ANY chance Ben Sheets rejoins the team?

[Invader3K]

I think a lot of fans were just frustrated because you couldn't write better irony...Sheets pitched great for the majority of the year, but when the team really could have used him, he was unavailable, due to being hurt. Maybe not his fault, but a lot of fans probably just felt him being hurt again was fairly predictable.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I was as frustrated as anybody with all Sheets' injuries, but I just felt that it was right to give him an ovation for his time with the Brewers. Geoff Jenkins played horrible in his last year with the Brewers, but still got a standing ovation in his last game. Sheets deserved the same.

[Invader3K]

I agree. But the difference was that Sheets was pitching in a game with potentially the first playoff appearance for the team in 26 years on the line, where as Jenkins' last game was a pretty meaningless season ender. Different expectations.

[rluzinski]

Yes, Sheets deserved all the crap he got from our well educated fans. Even before he had his string of injuries, he was one of the best starters in the league and many Brewer fans didn't even like him. He didn't "know how to win", after all. Then, when he starts getting injured, it's obviously because he doesn't have a 6 pack, like every other pitcher in the league.

 

It seems like I can't get through a whole game anymore without our wonderful fan base booing a Brewer at least once. It makes me want to go to less games.

[JJHardy7]

Yes, Sheets deserved all the crap he got from our well educated fans. Even before he had his string of injuries, he was one of the best starters in the league and many Brewer fans didn't even like him. He didn't "know how to win", after all. Then, when he starts getting injured, it's obviously because he doesn't have a 6 pack, like every other pitcher in the league.

 

Oh come on. He sure knew how to 'get hurt'. I don't agree with the booing, but it's pretty easy to see why some teams were frustrated with him. Milwaukee hates Michael Redd because what he's paid and he's only been hurt twice. They hate Sheets big time because he's paid a ton and got hurt. That's the bottom line. Give him a 6 pack or 100 lbs more of weight. Whatever the reason he simply couldn't stay healthy. I'm happy we don't have all the threads defending Sheets health. If it was such a non-issue, he'd be signed by now. Teams don't want to give up picks for him because they know he's a liability. I've stated before the dude doesn't keep himself in shape and I stand by that. He's had enough injuries now that he either has no luck or he doesn't take care of himself. There is no other answer to that. rluzinski, you usually back your thoughts up with stats and such, but your point here isn't right. Fans loved him before his injuries. I was at his huge game against the Braves in '03. They loved him. He was the golden boy. A golden boy that gets hurt for whatever reason and strange reason and is one of the highest paid players on the team will be knocked by the fans. I don't think he should be booed, but no doubt there should be questions around him. We can all sit here and say 'well based on his innings and based on this he was worth his contract'...the problem is teams don't sign guys planning on them getting hurt. Going from an ace to a #6 pitcher takes more stats or logic than that...it goes from competing to sucking.

[brewblue1]

I think he genuinely hates the Brewers now, for whatever reasons.

 

Huh. The feeling is mutual. Guess I'm the only one who's glad that glass jawed loser is gone.

[TooLiveBrew]

Just about, yes. It's funny to me that even with him not on the team, people still find ways to rip Sheets.

[saget]

Yes brewblue1, you are the only one who's glad he's gone.

[brains and braun]

I'm definitely not glad. And Russ is right on about his early years with the Brewers. If he's with the Yankees or a contender during that stretch, he racks up 20 wins more than once and people would paint him in a different light. Not to mention, what is the full story behind his injuries? Maybe he feels like the Brewers turned their back on him after trotting him out and exacerbating his injury situation?

[Invader3K]

It seems like I can't get through a whole game anymore without our wonderful fan base booing a Brewer at least once. It makes me want to go to less games.

 

Maybe you came up with your own answer right there. I can understand you loved Sheets and were frustrated when people criticized him, but any baseball fan base would have taken a player to similar task for being injured often like he was. Just because a player is good doesn't make them immune from criticism of their shortcomings.

