Is the Steroid Era really over? Implications possibly Huge in New Bust!

[lcbj68c]

In the bordering county to my northeast, Polk County, FL.... Sheriff's officials have busted up a huge steroid ring yesterday. The suspect has already implicated the Washington Nationals as having players who are "clients" of his. Just when I thought baseball was clean, this really raises my eyebrows. What can baseball do at this point? Everybody pee in a cup every week and if you are caught, your team forfeits games? I think I would be all for that. I want clean baseball.

 

http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2009/5/27/477398.html?title=Report:+Steroid+operation+sold+to+pro+athletes

[Ennder]

Well they would have to find tests for the steroids that don't have them pretty much or they could just ignore steroids like basketball and football do and hope people just stop talking about it.

[TooLiveBrew]

Just when I thought baseball was clean, this really raises my eyebrows

 

Honestly I think baseball is nowhere close to being clean.

 

 

What can baseball do at this point?

 

Take more of the players' money. The reason guys abuse PEDs is to make more money, so take more of it away when they're busted. I'd also like to see a two-strikes & you're out policy. I'm 100% tired of the [crap] about, 'Oh, I didn't know what was in my supplement!' Instead of it being MLB's job to check out every lame-o excuse that accompanies these failed tests & resulting suspensions, the responsibility needs to be shifted much more onto the players.

 

 

Everybody pee in a cup every week and if you are caught, your team forfeits games? I think I would be all for that. I want clean baseball.

 

I want that too, man. Trouble is that there will always be drugs out there that are ahead of the tests, but I won't for one second try to pretend that MLB has ever done or is doing everything in its power to bring the abuse of PEDs to an end. We will continue to see guys get busted, and the offenders will continue to come from all points of the talent spectrum. MLB has a serious, serious drug culture, and at this point guys have built entire careers off of it. There's just no reasonable expectation that any abusers are going to stop now. Imo they have to be caught & forced to stop... and the only language most of these guys seem to understand is money

[MadScientist]

TooLiveBrew wrote:

 

Everybody pee in a cup every week and if you are caught, your team forfeits games? I think I would be all for that. I want clean baseball.

 

I want that too, man. Trouble is that there will always be drugs out there that are ahead of the tests

Just use the new detection method:

Tank McNamara - steroids

 

On a side note, perhaps the Nats being on the juice will convince others that steroids don't work http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

 

[Thurston Fluff]

I think testing will end up doing as much harm as it does good. It was a good starting point and I am in favor of it but it cannot be counted on to stand alone. The problem I see with it is while some have been caught from testing it gives baseball an excuse not to investigate thoroughly to find cheating players and organizations. It is partially teams that would prefer to have the production that may be tempted to turn a blind eye. That aspect has to be stopped as well. that can't be slowed unless there is some mechanism in place to find teams that knowingly look the other way as well as find those using undetectable PEDs.

If testing was done in combination with investigating allegations of abuse it would increase the risk of getting caught. At this point any player who had used steroids prior to testing should certainly be suspected of using ones they know are undetectable. I don't think testing for them stops cheaters from wanting to cheat. At best it makes it harder to cheat but even that is debatable. The incentive to stop cheaters need would be getting caught in a probe not a cup full of pee. You can't make the handing over of syringes and supplies undetectable even if it can't be found in a lab. Unless of course nobody is looking for the guys with the syringes and supplies.

[eanelson4]

What can baseball do at this point?

 

I'm all for the lifetime ban. 50 games seemed harsh when there was no ban previously (or it was something stupid like 10 games), but I don't think it's enough. If they really want to get rid of steroids in baseball, they will throw a lifetime ban out there. That might make guys think a little harder about it what they put in their bodies.

[NYChez]

If 70% of the players were using 5 years ago, 60% use today. I still think most players think of the testing and other anti-PED methods as being a joke. Congress will likely step in and force increased penalties - perhaps a 2-year ban instead of a 50-game ban. Maybe they should just bring every MLB player in front of Congress and ask if they're a PED user. If a player says no and then gets caught, then they go to prison.

 

I was listening to Jim Rome today and he said Manny Ramirez is on track to get enough votes to start in the all-star game. Perhaps fans just don't care. I don't care about the practice except to the extent I fear a key Brewer getting caught.

[RU Rah Rah]

I think the Nats involved should ask for refunds from this guy.

[Schlitz001]

What can baseball do at this point?

 

I'm all for the lifetime ban.

How about it? The first time you are caught you are banned from professional baseball forever. Include blood tests and the abillity to go back and retest old samples once new testing methods are found for previously undetectable substances. Why even mess around?

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

I would go a step further. Lifetime ban, substances are checked annually as new tests are available and in addition

 

First time a major league player gets caught/banned, the team is fined $1 million dollars, must forfeit 10 wins, and loses its first round draft pick.

Each offense further, the penalty to the team increases. 2nd offense, $2 million, forfeit 10 wins, loses two first round picks, etc

 

Time to make the players AND owners accountable.

[snyttri]

Time to make the players AND owners accountable.

 

Good point. The owners are unlikely to institute a fine on themselves, but penalizing clubs based on PED users could help change the culture. PEDs might not have become so prevalent without a lot of looking the other way.

