JJ Hardy for Clay Buchholz?

[jvrocksaz]

Simply put - the Brewers need Escobar because they can't afford to pay JJ Hardy.

 

Escobar at $400,000 a year > Hardy at $8,000,000 a year.

 

With our younger players reaching arbitration (Weeks, Hart, Bush etc) we need to save money - SS is the obvious solution.

It amazes me that Heether doesn't even get mentioned as a possible option... At some point we are all going to have to take notice of what he is and has been doing at Nashville!

[JJHardy7]

It amazes me that Heether doesn't even get mentioned as a possible option... At some point we are all going to have to take notice of what he is and has been doing at Nashville!

 

Escobar has much higher ceiling than Heether. I like Heether too, but the reason he doesn't get mentioned is because he's most likely not the long-term answer at SS. Heether's biggest plus is he can play anywhere. I'd like to see him get a shot in the bigs on the bench, but that might be next year. Again, this isn't a knock on Heether it is just hard to project guys that have been in the minors for awhile. I really do hope Heether gets a shot, but I'd guys Escobar and the hurricane would be called up before he is if injuries and/or trades happen.

[endaround]

Heether up and McGehee down. There really is no reason to think McGehee will outperform Heether at this point and its not like McGehee is some young prospect.

[trwi7]

Escobar has much higher ceiling than Heether.

I think we all understand that, but if we decided to trade Escobar in return for a young ace or something (I realize Escobar isn't going to fetch that on his own) then Heether becomes a pretty good option assuming we can't keep Hardy and assuming Heether is a decent defender.

[Invader3K]

Heether up and McGehee down. There really is no reason to think McGehee will outperform Heether at this point and its not like McGehee is some young prospect.

 

McGehee has been playing fine in his limited usage. Why send him down now?

[endaround]

He really hasn't. A .265/.321/.327 line isn't very good and even more its right in line with his projections. Heether looks to be a significant upgrade. Counsell is going to stop hitting at some point and the Brewers need another decent option.

[gobrew23]

But, to be fair, from the start of the season until May 22nd McGehee had a .167/.200/.167 line.

 

Since then he has put up a line of .323/.389/.419

 

So, pretty much since Weeks went down and McGehee was asked to play more regularly he has done a good job. While I realize he will most likely not keep at his recent pace, I see no reason to assume that Heether would be a significant upgrade and that he should be sent down at this point.

[BrewPackBuck]

I know this is a bit off topic but looking at the last couple pages with arguments on certain players sides I just sit in awe about how good the Brewers have done with getting young talent and replenishing it.

 

The Brewers graduated Braun, Fielder, Hardy, Weeks, Gallardo, Parra, Hart, Villanueva. Thats quite a bit of prospects so you would assume that the Brewers might be a bit low on up and coming prospects. Well we now have Gamel, Escobar, Salome, Lucroy as some of the top prospects up in the higher minor leagues. Along with some good prospects like Cain, Green, Brantley, Heether, Irribarren and so forth.

 

Its just awesome we have guys to replace the guys though 1B may be a hole soon. Anyways thats my rant.

 

Also I wouldnt mind trading Hardy if we where getting a couple high end pitchers that are close to being ready. That would really help us in a big way imo.

[BrewPackBuck]

. I would like to look up Hardy's minor league numbers vs. Escobar's and see where they stack up aside from home runs. I'd like to look at their averages, hits, stolen bases, doubles, etc.

 

Escobar in Huntsville at 22 - .328/.363/.434 8 hrs, 76 rbi, 34 sb, 31/82 BB/SO - 131 games

 

Hardy in Huntsville at 20 - .279/.368/.428 12 hrs, 62 rbi, 6 sb, 58/54 BB/SO - 114 games

 

I think thats the best you can do to try and get a glimsp of how they performed, JJ was up in Milwaukee by 22.

[logan82]

BrewPackBuck wrote:

The Brewers graduated Braun, Fielder, Hardy, Weeks, Gallardo, Parra, Hart, Villanueva.

Sorry to nitpick, but Villy was acquired in trade and isn't technically one of our guys even though he played some in the minors for us.

[ILuvDaBush]

We picked him up when he was in A-Ball. I think we can take credit for cultivating him. As for all this talk about who the Brewers' franchise player would be to team with Braun on a long term deal, what about the guy who has been his constant nemesis for best player in the organization since he was drafted? I'm of course talking about Dave Bush. YOVANI!!!! Why is this kid not signed???

 

As for JJ for Clay and the questions regarding the BoSox's plans for next year, it's not as if Hardy is without trade value. Howitzer arm, steady glove, ideal #2 hitter. You're right. Straight off the scrap heap. Dime-a-baker's-dozen.

[yoshii8]

BrewPackBuck, sorry to nitpick but Escobar was only 21 in his full AA year, he is 22 this season.

