Will Bill Hall ever make adjustments?

[Never Outhustled]

If Hall doesn't hit them, which he won't, then Macha won't hesitate to PH for him in the future.

 

The problem with PH is, very few players actually hit well as pinch hitters. Counsel's season totals are good because of what he's done as a starter. If he gets lots of PH ABs, his numbers will go down.

[Roderick]

Everyone goes through slumps. Hart's hitting .188/.253/.275 this month in 69 AB's. Nobody's calling for him to be benched.

Hart's issues have been since the middle of last year, not going on three years. Plus we are talking about platooning Hall, not benching him. Hart doesn't have a split versus righties that Hall has, in fact his splits show that he is doing better against righties so far this year.

 

If there was a "Gamel" behind Hart, maybe we would be hearing about Hart's slump.

[TheCrew07]

X I know you've always been on the bandwagon of the toolsy guys cause that's what your into, but we'll never see the 2006 Hall again, let alone the 2005 version.

 

He's not a bad guy, he's just not a smart or instinctive baseball player. He has all the tools but the results speak for themselves.

 

I would have batted him 5th if I was going to move him up in the order, I would have batted Hardy 2nd personally, and 1 of Cam or Hart in at the top, even though they've both been struggling. The way the Brewers have hit LHP pitching, it's very unlikely that Hall will see 4 ABs in a game against LHP, so at some point the other team is going trot out a RHP at which point Hall becomes a liability.

[Postseason2006]

I am calling for Hall to be benched even vs lefties at third. Gamel was .425/.490/.975 with an OPS of 1.465 at AAA. Let Gamel play FT Bill Hall is almost a surer out then Kendall.

[bensheeps]

Just like obsessedwithbrewcrew Bill Hall is my favorite player. I think those of us who favor Billy have a difficult time forgetting the guy who used a compact swing to pound the ball to right-center. In watching Hall during this slump it looks as though his swing has gotten long again (as it has often during the last couple of years). I'm assuming we will see a similar approach to Hall that Macha took with Hardy earlier... a couple of days off and then one more chance for Billy to get going again. Even as a big fan, I feel this may finally be Billy's last chance.

[joepepsi]

He's always been a swing at pitch hacker. I never believed the hype when he came up. So I was stunned when he put together two good years. But that was in his mid 20's. Hacktastic hackers tend to peak early and decline fast.

 

Hart might be next, but he's at least taking walks this year. He has half the walks already this year that he had in all of 2007. His obp is 86 points higher than his average. These are good signs he's at least trying to change his approach.

[burniebrewer]

Pitchers know he's trying to pull everything, so the outside corner/in the dirt curve/slider work like a charm every time. As a RHP, I don't think I would ever throw him an actual strike if I was pitching to him--everything down and away.

 

We are definitely going to be seeing more of Gamel.

[JohnBriggs12]

I am calling for Hall to be benched even vs lefties at third. Gamel was .425/.490/.975 with an OPS of 1.465 at AAA. Let Gamel play FT Bill Hall is almost a surer out then Kendall.

A week ago Hall was hitting .278/.352/.485. He's had a bad week. He's also still owed about $13 million through 2010. Look I'm all for getting Gamel in there, but Hall needs to play somewhere and given a chance to bust out of his slump. The logical place is now 2B.

[cwolf2012]

Yes, he was hitting .278/.352/.485, with about a .205/.295/.370 split against RHP. It was still plainly obvious that he can't hit RHP. This guy doesn't deserve an everyday job.

[Never Outhustled]

I am calling for Hall to be benched even vs lefties at third. Gamel was .425/.490/.975 with an OPS of 1.465 at AAA.

Hall will definately play versus lefties, maybe 2B instead of 3B. However, Gamel isn't going to be better than the 900+OPS guy Hall is versus lefties is in the majors. Gamel splits in AAA are way small sample, he's been slightly worse versus lefties than righties in his career. Even if they are both similar offensively versus lefties, Hall should still play versus them, because he has a distentive edge over gamel defensively.

 

I can understand the argument of Gamel playing fulltime because Hall should be the one platooning with Counsel at 2B, with MaGehee as a late inning defensive replacement at 3rd. However, if its going to be Counsel/MaGehee at 2B, then its gotta be Gamel/Hall at 3B.

[sargennm]

I am calling for Hall to be benched even vs lefties at third. Gamel was .425/.490/.975 with an OPS of 1.465 at AAA. Let Gamel play FT Bill Hall is almost a surer out then Kendall.

Once again this discounts Gamel's obvious liabilities on defense. If Mitch Stetter doesn't strike out Chris Duncan in that Monday night game in St. Louis, Gamel's error could've ended up costing the team that game. Gamel's got three hits in eight major league at bats. He's look good at the plate in the limited time we've seen him against ML pitching.

 

After Hall's somberoro last night, maybe tonight Gamel gets the start even with Hall's good numbers againt Oswalt. At the very least we know he will get three starts at DH in Minny and face at least one LH starter and porbably one or two out of the pen. If he shows he can handle major league lefties and that he can handle the position defensively in his spot starts, than maybe it's time to for Machel to consider Gamel at 3B full time. But let's not act like after eight major leage plate appearences our 3B WOAH SOLLVD.

[naivin]

Bottom line is we probably need a leadoff hitter. Pretty sure you wouldn't see Hall batting 2nd against a LHP or a no handed pitcher, for that matter if we had a proper lead off hitter on this team. We don't at the moment, and Macha is having to do some juggling as a result. The top couple spots could be an issue all year. Kinda like when Hoffman came back. Everyone moved down a spot into a much more appropriate role, and the bullpen was drastically improved.

