Alcides Escobar

[Teatoe993]

Turnbow was once an All Star. He sucked shortly after.

[WisconsinSportsRule]

Not only would we be downgrading overall at shortstop

 

We don't know if that would be the case. Most likely yes, but if Alcides steals 15+ bases or so in that time and bats .240 we could have a better player. We all know about the argument about defense and who's more likely better..etc

[RyDogg66]

Last season, which was Hardy's best, he posted a .603 and .701 OPS in April and May, with 2 HRs. In 2007 he had a June and July OPS of .685 and .558. I would say that an April and May ops of .509 and .888 are in line with him being streaky. I think he will end up with about a .280 average and 20 HRs when it is all said and done.

[Hate those Rodents]

I will take that bet all day Ry, not saying you'll be wrong for certain. But I will put even money on that an a lot of it.

[TooLiveBrew]

But I'd put "above average shortstop" JJ Hardy as opposed to "All Star shortstop" JJ Hardy when talking about the guy.

 

I think that when you compare him against other SS over the past few seasons, you find that "above average" is not a good descriptor for Hardy. "All-Star SS" is kind of an arbitrary term (much like "GG defender"), since there are a lot of factors not related to talent that go into those selections... and to get technical it's saying a player is one of the top 2 or 3 SS in his league in any given season.

 

So while I agree that perhaps "All-Star SS" isn't the right way to describe J.J., I think you're selling him short in going with "above average".

 

 

if Alcides steals 15+ bases or so in that time and bats .240 we could have a better player. We all know about the argument about defense and who's more likely better..etc

 

My main concern right now is that I don't believe that Escobar would be a net improvement over Hardy for the rest of this season. I think that one of Escobar/Weeks/Hardy will be dealt this coming offseason, and my money is on J.J.

[logan82]

We don't know if that would be the case. Most likely yes, but if Alcides steals 15+ bases or so in that time and bats .240 we could have a better player. We all know about the argument about defense and who's more likely better..etc

 

The problem is that if Escobar bats .240, he isn't likely to have a good OBP. He doesn't walk much. JJ at .240 is better than Escobar at .240. Stolen bases matter very little in a player's overall. They need to steal at a 70%+ rate and get over 20 SB to make much of an impact.

[WisconsinSportsRule]

We don't know if that would be the case. Most likely yes, but if Alcides steals 15+ bases or so in that time and bats .240 we could have a better player. We all know about the argument about defense and who's more likely better..etc

 

The problem is that if Escobar bats .240, he isn't likely to have a good OBP. He doesn't walk much. JJ at .240 is better than Escobar at .240. Stolen bases matter very little in a player's overall. They need to steal at a 70%+ rate and get over 20 SB to make much of an impact.

 

While true that stolen bases aren't usually a big factor in making a big impact, if he could get on before Brauny or Prince (I don't know if Macha would bat him that high) he could ignite the offense quite a bit. Of course, JJ could ignite the offense just as quickly with power. I just think that the difference between a starting pitcher over Parra would be bigger than Hardy over Escobar. The only thing that I dislike about JJ is his speed. I hate the double plays before our big hitters get up to bat.

[logan82]

I just think that the difference between a starting pitcher over Parra would be bigger than Hardy over Escobar

 

I would agree with that if I thought what Hardy and Parra have done to this point is where their true talent level is. However, I think both have grossly underperformed this year and will play better from this point forward so I disagree.

[TooLiveBrew]

*Preface/Disclaimer: I have never seen Alcides Escobar in person, whether playing a game, or just walking on the street/standing around.*

 

 

Was anyone else struck with how similar to Escobar (in terms of physique/build) CWS's Alexei Ramirez is? I kept just seeing Escobar each time Ramirez dug into the batter's box. First, I'd like those who have seen Alcides in person to weigh in if they agree/disagree with that physical comparison. Fwiw, Ramirez is listed at 6'3, 185 at baseballreference.com. I don't think they do a good job of keeping height/weight listings current, though. He looked like he'd have a hard time hitting 180 lbs. dripping wet by my crude guesstimate.

 

Second, I'd like to just point to Ramirez as someone that defies expectations in terms of HR hitting and a wiry frame. I realize he's struggled this season, but Ramirez tallied 21 HR last season in just over 500 PA in 2008. As purely a physical observation, I think he's a nice Exhibit A counter-example of 'why should anyone expect a wiry athlete to develop any HR power?' -- which is definitely something I've been guilty of holding against Escobar. When you stop to break down a 20-HR season you realize it's 'only' averaging 3 or 4 HR per month, and I don't think that's something that Escobar won't necessarily be able to do in the future.

 

Now, who knows, perhaps those more familiar with both players will be able to provide ample evidence that Escobar doesn't compare favorably to Ramirez beyond the physical (iirc Ramirez is also regarded as an elite defender at SS). However, seeing Ramirez in the flesh (well, on TV) this past weekend was a bit like getting a glimpse into the future of what Escobar's physique will allow him to become. Ramirez seems to be a contact-fueled offensive player, with exceptional athleticism & defensive abilities. Escobar actually appears to be a better basestealer.

[BrewCrewForever]

I can see the physique comparison with Escobar and Ramirez. I know I heard people before compare Ramirez with Soriano. All three are fairly similar in body type.

[TheCrew07]

TLB that was sort of my point about him, he hit 9 HRs last season as a friggen twig... 6' 1", 180... there's no guarantee that he cares about developing a power game, but he certainly has the frame to support 205-210 LBs comfortably and it shouldn't effect the rest of his game if he strength trains properly. He's a very exciting 4 tool prospect, and the neat thing about him is that he has a realistic chance to be a 5 tool player at his peak, but he's going to have to work at it like Hardy like did, he's probably not going to get there through natural growth. I'm just not sure he'll ever be a selective enough hitter to reach that top tier of players, but the SS position is the least of my worries for the next 7 or 8 years.