[bani1717]

So if the last guy off the bench on a team gets caught, that team should forfeit 10 wins? Yeah, drug use is a serious issue that I in no way condone, but that kind of a penalty, to me, destroys the integrity of the game just like drug use does in the first place.

 

The one thing I do like about that is that the player, the owner, and the player's teammates and coaches all have a stake in not having anyone on the team use PEDs. However, even if everyone in the world encourages a guy to not use drugs (except of course the supplier), a player will still use drugs if he feels he has nothing or very little to lose and much to gain. There isn't a really easy and fair way to punish others besides the user.

 

Personally, I think that regardless of the rules, guys that want to use PEDs will find a way to do that with a good chance of not ever getting caught. Like TooLiveBrew said, the only language these guys understand is money, so I think the best way to lessen drugs is to make it so that the expected costs of using drugs (ie fines/lost salary) far outweigh the expected benefits (salary increases).

 

As far as testing players' old samples for drugs that are only recently detectable, the only real effect it has is to tell people that MLB is serious about the issue. But I think you undoubtedly have to worry about laying down the rules for the future before you worry about testing old samplesa again.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

I think the Nats involved should ask for refunds from this guy.

 

The profits must be a lot higher on the placebos.

[mothershipconnection]

One possible way to really hit players hard would be amending the CBA to include a clause that contracts can be voided any time between the first day of the suspension and first day of free agency if you test positive. That would make struggling players or those who are well-paid less likely to take them. That, or a player who tests positive can sign for no more than 80% of the rate he made that year for the following 3 years. This lets guys return to baseball, but unable to land a huge deal for inflated numbers.

[PeaveyFury]

How about it? The first time you are caught you are banned from professional baseball forever. Include blood tests and the abillity to go back and retest old samples once new testing methods are found for previously undetectable substances. Why even mess around?

 

I agree completely- put real fear into these guys.

 

And if you want to punish the team, I'd think losing even a decent player forever with no compensation is a heck of a deterrent there as well.

[JoeHova]

How about it? The first time you are caught you are banned from professional baseball forever. Include blood tests and the abillity to go back and retest old samples once new testing methods are found for previously undetectable substances. Why even mess around?

 

Yeah. Plus, they should be put in a pillory so gawking rabble can pelt them with refuse. That'd teach them.

[craigharmann]

I agree with the lifetime ban. Pete Rose got the ban for betting on baseball. No second chances there. Is steroids any better? I don't think so. Otherwise, you're never going to have the game completely clean.

[joepepsi]

Interesting there is a google ad at the top of this page for HGH.

[Tbadder]

Why not just go the other way? Institute a steroid requirement. Have the players get shot up on a daily basis. If anyone refuses they are banned for life. Oh...and lets make it the really heinous steroids--you know, the ones that will ensure their deaths by 50 years old. Then I'd pay them a lot of money--and you know what? At that point they'd deserve it. Then I'd make sure I'd follow their story, filming them at different times of their demise. Current major leaguers would be required to watch these archives--of course we'd pay them bonuses for staying awake. Heck we could pay Scott Boras clients double. Come to think of it, in the spirit of equality, we should force owners and agents to shoot up on a daily basis. It would certainly level the playing field.

[bullox]

Interesting there is a google ad at the top of this page for HGH.

There are ads here?

[joepepsi]

Interesting there is a google ad at the top of this page for HGH.

There are ads here?

That took care of it. Thanks!

[Invader3K]

My guess is we'll still be seeing the ramifications of steroids and other PEDs for a long time to come. I would assume you'll gradually see stricter measures put in place by MLB. Eventually anyone who risks taking a banned substance will risk an automatic banning from MLB for life. It won't happen overnight, though.

[CheezWizHed]

Well they would have to find tests for the steroids that don't have them pretty much or they could just ignore steroids like basketball and football do and hope people just stop talking about it.

If football ignored steriods, Tony Mandarich would have been a better draft pick than Barry Sanders. None of us would know what a Whizz-anator is. The Williams "brothers" wouldn't be in court suing the NFL because they didn't know what was in their supplement.

 

I'm not really keen on an immediate life-time ban. On the second or third offense, sure. But first time is pretty harsh. No wiggle room there for honest mistakes.

 

I like the salary limitations idea. Hit them where it hurts! The wallet.

 

And I'm really not on board with unlimited past re-testing. My reasoning is that if someone invents some supplement that is later banned, at what point can they be tested and failed? If someone tests positive for a substance that isn't banned until a year later, what do you do with that? Take away any records that person had? Kick him out? Lots of difficult grey areas to cover at that point.

[bani1717]

The way I understood the retesting of past samples is that you could retest for drugs that were banned at the time the samples were taken but that just weren't detectable at the time. You're not retesting for additional substances - only for illegal substances that could not be detected based on the technology at the time. Maybe I am misunderstanding it though.

[drezdn]

I think there should be a punishment for teams or possibly coaches. It just seems that there are certain coaches whose players have more connections to steroids than others. For coaches and teams have the punishment increase dramatically with each additional player that tests positive. The first player that tests positive on the team causes a fine of say $50,000 and 5-10 game suspension for the coach. The second one $250,000 and 25 games.