Will Bill Hall ever make adjustments?

[Never Outhustled]

He should've never seen Oswalt last night.

The problem was Hall had owned Oswalt before last night.

 

 

 

Heres another problem. Who starts at 3B versus Minnesota? They have 3 RHSP slated for the series. Gamel is going to DH. That leaves Hall or MaGehee for 3B. Both are good defensive 3Bs. Hall can't hit RHP, MaGehee couldn't even hit in the minors.

 

With Hall in a slump, I'm guessing MaGehee gets the nod, both options are bad right now.

 

Do you consider Gamel at 3B with Gerut at DH (or in the field with Hart, Cameron, and Braun getting time at DH)? I'd probably go with the better defensive lineup.

[joepepsi]

Go with McGehee and Counsell tonight. I don't care who plays 2nd or 3rd. DH Gamel.

 

Saturday go with Hall at 3rd, Counsell at 2nd, Gamel, DH, Gerut in RF, Hart on the bench.

 

Sunday, Gamel at 3rd, McGehee at 2nd, Gerut in LF, Braun DH.

 

I like the idea of Cameron every day in CF in the Metrodome.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

Hitting 35 HR in 2006 was the worst thing Billy could have done to himself.

 

It may have been the worst thing for the Brewers, but since he parlayed that into a 4 year deal, I'm not sure he'd agree.

[endaround]

I think people are really. really overestimating Counsell's bat. He's a .230/.340/.300 type against RHP going forward.

[strawbossisevil]

And a .340 OBP is not all that bad. Especially if he´s hitting in a place in the order where his job is to get on base, and not drive in runs.

[kalle8]

calm down, he we'll have lasik surgery next off season...

 

it helped kendall to hit .350 the first 20 games of 2008.

 

what? no, you must be wrong, it's scheduled for the NEXT off season.

[endaround]

And a .340 OBP is not all that bad. Especially if he´s hitting in a place in the order where his job is to get on base, and not drive in runs.

 

A .300 slg is bad. There isn't a special spot in the order where power doesn't matter. And if he plays every day there's a good chance his numbers would be worse.

[Ennder]

A .300 slg is bad. There isn't a special spot in the order where power doesn't matter. And if he plays every day there's a good chance his numbers would be worse.

But will they be worse than .174/.242/.316/.557 which is what Hall hit vs RHP last year? Or maybe worse than .195/.295/.338/.633 which is what he is hitting so far this year. I don't want Counsell out there every day against RHP just because I think he'll wear down, but I'd rather have him in the lineup than Hall against righties. To be honest I'd rather have McGehee out there vs RHP too unless he proves he can't hit at the major league level.

[joepepsi]

To be honest I'd rather have McGehee out there vs RHP too unless he proves he can't hit at the major league level.

I agree. Imagine if McGehee could actually hit a bit and play 2nd and 3rd competently. I'm hopeful he can be a cheap, quality 6th infielder for the next several years. I'd like to see him out there 4 games a week at 2nd until he proves he can't play or hit.

[FVBrewerFan]

I think Gamel needs to play almost every day at 3B. Now is the best time for him to gain experience vs LHP. You don't want to find out in September. Then you platoon Cunsel and McGehee at 2B. That leaves Hall as the odd man out, and I'm not sure what you do about that. With his contract, a trade doesn't seem likely.

[3Putt]

Nate82, you seem to be ignoring facts so here are a few more you can ignore. I could almost buy your argument about triples if our sample size was small but our sample size is over 1,000 PA's since 2006. In that time Hall has 1 triple, the big man, Prince has 5 and the slow (and in your mind non-hustling) JJ Hardy has 6. Is there any sampling size you would find statistically significant? Bring facts to the table indeed.

[sheetswannabe]

Gamel to 3rd, Counsell and McGehee at 2nd. Billy back to super-sub. He doesnt deserve regular at bats right now, he looks lost.

[TooLiveBrew]

So because one guy had 4 different results (Prince's 5 triples to Billy's 1) in over 1,000 PA you can pin this down on hustle? That doesn't add up to me.

 

 

In that time Hall has 1 triple, the big man, Prince has 5 and the slow (and in your mind non-hustling) JJ Hardy has 6.

 

It's almost like... hustling has little to absolutely nothing to do with it.

[nate82]

Triples are completely luck based I don't see how it is so hard to see that. If Hall goes for a triple and he is out does that mean he was hustling too much? No it was bad base running. No hustle in the world is going to help you get a triple it is based on luck. In Miller Park there are couple spots where you can hit a triple and the outfielder has to help you out some also. One spot is in center field and you have to hit it off the corner of the wall and the second spot is where every other stadium has it and that is down the right field line. The right fielder needs to help out the base runner for a triple to occur down there though.

 

So hitting the ball off of the corner of the right center field wall is not luck based? Anywhere else at Miller Park and it is down to either the outfielder helping the base runner out or a base runner having a lot of speed. Hall is not a very fast runner and nor is he a good base runner. He never has been a good base runner and hes never been that fast. You also got Hall's triples wrong he has 5 triples since 2006. He had 4 in 2006 and 1 in 2008. It is very luck based on triples. If there wasn't a lot of luck involved in triples you would see more of them. Also you have to take into account the situation a lead off double is better than a lead off double and being thrown out at third. Also with two outs you don't want to make that third out at third base. There are a lot of things that can contribute to why Hall has only 5 triples since 2006 but hustle is not one of them.