[phxMILWfan]

We will all see players differently than some other people do. If you're a fan of a player, without realizing it, you tend to make excuses for them or see them through rose colored glasses. I know I always have for a former Packer quarterback. It's hard to hear criticism of a player you are a big fan of and seeing them for what they are is even harder. I loved watching Sheets pitch. I always got excited when it was his turn in the rotation. It would have been nice for him to get a standing ovation on his way out or better yet return to the team. The reality of it is simple though. He was worth too much to other teams and not worth whatever price it would take for us to re-sign him. Take his name away look at the stats and the more important missed starts and it just doesn't add up to being a wise decision to sign him. Add in the hurt feelings all around and there just doesn't seem to be a chance of him coming back. I'm okay with that. I hope he ends up pitching for the Rangers and goes on to have a nice career.

[JJHardy7]

For the record, I'm not saying Sheets was bad. He was a very good pitcher when on the mound. I never booed him and I think that is pretty weak, but I could understand why some (including myself) were frustrated with him. Now if he made say $5 million a year it probably would be different with the fan base...same probably could go for Suppan right now. The more money the more expectations the fans have.

 

I really wish we could know the 'full story' between Sheets and the Brewers. My guess is that at the end of last year Sheets knew he was hurt towards the end and the Brewers knew it too...they just didn't know how severe it was.

[kramnoj]

Guess I'm the only one who's glad that glass jawed loser is gone.

 

Your hatred is clouding your memory. Sheets is a winner.

[mkm13]

Lets not make Sheets a victim because he was injured or bood. The guy was paid 10+ million a year for playing a sport. If he can't perform year after year because of injury he can expect to be bood. That is just part of the game.

[rluzinski]

Fans are free to like or dislike any player they want. It's a personal preference. But to get angry AT a professional athlete for injuries is childish, IMO.

 

And I see plenty of fat players all over the league, especially pitchers. I see plenty of perfectly fit players getting hurt all the time. Assuming that Sheets could have reduced or eliminated his injuries had he been in better shape is quite the assumption, IMO. Inner ear problems? Finger injury? Come on now. The muscle injuries perhaps, but who the heck knows. Anecdotely, I don't see a huge, obviously correlation.

 

It just seems like a convenient way to justify ripping into Sheets for something he probably had little or no control over. I think people are better off just sticking with the argument, "It's my right to boo!" than trying to rationalize their emotional venting. Just say you do it because it makes you feel better. At least it's the truth.

[Invader3K]

As has been pointed out to you time and time again, sports are an emotional outlet for many people. Expecting fans just to be emotionless robots who only cheer when they're supposed to and never boo and athlete for any reason is just being unrealistic. You have to realize that. Fans of any team are going to boo when a player under performs or gets hurt a lot. Yeah, it might not be "classy" but fans aren't always going to think about that in the heat of the moment, during a game.

[PeaveyFury]

For the love of God, please don't turn this into another 'it's my right to boo/no, it's classless' thread....

[mkm13]

The problem with Sheets is that he really was not an athlete. Other than his great right arm which carried him in baseball, IMO he didn't have any sort of ability to do any sport past high school.

I have never bood Sheets in my life but I will be the 1st to say I couldn't wait until his contract was up and he was out of town. A team with a small payroll like the Brewers can not afford to have a guy who is paid that much be hurt constantly. It also bothers me when I see a professional athlete take care of their body less than I do when my work does not require me to be a great athlete.

[mothershipconnection]

I'm happy we don't have all the threads defending Sheets health. If it was such a non-issue, he'd be signed by now. Teams don't want to give up picks for him because they know he's a liability.

 

Of course health is an issue, the guy had arm surgery, so I'm completely unsure who you're arguing with here.

 

Sheets will cost a first round pick AND may not pitch all year, definitely not until after he doesn't cost a pick to sign AND is going to want a short contract to regain value, which all add up to him being unsigned.

