Starting to see what Kendall was saying about Macha

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

I hear what you guys are saying and I certainly don't want Macha to act like a buffoon like Ned, but if there was ever a time to let a little emotion show, it was last night. The ump made the correct call, the other manager went nuts )acting far more animated than our guy) and got the call changed and Macha was still not happy with the call after the game...all this while we are about to get swept in convincing fashion. I like Macha, he is a big upgrade at manager and his calm demeanor is part of that...all great points. I guess if there was ever one of those few times one would let it loose...last night would have been my choice. Maybe you guys are right and the players don't need that stuff. They all seemed fine as they apparently put down a beer for Cam after the game.

[TooLiveBrew]

I really don't think that call was as clear-cut as you're saying... imo it was just a tough call.

 

 

The ump made the correct call, the other manager went nuts )acting far more animated than our guy

 

To be fair, I understood Gardenhire losing his mind a bit since he could point to a tangible injury/bruise on his guy's hand right then & there. All Macha had to go on was that the call was changed -- and it could well have been changed to the correct ruling.

[logan82]

I think Macha is fine in this case. Argue a call once in a while. State your case and get off the field. I think that is what Macha did. You are not going to get a call changed in most cases. All you can do is influence future calls. The only time a coach should argue to the point of getting tossed is to protect his own players from getting tossed. Even then, just going out and taking the heat off your player should be enough.

[bani1717]

Looked to me on the replays as though the ball did hit his hand. That said, even if it did, if I'm Macha then I am pissed about the changed call. Just because they come out and show you a bruise doesn't mean that bruise wasn't there before. (Judging by the way he reacted, it seemed to me as though it was clear the bruise did just occur, but seeing as I have never played baseball since like first grade t-ball, I'm not sure whether it may hurt if the ball does just hit the knob of the bat right below your hand.)

 

On another note, I don't know which announcer it was, but one of them said that if he was a Brewers player he would ask Macha after the game why he didn't get tossed for the team. That, to me, seems like a dumb comment, because if the players expect the manager to get tossed and know situations in which he should, then the idea of getting tossed to fire up your team is kind of pointless, isn't it?

[wildbobu]

Wasn't that Steve Phillips who said that about asking why Macha didn't get tossed? So doesn't that ruin the statement from the get go? I'm not sure how Phillips got that job or who he has photos of but I would not be suprised if Orel ever got arrested for assualting him. And I do believe it was Phillips who also said that if Mauer got hurt all of America would be sad.

[Never Outhustled]

I'm very happy Macha didn't go nuts just because his team meet a hot club for 1 series. That would seem like a panic move Ned Yost would make. The players control their own destinies.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Apparently, not, Xcellence. The umpire controlled the destiny of that game.

[Bruce Ciskie]

As bad a call as I thought it was, and as much as I advocate a manager sticking up for his players, I think Macha popping off to the reporters is going to say more than him getting ejected from a game his team was just not likely to win ... no matter what.

 

I love Gardenhire, but it's not like he has a long string of championships on his resume. The fiery demeanor isn't always a good thing, either, as he's found himself tossed from games he never should have been tossed from because he couldn't control his temper.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

I just don't get how some mark on Mauer's hand proved his case. It's not like Nippy Jones shoe polish in the '57 World Series. If the ball hit the knob of the bat and then hit his hand isn't that a foul ball? Macha's response aside it certainly was a tough call, but I don't get why the evidence was so overwhelming that Gardenhire's hissy fit got the call changed.

[TooLiveBrew]

The umpire controlled the destiny of that game.

 

Umpire & grand slamming slugger Justin Morneau?

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Would that grand slam have occurred had the umpire not gave Joe Mauer 1st base as a pity gift? That sure sounds like someone (The Umpires) controlling a destiny to me. I think I need to go watch the movie Butterfly Effect again. Good flick.

[chuckiehacks]

But if the ump calls the pitch in question a foul ball and then Stetter gives Mauer the pitch he served up to Morneau it's still going a long way. I think there are very rare occasions when you can blame a loss on an umpire. This was not one of them.

[Thurston Fluff]

But if the ump calls the pitch in question a foul ball and then Stetter gives Mauer the pitch he served up to Morneau it's still going a long way

 

If Stetter was going to throw that exact same pitch in the exact same circumstance then maybe we could expect a similar outcome. He did not have Mauer in the same circumstance as he had Morneau so I don't think he would have thrown the same pitch. Even if he did there is no way to know Mauer wold have done the same thing with it. It is never good for an ump to reverse a call unless there is clear and irrefutable proof he was wrong. I think in this case there was some question whether the hand or bat was hit first. In that type of circumstance the ump should have stuck with the original call regardless of how right or worng it turned out to be. That said less than Stellar play by the Brewers was more to blame than one call by one ump.

[bani1717]

My theory is that you can only say the umpire controlled the destiny if your team plays a perfect, mistake-free game and gets screwed on a bad call. Seeing as that will never happen, an umpire's call(s) may factor into a game but will surely not be the only thing that affects a game.

