy is one of the slowest players on our team. If we can get a solid, young pitcher for Hardy either now, or in the offseason, I would be really tempted to do it. I do think that the odd man out who will be shopped is Hardy. I don't think he has any plans of attempting to switch his position, and there's no way he'll trade away Escobar. I also don't think he'll move Gamel from third, when he already moved Braun from that same position, it might make him look bad. Hardy will likely be gone before next season, and if Buchholz is on the table right now, I think Melvin has to consider it.

[BrewPackBuck]

I may be one of the few but I think JJ is highly overrated in the brewer community. He goes through long stetches of unproductive outs even. He does have his hot streaks but when he is bad, he is really bad. His inconsistent play doesnt get talked about because he is loved and I dont get it. Some players can at least be productive with moving runners over, sac flys and such, but when JJ doesnt hit, he basically does nothing at all. I may be the only one but I just don't see why he is looked at as this untouchable player when he goes through these long stetches every year and more than one of them. Last year was a bit of the same except for that run where he was simply unconcious and could do no wrong.

Well, I'm on-board with you on that one. I think Hardy is pretty overrated offensively, because of his streaky hitting as you said. He'll have some hot streaks, but other times he just seems to be a liability, especially out of the 2 hole. Defensively he is always solid, and that's also something Escobar provides. I don't believe that Escobar would be a better option offensively within the next few years, but I think that he could end up being a better hitter than Hardy in the future, just because of his consistency. He is also a threat on the basepaths, whereas Hardy is one of the slowest players on our team. If we can get a solid, young pitcher for Hardy either now, or in the offseason, I would be really tempted to do it. I do think that the odd man out who will be shopped is Hardy. I don't think he has any plans of attempting to switch his position, and there's no way he'll trade away Escobar. I also don't think he'll move Gamel from third, when he already moved Braun from that same position, it might make him look bad. Hardy will likely be gone before next season, and if Buchholz is on the table right now, I think Melvin has to consider it.

 

I agree with everything you just said here PrinceEatMeat. Gamel hasnt showed anything for them to move him off of 3B yet. He had that one error but everything looks good so far imo, he doesnt need to be moved unless he becomes a huge liablitity (see Braun's rookie year).

 

Listen Hardy is an above average SS that can hit home runs. I believe Escobar can develop into the hitter JJ is, he wont hit as many home runs but he will get more extra base hits and can be a good base stealer for us. People forget that Weeks and Braun had green lights to go if they thought they would get into second base, the rest like Hart, Cameron had to get permission to run mostly because everyone was just getting caught at a high rate. This seemed to just dissapear when Weeks went down, I dont think Macha hates running he just hates giving up outs, so I think that if Escobar comes up he will be given that green light to go if he thinks he will make it.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I think one thing that needs to be factored in here is the performance of Manny Parra. I would think that if we acquired Buchholz, we'd want him to contribute to this team right away. I think that if Parra continues to struggle, and Escobar continues to produce in AAA, this trade becomes more and more of an option. Buchholz could replace Parra in the rotation if need be, or if there is some sort of an injury, he could also step in. If neither of these things happen, I don't see this trade happening mid-season. Although, it could happen after the season still.

[jjfanec]

I just do not see a first-place team trading a solid every day starter for a minor league pitcher during the season. Like others have said Hardy will be much talked about after the season in regard to trades. The Brewers should be in good position to get great value for him because they do not have to deal.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I just do not see a first-place team trading a solid every day starter for a minor league pitcher during the season. Like others have said Hardy will be much talked about after the season in regard to trades. The Brewers should be in good position to get great value for him because they do not have to deal.

Like I said, I don't see Melvin even considering it unless he absolutely NEEDS a starting pitcher. He can probably get at least equal value after the season for Hardy anyway. I think this would more be in a situation of need that he would make the trade during the season, and only because he thinks Escobar is ready for the bigs.

[804Sox]

I just do not see a first-place team trading a solid every day starter for a minor league pitcher during the season. Like others have said Hardy will be much talked about after the season in regard to trades. The Brewers should be in good position to get great value for him because they do not have to deal.

Even though he's in the minors, I think that it's more useful to look at Buchholz as a major league pitcher in terms of value. He'd be immediately ready to step into the Brewer's rotation, and would probably be in the majors and starting with most other teams besides the Red Sox.

 

I do, however, agree with you that the Brewers should not trade a core starter while in the middle of a pennant race unless the return is too good to pass up (Buchholz)

 

Finally, (and I apologize for making the same point several times now) I just don't think Hardy is near enough to pry Buchholz away from the Red Sox, and I may be a bigger Hardy fan than many of you (who watch him every day, ironically). In his last year of eligibility, BA had Buchholz as a top 5 prospect. He's dominated AAA three different times and has demonstrated that he CAN be a dominant MLB pitcher. Again, so as to not be obnoxious I'm going to stop there, but refer back a few pages if you want an extended defense of Clay's value.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I just do not see a first-place team trading a solid every day starter for a minor league pitcher during the season. Like others have said Hardy will be much talked about after the season in regard to trades. The Brewers should be in good position to get great value for him because they do not have to deal.