[3Putt]

If you think the phrase "since 2006" would include 2006 then I'm wasting my time and I'll move on. Billy's the king of the stand up double. I'll say no more.

[TooLiveBrew]

Don't let facts get in your way?

[logan82]

Players don't get triples unless the fielder plays a ball poorly off the wall or dives for and misses a ball. They don't call errors on much of anything for outfielders. Triples are just as lucky as in the park home runs. Are you trying to say Fielder is the only guy who hustles wince he has 2 inside the park homeruns and there are players who had stand-up triples?

[cwolf2012]

"Will Bill Hall every make adjustments?"

 

Short answer: No.

 

Long answer: Definitely not.

[3Putt]

So I'm to believe that Hall is on a 2 1/2 year unlucky streak and that guys with comparable or less speed are 5 & 6 times luckier?

[nate82]

If you think the phrase "since 2006" would include 2006 then I'm wasting my time and I'll move on. Billy's the king of the stand up double. I'll say no more.

Since 2006 means that season all the way up to the current one. If you compare from 2006 to current you can see that Hall's triples really haven't fell off more than Fielder's or Hardy's have taken off. Now you want to see something even funnier. If you take your since 2006 Bill Hall and Albert Pujols have the exact same number of triples taking your definition of since 2006. So by your definition of how triples happen Pujols doesn't hustle? Manny Ramirez has a total of two triples "since 2006". Wow these players must be the anti hustle players and must be like Hall right? And the person everyone (well at least the media) says who hustles the most David Eckstein has exactly you guessed it one triple "since 2006" that triple came this year.

 

Do you see it now? Triples are completely luck based. Hustle has nothing to do with someone getting a triple you are believing the talking heads hype of hustle mattering. It just doesn't matter in triples you can hustle all you want but that is not going to help you get a triple. What a player needs to get a triple is the right situation for the number of outs and for the outfielder to help the player out. If you don't have Jose Reyes type of speed on the basepaths you are not going to get many triples without a lot of luck.

[mikevan1818]

Nate82, you seem to be ignoring facts so here are a few more you can ignore. I could almost buy your argument about triples if our sample size was small but our sample size is over 1,000 PA's since 2006. In that time Hall has 1 triple, the big man, Prince has 5 and the slow (and in your mind non-hustling) JJ Hardy has 6. Is there any sampling size you would find statistically significant? Bring facts to the table indeed.

 

To argue for Nate82 - i think this would have to do with the "pull-happiness" of Hall. There is almost zero chance Bill Hall is going to get a triple no matter where he hits the ball in left field. The fielder would have to make an awful play - or the ball would have to take some funky bounce. Even then - Hall probably doesn't have the speed to make it.

 

Hitting more balls to right field would give him more of a chance for a triple. The throw is much longer and a minor mishap in the field can create enough time for a triple.

 

Just because the FACT is that Hall does not have a lot of triples - does not mean it is FACT that he isn't hustling. I do not see how you can argue that triples are not MOSTLY luck for players that are not speed-demons. Sans the fast players - almost every triple I have ever seen has either 1.) a bad play in the outfield 2.) a funky bounce of a wall or stadium structure or 3.) the ball heading into some strange formation of a certain stadium (i.e. the hill in Houston). It is completely possible that Player A who hustles less than Player B of the same speed and base running ability could have numerous more triples based on nothing but luck. In fact, I would be willing to bet it happens more often than not.

[TooLiveBrew]

So I'm to believe that Hall is on a 2 1/2 year unlucky streak and that guys with comparable or less speed are 5 & 6 times luckier?

 

You could start by trying to actually prove what you're arguing ('Bill Hall never gets triples because he doesn't hustle'), instead of just mocking the evidence others are providing.

 

Besides, the fact that J.J. Hardy has any triples -- since you're referencing him as a non-hustler (yes, I know someone else said that first) -- completely destroys your theory on Hall.

[nate82]

I rest my case on hustle having very little to do with triples with Johnny Hustle errrr David Eckstein only having one triple "since 2006".

[3Putt]

I didn't state that JJ is a non-hustler. Quite the contrary I think he & Prince do hustle and Hall does not. I used triples as one way to measure hustle. I do agree that luck plays a part in triples but hustling out of the box will put you in a position to take advantage of a slight bobble, tough hop, etc whereby coasting out of the box and jogging into second will almost guarantee triples will almost never occur. Hustle will yield you a bit more distance in the same amount of time so to say hustle is irrelevent is not correct.

 

I used triples as an example of my theory that Hall does not hustle. If you don't feel triples are a valid example then I welcome you to watch Hall's home run trot on almost any ball hit anywhere near the warning track. If you're posting here I'm assuming you're also watching the games. Hall's been phoning it in since he got the big contract. His Mom seems like a very nice lady though. At least he was lucky there.

[TooLiveBrew]

I do agree that luck plays a part in triples but hustling out of the box will put you in a position to take advantage of a slight bobble, tough hop, etc whereby coasting out of the box and jogging into second will almost guarantee triples will almost never occur.

 

This is the part that you'd have to analyze to determine whether or not Hall's perceived lack of hustle is actually hurting his production. If you can do that, you might find that Hall actually has cost himself a triple or two. You might also find that he hasn't any cost himself any more or less than any other ballplayer.