 

Also, using the argument "Would that grand slam have occurred had the umpire not gave Joe Mauer 1st base as a pity gift?", I could say that the reversed call wouldn't have occurred if Stetter had controlled his pitch better and not let it get close to Mauer. It's just not a good argument, because you can keep going back to every single play in the whole game and say, "If that would (or wouldn't) have happened, then the whole outcome would have been different." The fact of the matter is that you have to play the hand you're dealt, and whether the call ended up being right or wrong and whether it should have been changed or not, we got completely outplayed for the rest of that game and for the rest of the weekend.

 

Having said all that, there is no way I thought the umpire should have changed his call in that situation. What I think happened is that he doubted his original call right from the start. However, you can't just change your mind on the field for no apparent reason at all, so he let things play out. Then, when Gardenhire showed him the bruise, he decided he had enough evidence and a good enough reason to overturn the call that he doubted in the first place. I know he doubted it in the first place because if he didn't, he would not have changed the call. (And I'm not saying that it's bad that the ump doubted his call, because it was a tough angle. I'm saying it's bad that he let everyone see that he doubted his call.)

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

A "mistake-free game"? Please define that. To me that seems impossible and I don't think it's been done in Major League history. Even in a "Perfect Game" thrown by a pitcher, he still could and does make mistakes, but usually the fielders or batters bail them out as that kind of performance takes some luck.

[bullox]

A "mistake-free game"? Please define that. To me that seems impossible and I don't think it's been done in Major League history.

Therefore his point is that you can't blame the umpires for a loss. Ever.

[Postseason2006]

I am just curious as to know how can someone show bruising 10 seconds after the play? Nearly impossible...

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

No. I can blame the umpires at any point in the game where they affect it towards a given outcome by a blown call or a changed call from a manager hissy fit that happens 0.0000001% of the time in sports. All you have to do is play out the scenario if the umpire sticks to his call, the Brewers have a lot better chance to win that game. Umpires influence games whether you like it or not and they should be blamed and accountable for their mishaps.

[theavrock]

When I first started coaching basketball I used to complain about every call. Referees hated me and I never got a call. As I got older, I calmed down. I developed some friendships with referees. At the most I would complain about a handful of calls. I noticed that when I would complain about a travel I would get that call shortly after that, same with handchecks, etc.... My long, convoluted point is that most umpires will learn to ignore the constant complainer. When a manager picks his battles the umpire will be more likely to consider that point.

 

This was the time to argue the call. The ump made his decision and then reversed it because Gardenheir came out and argued. You can clearly see him telling Mauer to come back to the plate which causes him to get heated and show his hand. Then Gardenheir comes out and flips his lid. The ump is standing his ground and then all of a sudden he just gives in to Ron. This is ridiculous. I have never seen a call reversed by a manager going out and arguing. When that call got changed I said to my gf Macha is going to get tossed. Unless that call gets reversed again there is no way he should be leaving that field. I don't know that it has anything to do with a disconnect between player and manager but I know I as a fan was thinking what the heck. You just got hosed Macha and you are not standing up for yourself. I can only imagine what a player would be thinking. BTW I also like the fact that Macha is a cool, calm guy, but that umps call was unacceptable.

[TooLiveBrew]

Like I said before, this was not some easy call that got blown. If anything I think the ump got the call right in reversing it, and regardless of what people think, it's absolutely 100% ok for an umpire to change his call. You just usually don't see it because MLB umps are pretty dang good, and many of them have egos too big to admit the few times they are wrong.

[bani1717]

No. I can blame the umpires at any point in the game where they affect it towards a given outcome by a blown call or a changed call from a manager hissy fit that happens 0.0000001% of the time in sports. All you have to do is play out the scenario if the umpire sticks to his call, the Brewers have a lot better chance to win that game. Umpires influence games whether you like it or not and they should be blamed and accountable for their mishaps.

 

I said that umpires can factor into games - they just aren't the only influence on games. The original statement that "The umpire controlled the destiny of that game" makes it sound as though the umpire and only the umpire controlled the destiny of the game. Maybe I'm just reading into it too much though. I just think that to blame an umpire for a loss is completely foolish - the players are far more to blame than an umpire. I can name about 30 players and coaches whom I can blame the loss on too. Basically, I guess I feel it is more of a "team" thing - to blame a loss on any one person (a manager, a player, or an umpire) isn't totally accurate IMHO.

 

And I do believe that umpires should be held accountable for their mistakes. However, there never has been a game called completely perfectly, nor will there ever be. Plain and simple. Umpires make mistakes like everyone else. To expect a perfect game out of an umpire is unreasonable, just as it is unreasonable to expect a player to be perfect and mistake-free. I believe that umpires, like players, need to work to get better at what they do.

Also, I agree with you TooLiveBrew - I have no problem with the end call, I just didn't like the way in which it was reversed.

 

[Baldkin]

The ghost of Nippy Jones comes back and haunts the Brewers in Minneapolis.