Jason Kendall thread

[naivin]

logan3825[/b]]Studies on catcher ERA show that catchers matter very little.

I guess I would be interested to see exactly what those studies show. Frankly, I have hard time believing there are reasonable enough samples out there to ween any sort of meaningful data. I would assume that within a season most pitchers throw to the same guy 75% of the time or more. That may change from season to season, but how reasonable a comparison would that be? I guess I'm satisfied taking the pitcher's word for it.

[Ennder]

Catcher ERA is a lot like clutch, it might exist but over the sample that is all of major league baseball it really is negligible for the most part. You have a few players who fall out of the normal range but the number of players who do are small enough that it could easily just be statistical noise and not anything significant.

[JJHardy7]

Catcher ERA is a lot like clutch, it might exist but over the sample that is all of major league baseball it really is negligible for the most part. You have a few players who fall out of the normal range but the number of players who do are small enough that it could easily just be statistical noise and not anything significant.

 

I guess I somewhat see what you're saying, but I'd have to think there would be some information that would say it is a huge deal or it's not in terms of who is catching. Maybe comparing pitchers to catchers and their ERA? I know the current staff on the Brewers hasn't been on the Brewers all that long, but how do they compare with other catchers? Guys like Suppan, Looper, maybe Bush, etc might be good choices to look at. I don't know how much impact it would be on bullpen guys. I do agree with you Ennder that it could be 'clutch' at some point...but if you take guys who have been around with a team for a year or two with the same catchers compared to others the guy has been with you might find something. With guys like Yo and Manny you're not going to find anything at this point IMO.

[JoeHova]

Did anybody else hear during the broadcast tonight that Kendall's 3 year old niece is apparently a hardcore Brewer fan? She was getting so frustrated with her uncle's 46 OPS+ that she tried to kneecap him with an aluminum bat.

[RU Rah Rah]

It is just far easier to hide/overcome if your RF isn't hitting .220, and you have a lead off hitter.

Yeah, if it were just a matter of Kendall lurking in the 8 hole, I don't think it would be that big of a deal. But it seems that the Brewers now have questionable bats at C, 3B, 2B, and RF. Throw in the pitcher's spot, and on any given night you have 5 spots in the order that just aren't very threatening.

[naivin]

if you take guys who have been around with a team for a year or two with the same catchers compared to others the guy has been with you might find something.

Different teams, different ball parks, different seasons, another year older, injuries, etc. I guess I have a hard time beleiving you isolate enough data to could come up with anything even close to valid.

 

If you had a situation for instance where Kendall caught half the games, and Rivera caught the other half within the same season, or couple of seasons, then I would say you could potentially get something meaningful from it. Beyond that though, I'm not sure how you could compare what Looper did throwing to Molina as a Cardinal last year, to what he is doing throwing to Kendall as a Brewer this year, for example. I guess the point there being, if a pitcher(s) say that having Kendall catching has helped, I am gonna put a lot more stock in that than anything the numbers might say.

[joepepsi]

It obviously doesn't matter to Dave Bush that Rivera is his target. Rivera needs to be catching once every 3 game series. Whether it's with an "assigned" pitcher or just random won't matter much. This present system is ludicrous.

[naivin]

It obviously doesn't matter to Dave Bush that Rivera is his target. Rivera needs to be catching once every 3 game series. Whether it's with an "assigned" pitcher or just random won't matter much.

You know that, how?

 

I am all for Rivera getting a few more AB's. Seems logical to me to generally use him with the more vetran guys like Looper and Suppan and stick with Kendall for Gallardo and Parra. Then agian, based on what we have seen and read, maybe it is the more veteran gusy asking to have Kendall catch them.

[JJHardy7]

If you had a situation for instance where Kendall caught half the games, and Rivera caught the other half within the same season, or couple of seasons, then I would say you could potentially get something meaningful from it. Beyond that though, I'm not sure how you could compare what Looper did throwing to Molina as a Cardinal last year, to what he is doing throwing to Kendall as a Brewer this year, for example. I guess the point there being, if a pitcher(s) say that having Kendall catching has helped, I am gonna put a lot more stock in that than anything the numbers might say.

 

The data might be tricky, but I don't think it'd be all that difficult to compare pitchers Kendall has worked with when he was there and when he wasn't there. I still get the feeling despite what pitchers think about him that it doesn't make all that much of a difference. I would imagine it's more of a comfort thing than anything else. If it was a mjor difference, catchers like Kendall would be in very high demand.

[pretendastronaut]

Did anybody else hear during the broadcast tonight that Kendall's 3 year old niece is apparently a hardcore Brewer fan? She was getting so frustrated with her uncle's 46 OPS+ that she tried to kneecap him with an aluminum bat.

 

On the radio Uecker and Provus were talking about it and said he got hit in the eye, which was black and blue.

