Phillies - prime trading partner?

[alwz4gbp]

I was watching a little bit of the Phillies/Redsox yesterday. The announcers were saying that the Phillies are in desperate need of a solid back up catcher. That being said, again the phillies look like a prime trading partner. Send Miller to them for whatever we can get. Rivera proved to be a very servicable back up last year and not that Closser has cleared waivers, that gives us even more versatility at that position. Maybe include Mench and actually get a servicable player in return or at least a good minor league prospect. That'd clear about $6M in salary making it easier for Melvin to add some salary after the break. It would also clear two roster spots which would allow us to maybe keep Rottino and his versatility. I would think however that Gwynn almost has to be included in any deal. If they are set on keeping Hall in center, that give TGJ no hope of cracking our roster for any meaningful playing time.

 

 

(please use subjects that sum up the post -TC)

[dadofandrew]

After you weaken the backup catcher spot and the OF, you might well need to add some major league depth.

 

After the way injuries devastated the '06 version, you'd think more folks would have some respect for depth.

[MNBrew]

Just a thought, not sure if I like it....

 

Mench & Miller for Lieber & a B+ prospect

 

salaries of Mench & Miller would about = Lieber, bullpen would be theoretically strengthened, OF glut thinned a little

[Invader3K]

I wouldn't trade any of our catchers for "whatever we can get". They're too valuable right now. The Brewers have possibly the best depth at catcher in the entire NL. I have no doubt one of our catchers will be traded before the end of the season, but it will be for something the Brewers actually need, not just to dump a player.

[Brian the Automator]

I really do think he has a point... We have an overload of outfielders and a very serviceable, durable backup catcher that will likely be lost on waivers. I think with Closser in AAA, there's still plenty of depth to go around... especially if the Brewers can swing something they need more in 2007 (like a bullpen arm).

[paul253]

After the way injuries devastated the '06 version, you'd think more folks would have some respect for depth.

 

thats true but how much depth do you need? we have 6 outfielders right now, not including Gwynn (who can at least play the position without being in over his head). We have 4 catchers, plus Rottino who can fill in on an emergency basis. I dont think it'd be the end of the world if Mench and Miller/Rivera get traded, especially for a decent reliever, which they could really use right now.

[Invader3K]

OK, in that case I could get on board...maybe Rivera/Mench for a solid bullpen arm.

[dadofandrew]

I have no problem improving weaker areas of the team by trading Mench and Rivera, I just don't see the benefit in giving them away for nothing, or nearly nothing.

[splitterpfj]

I don't think Gwynn's going anywhere....watch this, next year he'll be starting in LF and batting leadoff.

 

I can't wait for the reaction on this board.

[dadofandrew]

Splitter, that would not surprise me that much at all. If he goes to Nashville and hits .300, has an OBP around .400, and plays defense the way he is capable of, I bet he'll be starting somewhere in '08. I said the same thing as you, only I put him in CF, back in January or so.

 

Needless to say, however, that's a bit of a big if, to say the least.

[splitterpfj]

The only reason I said LF is, Melvin has said several times that he stuck Hall in CF right now because he doesn't want to move him twice.

 

I know the team doesn't want to leave Weeks at leadoff for the longterm, Gwynn at least has a chance to become that guy, so I'm betting they'd either stick him in LF, or pursue next year's version of Dave Roberts for the same spot.

[MNBrew]

Somewhere in here an important point seems to have gotten lost, and it's this:

 

If the Brewers try to put Rivera through waivers, chances would seem pretty good that they'd lose him for nothing, all in an effort to get him down to AAA. But Rivera can't get to AAA without going through waivers or being released, and in either event, he's fair game for anyone, and he's likely to take an offer to be on someone's 25-man roster.

 

Mench + Miller keeps Rivera and about equals Lieber's salary. Mench + Rivera doesn't. Damian Miller broke down badly (bat & health) in the 2nd half last year. Good backup catchers are a valuable commodity (see: last winter's FA signings).

 

Not that I think this is the perfect idea, but the logic seemed sound, which is why I threw it out there. The bullpen has plenty of questions and Lieber could fill the savvy veteran role. No significant payroll increase. Eases present numbers crunches at two positions. And the bonus is that we now have another proven contingency option in case Sheets or another SP gets hurt.