Even though he's in the minors, I think that it's more useful to look at Buchholz as a major league pitcher in terms of value. He'd be immediately ready to step into the Brewer's rotation, and would probably be in the majors and starting with most other teams besides the Red Sox.

 

I do, however, agree with you that the Brewers should not trade a core starter while in the middle of a pennant race unless the return is too good to pass up (Buchholz)

 

Finally, (and I apologize for making the same point several times now) I just don't think Hardy is near enough to pry Buchholz away from the Red Sox, and I may be a bigger Hardy fan than many of you (who watch him every day, ironically). In his last year of eligibility, BA had Buchholz as a top 5 prospect. He's dominated AAA three different times and has demonstrated that he CAN be a dominant MLB pitcher. Again, so as to not be obnoxious I'm going to stop there, but refer back a few pages if you want an extended defense of Clay's value.

Of course, I'm with you on this one. Buchholz has a major league no-hitter under his belt. That is evidence enough that he CAN be dominant. He struggled a little at the end of last year, but I gotta believe that he'd be in the Red Sox rotation right now, but he's just the odd-man out right now. He'd probably be in almost any rotation in the majors right now. He's just stuck behind Beckett, Wakefield, Dice-K, Penny, Lester, and soon Smoltz. Most teams don't have starting pitching that is that deep. Buchholz could for sure step into our rotation and be useful. I have no doubt about that.

[PrinceEatMeat]

In somewhat related news, Buchholz appears to be engaged to the former Case #26 girl on Deal or No Deal. He also dated a Penthouse Pet before that. Maybe this guy could give Hardy and Braun some competition for the ladies.

 

http://www.outincenterfield.com/2009/04/wedding-bells-for-buchholz/

[TooLiveBrew]

Well, I'm on-board with you on that one. I think Hardy is pretty overrated offensively, because of his streaky hitting as you said

 

I think if you compare Hardy to his peers at SS, you will see why he's valued so highly both on offense & defense.

[jvrocksaz]

Well, I'm on-board with you on that one. I think Hardy is pretty overrated offensively, because of his streaky hitting as you said

 

I think if you compare Hardy to his peers at SS, you will see why he's valued so highly both on offense & defense.

Exactly!

[804Sox]

Well, I'm on-board with you on that one. I think Hardy is pretty overrated offensively, because of his streaky hitting as you said

 

I think if you compare Hardy to his peers at SS, you will see why he's valued so highly both on offense & defense.

Yeah, but from what I've been reading, he's no Adam Heether . . .

[jvrocksaz]

Well, I'm on-board with you on that one. I think Hardy is pretty overrated offensively, because of his streaky hitting as you said

 

I think if you compare Hardy to his peers at SS, you will see why he's valued so highly both on offense & defense.

Yeah, but from what I've been reading, he's no Adam Heether . . .

I don't think anyone here has compared Heether to Hardy (or Escobar)... It has been more a conversation about his value to the Brewers in case they were to trade one of the two... Some posters have made the comparison with Heether and McGehee... Personally I would MUCH rather have Matt Cain then Buchholz... Just my opinion though!

[PrinceEatMeat]

Well, I'm on-board with you on that one. I think Hardy is pretty overrated offensively, because of his streaky hitting as you said

 

I think if you compare Hardy to his peers at SS, you will see why he's valued so highly both on offense & defense.

Yeah, but from what I've been reading, he's no Adam Heether . . .

I don't think anyone here has compared Heether to Hardy (or Escobar)... It has been more a conversation about his value to the Brewers in case they were to trade one of the two... Some posters have made the comparison with Heether and McGehee... Personally I would MUCH rather have Matt Cain then Buchholz... Just my opinion though!

Well, I think anyone would take a guy who is 7-1 with a 2.27 ERA over a guy in AAA. I don't see Cain going anywhere, especially with the kind of season he's having. Even if he were dealt, it would take A LOT more than J.J. Hardy. Like Prince Fielder for instance.

[twobrewers]

The Brewers will not trade JJ Hardy during the season unless they fall out of contention.

 

After the season, the only way Hardy lands us Buchholz if if Hardy ends up with a .270 average and 20+ HR while Buchholz gets a call up and struggles again.

 

How about we wait until after the season and trade JJ Hardy for Ellsbury - seems like a much better match.

[TheCrew07]

How about we wait until after the season and trade JJ Hardy for Ellsbury - seems like a much better match.

Err why? He's a decent player, but why would we trade hitting for more hitting, and why would Boston want to make that deal? Who's going to play CF for them? Baldelli? An aging Kotsay?

[TheCrew]

I think some people are putting a pretty high value on Buchholz - Sox would do this deal in a heartbeat if the brewers were looking to deal, but they aren't.

 

Buchholz does have a no hitter - while it's great he has one, it doesn't mean he'll be successful in the long term (Anibal Sanchez threw one but hasn't done much since). Buchholz also went 2-9 last year with a 6.75 ERA. Sure, he is a top prospect - but he is not a sure thing and isn't on the level of say a David Price or Tommy Hanson (which some would have you think). With the depth the sox have they wouldn't hesitate to trade a top pitching prospect for a proven MLB allstar if he filled a need.

 

If he was that good - the sox wouldn't have signed Smoltz and Penny this past offseason.