[twobrewers]

Heether has very limited playing time at SS.

 

I assume he can play SS - but it much more likely a 2B or 3B.

 

With that in mind, I really don't think he is relevant to this conversation. (Unless you get back into endaround talking about McGehee - which was still off-topic)

[jvrocksaz]

Heether has very limited playing time at SS.

 

I assume he can play SS - but it much more likely a 2B or 3B.

 

With that in mind, I really don't think he is relevant to this conversation. (Unless you get back into endaround talking about McGehee - which was still off-topic)

I agree with endaround... Adam Heether is a great option!!! :-)

[twobrewers]

The Boston Globe has an article talking about the Red Sox and JJ Hardy.

 

There are also a few quotes from Doug Melvin. This is the most pertinent information...

 

He wouldn't comment on whether he's engaged in talks with the Red Sox on shortstop J.J. Hardy; he did concede that his Triple A shortstop, 22-year-old Alcides Escobar, is ready for the big leagues, but, he said, "We have a very good shortstop."

 

There is also a little talk about Clay Buchholz. They interview one "major league evaluator" and basically ask - "Would you trade Clay Buchholz for Player X"

 

Both Corey Hart and JJ Hardy received a "No" vote...

[brewjihad]

Quite the answers from the scout:

 

Adrian Gonzalez: Yes.

 

Victor Martinez: Yes.

 

Nick Johnson: No.

 

Adam Dunn; No.

 

Miguel Tejada: No.

 

J.J. Hardy: No.

 

Corey Hart: No.

 

Jhonny Peralta: No.

 

Brad Hawpe: Maybe.

 

I would probably only say yes to Hardy and Gonzalez. I would have answered "absolutely not ever under any circumstances" to Brad Hawpe.

[Hate those Rodents]

When considering Melvin's comments there in relation to what he has said in the past before players were traded by him, one almost would think Doug is angling for this very trade (Hardy for Buchholz). He admits Escobar is ready now? I figured there'd be something less forward coming from his mouth. If he truly believes Escobar is ready and can get Buchholz for Hardy, I am pretty sure this is a deal that will get done soon.

[Invader3K]

Do folks here consider Buchholz a fair return for Hardy at this point? I'm honestly curious. I don't know, personally.

[endaround]

It would be a good return however it would make the Brewers worse right now.

[Invader3K]

After checking out his current stats at Pawtucket, I think it might be worth rolling the dice on this guy. I guess it's gut check time on whether or not Escobar is the Brewers' shortstop of the future or not, assuming there is anything to these rumors at all.

[Hate those Rodents]

I am not sure I agree with that End. I respect the heck out of your posts and you could be right though. But I am not adamant either way on which team would be better....Hardy and the current starting five or Escobar with Buchholtz added to the starting five. I guess it's more risk but I think it is potentially much more reward even this season. The uncertainty is what will lead many posters here to not want to do this during the season and possibly Doug as well. However, there is no way that you can get Buchholtz for Hardy after the season, or anyone with near his potential. So if Melvin thinks he can get enough "bat" out of Escobar starting now (or if he thinks Hardy might have a middling type of season at the plate) this move should definitely be made.

 

Edited to add that I hope Hardy is not kept simply because Melvin thinks attendance-wise that he is a fan favorite. While he is, I truly believe our fanbase even outside of this site is much more in tune with baseball knowledge than many other fans attending games for other MLB clubs. I think enough would realize that Escobar is going to be good himself and that you need to get a starter like CB when you have that opportunity (if we have that opportunity).

[southpaw121505]

I agree with Endaround, I think Buccholz helps the staff now but I think he helps less than the offensive hit from Hardy to Escobar. With that said I'm a huge Escobar guy and I'd do that trade because even if we take a slight hit overall this year I think the next 3 years were looking good with Yo and Clay and with Gamel and Escobar settled in.

[BrewPackBuck]

Im curious, since I didnt really start seriously follow the Brewers around the 2005 season, was JJ Hardy regarded as a home run threat when being picked and coming up through the Minors? I know he has had some decent home run years in the minors but was he considered a player to hit 20 homeruns? Thanks for any insight that is given.

[Hate those Rodents]

I think he was seen as a 15 HR guy that topped at about 25 max. Turns out that he was able to reach the 25 right away. I doubt he surpasses 25 again, though he may reach that number again. I believe the 15-25 range is something that he'll hit pretty regularly.

[TheCrew07]

No Hardy was not drafted as a power threat, he was drafted as a slick fielding SS but many teams were looking at him as a possible pitcher as well. After his High Desert stint national publications started to talk about power potential and he's gotten a little bit better every year. He was never projected to be a 25 HR guy at the MLB level, he's just worked hard in the weight room to get himself where he is.