[splitterpfj]

Haven't the Phils pulled Lieber off the market, pending Garcia's status?

[JohnBriggs12]

The Phillies need for a backup catcher is, in my opinion based on the fact that the nomimal starter Rod Barajas is in the bottom tier of starting catchers, and they would want a backup who would play at least a third of the time.

 

That's why a proven commodity like Miller would be more attractive in a deal.

 

The Brewers are in a different position. Estrada's going to catch 80% of the time. Rivera, backed up by Closser, gives them enough protection for the other 20%.

[dadofandrew]

Estrada will not catch in 130 games, which is 80%. I would guess about 67% of the time, maybe more if Closser/Rivera backs him up.

[alwz4gbp]

The reason I chose to include Miller instead of Rivera is that Miller is clearly near the end of the line and almost certainly will not be back next year. If thats the case, then you have Rivera to take over the back up duties for at least a few years if Melvin choses to keep him. I think if you trade Rivera, then you put The Crew in a bind for a back up next year, assuming Miller is not retained. If you trade Rivera this year and lose/let go Miller next year, then we've gone from a position of strength to a position of weakness within one calander year. All I'm saying is keep the guys who are going to be here long term and not worry about a guy who is essentially on a one year contract. Does this clarify my position and make sense?

[MoneyballMan]

ESPN (Atl/Phil game) actually just talking about the Phillies adding some "thump" in the OF and that Lieber is most-mentioned as being available (except the did hedge by pointing out the Freddy Garcia situation). So far, the Brewers haven't come up in their conversation about possible deals.

[sbrylski]

We still want Lieber?

[bando1234]

We really dont match up with the Phillies all that well. I think we would have to look at a 3 way trade to get anything don with them. Just one that pops up in my mind would be

 

Phillies get:

Mench

Miller

 

Padres get:

Rowand

minor leaguer

 

Brewers get:

Branyan

Royce Ring

 

Just a thought but I believe the Padres were interested in Rowand & the Phillies in Mench. Branyan at least would fit at 3rd with Graffy until Braun is ready.Ring has always had potential as a closer in the minors but was also tough on lefties in the minors.

[Past Member]

I think the Phillies would be a prime trading partner because they are in the market for relievers and Derrick Turnbow just has to go, add to it that we could send Jenkins/Mench as well....But the only thing the Phillies could offer in return that could help the Brewers would be Abraham Nunez to play third, but thats no good. Id say you could move the two guys I mention, easily, to the Indians for Casey Blake and a prospect.

[wallus]

Quote:

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Id say you could move the two guys I mention, easily, to the Indians for Casey Blake and a prospect.

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Where would Blake play? The outfield players are better than him. (assuming you keep the platoon). He could play 3rd potentially but he hasn't for a while and Braun is in the wings. I don't see how this helps us.

[Past Member]

Id play him at third. He is a Bill Hall type of jack of all trades kind of player. Its possible that Braun's arm never develops to where they want it for him to play third and he becomes another outfielder. Blake at least has experience playing 3rd in the Majors. Plus he has a decent bat, which is more than you can say for Graffanino or Counsell, and better yet, you get to dump Turnbow.

[Dogger192003]

Bando and Braydo said it best. The Phillies not only need a backup catcher but their bull pen is brutal. With one of Aquino or Capellan most likely not making the team and Turnbow back in the good graces of baseball people we have a luxury of ML relievers and catchers. The problem is what do the Phillies have to offer. Maybe after they start the season and the bullpen blows a few games there will be more pressure to make a trade and DM can raise the price.

[TooLiveBrew]

For what though? Aaron Rowand? Jimmy Rollins? Wes Helms? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

 

We don't exactly have room to add another SP, our pen is solid as is -- and any depletion of it would be unwise, pardon the pun. I know we can target a prospect or some nuggets, but it'd probably take more than a backup C & a Pen arm (which I don't think we have the luxury to part with anyway)

[Dogger192003]

I was thinking corner outfield prospect. I have no idea who the Phillies prospects are, just speculating. Maybe if things implode with the philly bullpen they may part with a prospect to get a bullpen arm. I use the word luxury lightly here as it is always nice to have the depth. I agree though a backup catcher and relief pitcher are not worth anything we need right now.