Macha pulls a Yost

[PrinceEatMeat]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/45571882.html

 

Terrible reason to stick with Hall against the righty tonight. As a manager, you always go with your best chance to win the game.

[topper09er]

I agree 100%, I was pretty mad Hall was hitting with Baun on deck. Although I dont think it cost us the game, its not very likely Cousell would get on and Braun gets an extra base hit, it did take away any chance of winning.

[Brewer Fever]

This second guessing is bullcrap. We can't keep second guessing each an every move. Take last night for instance. He pulled Bush after only 80 some pitches. Now what would have been the Yost move? Leave him in until he implodes, right? The bottom line is sometimes the best move is the move you don't make, sometimes it's pulling the trigger before disaster. We can't predict the future. All we can do is look at the record. If we look at the record and say to ourselves that we can't imagine being much better than the record stands, then the manager must be doing allright. We're 25-15 folks!

 

So who thinks we should be 28-12? What's that, no one? That's what I thought.

 

As soon as I saw the Journal article I knew this thread was coming. Very disappointing that this inevitable topic couldn't be spared from BFan.net.

[diener34]

On the flip side though, are we going to give Macha a pass based on the fact that he isn't Ned Yost?

 

I mean very few people pulled punches when it came criticizing Yost, but now we can't second guess a Macha decision because the team is 25-15? To me, it seems Macha recognized the correct move, but purposely went against it to keep a promise to a player. I don't agree with it, at all.

 

However, I do like Macha and he is doing a great job this season and the team is really playing great for him, but I don't agree with your sentiment that "This second guessing is bullcrap". It's only second guessing right now because it already happened, I am sure there are many fans (Including myself) who were scratching their heads when Hall stepped in the box. It was a bad move in many peoples opinion and will be dissected. With the good comes the bad.

[moofnelson]

What, second-guessing a managerial decision has been banned on this site? What fun is watching sports if you can't questions choices made by coaches?

 

 

Macha should have chosen Counsell to bat in that spot because:

 

a) He has better plate discipline than Hall.

b) He hits RHP better than Hall ever will.

c) It gave the Brewers the best chance to get one of the better hitters in baseball a chance to bat with two runners on

 

Macha should have chosen Hall to bat in that spot because:

 

a) He bet someone before the game that Hall would strike out four times.

[bucks2281]

As soon as I saw the Journal article I knew this thread was coming. Very disappointing that this inevitable topic couldn't be spared from BFan.net.

 

Why so disappointing? Sure, I approve of the job Macha has done thus far, but it doesn't seem fair that we can't discuss a mistake just because we're 25-15. IMO, in-game management discussions have been among the most interesting, insightful, and entertaining threads on bf.net.

[uwisfan]

first off, I've been a huge yost basher.. dressing down pitchers on the mound, terrible decisions and his antics seemed to have the whole team on edge, not to mention a seemingly impossible low IQ. He put that on himself with his continued feebleness over a long period of time. You just knew you could count on him to blow games.

 

I did question Macha tonight as it happened, but Macha has done so many things right for this team, he has a ton of rope to hang himself with. He's still feeling this team out. It's felt so good to have anyone but Yost out there, and Macha has earned my trust and then some.

[owbc]

I generally trust Macha, but it is still important to discuss his questionable moves of late. Gallardo didn't pitch well on essentially 10 days rest. Several starters have been removed lately with < 90 pitches. Tonight's move was exactly what the title says it is--a typical Yost decision. We all knew Bill Hall was going to strike out, there was a viable option on the bench, and Macha went with Hall anyway.

 

It doesn't matter if they were on a 7 game winning streak or losing streak. It still counts for 1/162 and the Brewers missed an opportunity to get Braun up with a chance to tie the game/take the lead.

[pretendastronaut]

You know, I'm surprised that I'm saying this, but if that was the discussion Macha had with Hall, I'm okay with him giving Hall the chance and sticking to his word. The pressure was on for Billy there, and unfortunately it didn't work out.

[orca1963]

I would have to agree with astronaut. Macha's job is first and foremost to win, but part of that means managing egos, clubhouse, etc. This was a way to put the onus on Bill Hall and ensure that in the future should he pinch hit for him, Billy would be hard-pressed to argue it. Bill has done a lot for us and deserved the shot. I would be very suprised if he were given the same chance again however.

As to the argument about whether or not this forum is a good place to nit-pick a manager's descision, the answer is yes. I read this forum but comment rarely because most of what I think of is already said. I would hate to see it become nothing more than BF cheerleader forum.

[trwi7]

Several starters have been removed lately with < 90 pitches.

 

This isn't a legit criticism. At all. Only seven times this year has a starter been removed before they've hit 90 pitches. Bush in his start yesterday (or two days ago, however you want to look at it.), but that wasn't a bad decision, he had gone six innings and he put a couple of guys on base and was hanging pitches. He was lucky to escape damage after Blum (I think) hit a rocket right at Hart. Even Bush went into his "uh oh crouch" after he hit that.

 

Gallardo hasn't been removed once before he's hit 90 pitches. The closest he's been was this start with 94 pitches.

 

Looper has only been removed before 90 pitches once which was his bad start in Cincinnati.

 

Parra has been removed before 90 pitches twice. His bad starts against San Francisco and Philadelphia.

 

Suppan has been removed three times. His two bad starts against San Francisco and Chicago and against St. Louis on Saturday which was 89 pitches and I can sort of understand why Macha did that. He hung a few pitches that inning and without a great play from Hardy, he doesn't get out of that inning with the Brewers ahead.

 

Anyways, I agree with the majority. I don't really care if you promised the guy. He's done nothing against righties the past 2+ years. I think that's a big enough sample size. He just didn't put us in the best position to win the game. A very Yost-like move.

[dlk9s]

I think people are forgetting that there would not have been two runners on base for Braun because Counsell would have hit hit a homer to tie the game.

[alwz4gbp]

Not busting on Macha, but Counsell should have been up there at the end. I threw up in my mouth a little bit when I saw Hall steo into the box. You can't fault a guy for "playing a hunch". You never know what Macha was thinking. Can we argue with him so far?

[sbrylski]

I don't think Hall should have ever even been told he's guaranteed certain ABs. The manager should use the players as fit, and that changes day to day and week to week. No promises, because this is what happens.

[Mr QL]

Manage to win. When Billy starts consistently hitting righties is when he should get a chance against a RHP with the game on the line. Not happy about it? Use it as motivation.

 

What Macha did was very Yost-like.

[endaround]

I think people are really overestimating Counsell vs RHP because of Counsell's hot start.

 

Counsell vs RHP in 2007:.234/.337/.316

 

Counsell vs RHP in 2008: .229/.358/.308

 

Hall career vs RHP:

.247/.300/.436

[trwi7]

I think people are really overestimating Counsell vs RHP because of Counsell's hot start.

 

Counsell vs RHP in 2007:.234/.337/.316

 

Counsell vs RHP in 2008: .229/.358/.308

 

Hall career vs RHP:

.247/.300/.436

Why are you using Hall's career numbers vs righties? The last two plus years he's been brutal and he was brutal in this game as well.

[hauser42]

Macha is a man of his word and I have no issue with the move. Hall will be on the bench soon enough with his poor play once again, no Ned Yost to coddle him.

 

With Macha at the helm and a better staff under him this team is playing very well. Have wonder if he would have taken the job years ago what might have been. Melvin so far knew what this team needed from day one.

[1992casey]

This topic is in-game thread material.