[PeaveyFury]

The problem with Sheets is that he really was not an athlete. Other than his great right arm which carried him in baseball, IMO he didn't have any sort of ability to do any sport past high school.

 

Yeah, but you can say that about a ton of baseball players, or really players in any sport in general. They typically have one skill set that lets them excel in a particular sport, while floundering in most others.

[JJHardy7]

Of course health is an issue, the guy had arm surgery, so I'm completely unsure who you're arguing with here.

 

Sheets will cost a first round pick AND may not pitch all year, definitely not until after he doesn't cost a pick to sign AND is going to want a short contract to regain value, which all add up to him being unsigned.

 

It goes back to those that have defended Sheets saying he's not injury prone and it was all luck. I don't see how Sheets isn't injury prone. Even with his injury now he would've been signed by some team. I get the feeling though that the contracts offered (and I have to believe there have been at least a few teams offering a contract knowing they'd give up a second round pick or later), but Sheets probably wants $15 million a year and teams are most likely offered much, much less than that. Why? Because IMO he's injury prone. He's not going to get a huge contract.

 

My point is if it's not 'fair' to get upset about his injuries and he's not injury prone...is it all just bad luck? Conditioning doesn't play a factor at all? I guess I don't buy that. He's either injury prone for whatever reason or he doesn't take care of himself. IMO it's one of the two.

[rluzinski]

I'm reluctant to sign any starting pitcher long term, whether they look in great shape, like Cappy always did, or not great shape, like Sheets and CC do. There is just a lot of risk for injury. And at this point, Sheets certailnly has a higher probably of injury becuase of his injury history and the number of innings he's already logged. For the right price, I'd sign any talented pitcher to a 1 or 2 year deal, though. I just wouldn't pay them at a level that assumed 200 IP/year.

[Oldcity]

I have never bood Sheets in my life but I will be the 1st to say I couldn't wait until his contract was up and he was out of town. A team with a small payroll like the Brewers can not afford to have a guy who is paid that much be hurt constantly.

 

Another common misconception is that Ben Sheets was overpaid or didn't earn his contract. He was actually very underpaid. How many of the booing Brewer fans would admit that? This value is according to fangraphs. 2005 Salary 6 mil, Value 12.7 mil 2006 Salary 9.6 mil, Value 14.7 mil 2007 Salary 11.1, Value 9.4 2008 Salary 12.1, Value 20.6

[southpaw121505]

Assuming that Sheets could have reduced or eliminated his injuries had he been in better shape is quite the assumption, IMO. Inner ear problems? Finger injury? Come on now. The muscle injuries perhaps, but who the heck knows. Anecdotely, I don't see a huge, obviously correlation.

It's not an assumption. Why do any players work their tails off in the off-season then? Every body is different and you are right, some guys in great shape get hurt and some injuries are fluke injuries. But, when you're paid that much money it is your responsibility to be in top condition to give yourself the best chance of avoiding those injuries, that's why guys work out, that's why pitchers run so much.

[TheCrew07]

The problem with Sheets is that he really was not an athlete. Other than his great right arm which carried him in baseball, IMO he didn't have any sort of ability to do any sport past high school.

 

Yeah, but you can say that about a ton of baseball players, or really players in any sport in general. They typically have one skill set that lets them excel in a particular sport, while floundering in most others.

Most players look like athletes when running... I've watched 300+ LB NFL lineman look very nimble on their feet in various drills, Sheets moved awkwardly off the mound, didn't matter if it was at the plate or running the bases... and running the bases would be a pretty liberal assessment of him out there. He's a very good pitcher, but injury prone, and a poor athlete by MLB standards.

 

I'm not sure another sport where you wouldn't see fluid movement from athletes... maybe golfers if they tried to run? While some are certainly good athletes, I'm not sure that would be the case top to bottom. Standing in one spot to ply your trade isn't really what athletes do in general.