[Ennder]

I did read a study that showed the second year with a catcher tends to see an improvement over the first season, so that certainly suggests that the catcher matters. I also saw one study that found that umpires call strikes different for young pitchers to the tune of over .5 runs per game which is why it always seems like Parra and Gallardo can't get a strike called on the corners.

 

I think the catcher defense probably matters more than his game calling though.

[JohnBriggs12]

The White Sox just upgraded their backup catching position (by trading for Ramon Castro) because as Ozzie Guillen said "we got to keep A.J. (Pierzyski) in the best shape we can get."

 

Pierzynski is 2 1/2 years younger than Kendall who'll be 35 in June. The fact is there have not been many 35 year old catchers in baseball history that are effective everyday players. I remember Del Crandall, who was a perenial All Star for the Braves. Crandall was typical. He posted a .765 OPS at age 32. The next year at age 33 he dropped to .502.

 

The Brewers cannot ignore the fact that Kendall is an aging player at a position that is physically demanding. His offensive dropoff since his peak years is dramatic. He needs a minimum of 2 days rest per week.

[bklynbrewcrew]

The Brewers cant continue to ignore that Kendall may very well be the worst starting offensively player in baseball and Rivera at least has a chance with a bat in his hand.

[joepepsi]

It obviously doesn't matter to Dave Bush that Rivera is his target.

You know that, how?

Just basing it on the fact Bush is pitching fine this year with Rivera as his catcher. Throw out his terrible relief appearance on Opening Day and his

ERA is 4.16; last year it was 4.18.

[madrx]

Have reasons for Kendall's decline been identified? I'm assuming it is a loss of physical skills due to age and wear and tear of catching so much. Is there any reason to believe he might produce better results with more off days or is the possible improvement of using an alternative player just avoiding some poor atbats?

 

It also seems like game calling should not be used a way to determine value. Scouting reports should be better today than ever before with the video scouting and statistical data available, but it often seems like baseball teams don't use this as well as teams in other sports. Obviously, there are more variables in batter/pitcher interactions than some match-ups in other sports. Anecdotally, it seems like every time we play the Cubs a low fastball is called in a favorable count against Soriano and he hits it a mile. It seems like it is a rare pitcher (like Greg Maddux) who has both the game plan and control to effectively use the information in game situations.

[endaround]

Kendall's never been the same since his ankle injury

[JoeHova]

I thought that it was a thumb or wrist injury (can't remember which) that the Pirates had him play through in 2001, not the ankle injury in 1999, that ruined his career. He never hit for any power after that, although he did hit for a good average in 2003 and 2004.

[fuzzmeister]

I think Kendall is finished. While he is decent defensively, he offers absolutely nothing offensively. I would give up a little defense to have someone in there that can hit the ball out of the infield.

[Ennder]

I think we need more time to really know how much of it is a slump and how much of it is another year of age. He certainly is not a good hitter no matter what but if he hits like last year overall his defense can still bring some value. If he slips much more he really shouldn't be starting again next year.

[logan82]

I think Kendall is finished. While he is decent defensively, he offers absolutely nothing offensively. I would give up a little defense to have someone in there that can hit the ball out of the infield.

I think most people think this. The problem is, who in the organization would be that replacement?

[DonMoney4Mgr]

I don't want to see Kendall back next year at age 36 with no offense and diminishing defensive skills. Hopefully, Salome finishes the year strong and is given the chance to start with Rivera backing up and catching maybe one third of the games.

[TooLiveBrew]

On the Marlins' FS-Marlins broadcast just now, the announcers commented that they asked Kendall about how he got the black eye. They related that he (after a joking response of "bar fight") told them it was from a bat -- a long swing that got him while he was catching.

 

Is it really, really strange to anyone else that he'd fib about this? Imo it was kind of a cute/harmless story.

 

 

EDIT: I'd also appreciate it if someone could share a link on the Kendall-niece story

[bklynbrewcrew]

Is Kendalls defense so incredibly awesome that we can accept an OPS below 600? Melvin made a huge mistake not going out and getting a viable offensive catcher for this team. I really hope that we dont bring him back next year. I think Benji Molina is a free agent and he can probably be had for a one year deal with an option. Our offense is just not good enough where we can allow an automatic out at any position, even catcher.

[kramnoj]

Melvin made a huge mistake not going out and getting a viable offensive catcher for this team.

 

Who would that be?

 

It's easy to criticize Melvin for not doing what we want. It's much more difficult to actually come up with real solutions.

[RightFieldCoder]

Melvin went and traded for the offensive upgrade in Estrada.

 

There really aren't any answers to be found at C unless you seriously overpay. We might have to go back to the years of Moeller/Osik/etc. Except we already have their offense in Kendall.