[southpaw121505]

If he shows he can handle major league lefties and that he can handle the position defensively in his spot starts, than maybe it's time to for Machel to consider Gamel at 3B full time.

 

But let's not act like after eight major leage plate appearences our 3B WOAH SOLLVD.

Those two sentences are total contradictions. We shouldn't get too excited over a few ABs, but then again if he hits lefties (in a few ABs) lets play him more. I'm all for Gamel playing full time at third but they won't do that, so I'd settle for a strict platoon. Bill Hall can't hit righties, Mat Gamel can. Not sure why after years of Hall proving this we're deciding to "let him prove" he can if we have an option wasting on the bench that clearly can hit them. I'm not going to be happy if they continue to trot Hall our their vs righties while our top prospect, who plays his position and hits righties, chews seeds on the bench.

 

I agree with the original poster, it's painfully obvious he needs to go the other way with outside pitches and lay off junk. It's harder to lay off the junk when you're committing to pull it. Some of his ABs are just embarrassing.

[pebadger]

I still root very hard for Billy. Just about every time he comes up in a big sport and i'm on the in-game tread that night I post "Right field, Billy" in some insane,superstitious hope that it might make a difference. That said, after his 2nd AB last night I figured he had a less than 1-in-10 shot at even making contact. The final AB was not pretty, but almost expected at that point given how he looked in AB #2, which was worse than painful.

 

I trust Macha to handle this correctly. The one thing I do worry about is that if guys like Hart and Hall start to drift farther away from what has been a team-wide desired plate approach, it will have wider repercussions. Braun and Fielder's big improvment from the first 13 games has been the engine for the current hot streak, but other guys have made a huge difference too. Braunie seems to be cooling off just a bit (not unexpected as what he was doing was not sustainable), but the answer for the other guys is not to try to replace that every night. Just stay with the approach, draw walks if possible, drive up opposing pitch counts, look oppo and the sheer mass of hitting ability on the team will sooner or later find a way to put up enough runs to win on most nights. Hall, Hart and Cam are the three biggest threats to upset that apple cart. Cam is doing the best so far at fighting what seems to be his more 'natural' approach, and I'm sure it's not easy for any of them, as it's hard to change something that's pretty much worked for you your entire life.

[sargennm]

Those two sentences are total contradictions. We shouldn't get too excited over a few ABs, but then again if he hits lefties (in a few ABs) lets play him more. I'm all for Gamel playing full time at third but they won't do that, so I'd settle for a strict platoon. Bill Hall can't hit righties, Mat Gamel can. Not sure why after years of Hall proving this we're deciding to "let him prove" he can if we have an option wasting on the bench that clearly can hit them. I'm not going to be happy if they continue to trot Hall our their vs righties while our top prospect, who plays his position and hits righties, chews seeds on the bench.

 

I agree with the original poster, it's painfully obvious he needs to go the other way with outside pitches and lay off junk. It's harder to lay off the junk when you're committing to pull it. Some of his ABs are just embarrassing.

My point wasn't that Gamel should automatically get the full time 3B job if he proves he can hit lefties in a couple of at bats, but before its even considered let's at least see how he looks after playing in a couple consecutive games and after he actually gets some ML at abats against lefties. To me, Gamel needs to prove he can be just compotent on defense before they should even consider a full-time platoon. As I pointed out in my previous post, his ridiculous error very well could've have cost Milwaukee the game on Monday. Hall has been solid in the field thus far and does hit lefties well. Before we hand over the full-time keys to 3B, let's see a little more what Gamel can do.

[TooLiveBrew]

Gamel's 3-R HR on Monday night could have won the game for us, though -- It goes both ways, imo. And if Gamel is up, he should be up to play everyday, regardless of the pitcher. He's already proved he can handle LHP in the minors, so there should be little to no worry about playing him against lefties. Mat's not a guy the Brewers plan on platooning once he sheds the 'top prospect' label, so honestly I wish they'd stop doing it now. To clarify, I want to see the platoon at 2B (Counsell/Hall), and like Ennder mentioned let Hall spot-start against RHP.

 

I think we saw with Weeks this season that raw athletic ability can translate to good defensive value, but it can take patience. Gamel made a play against the Cards down the 3B-line on Monday that few MLB 3B can even get to, let alone hose the baserunner with a laser-beam throw to boot. When he made that play, I saw why the Brewers have stuck & continue to stick with Mat at 3B. Not only is his offensive value enhanced, but the guy has the tools & talent to be a good defender at third. Unlike the Braun experiment, Gamel actually looks to have a skillset that lends itself to playing 3B. I am confident the throwing issues/mechanics can get cleaned up. Cripes, just let Mat work with Sveum & Randolph if Weeks's results are any indication. Of course, Don Money couldn't hurt either http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

Back on-topic to Hall... Billy just is what he is. He's a lethal option v. LHP that absolutely belongs at the #2 spot (& several other places) in the lineup. He's turned himself into a very solid defensive 3B, & gives Macha just one more weapon on the 25-man roster.

[jeffy]

If there was a "Gamel" behind Hart, maybe we would be hearing about Hart's slump.

Maybe there will be, if Gamel shows that he is the equal of Braun defensively at 3b.

[logan82]

"It's just one little thing that's going to make it click. I'm trying to find it." Link

 

Well unfortunately Billy, you have been looking for over 2 years now. Sounds like Hall will be starting against Peavy as well.

 

The skipper intends to keep his word. Hall will be back in the starting lineup at third base on Thursday against Roy Oswalt. Hall is 14-for-41 with a home run in his career against the right-hander.

[3Putt]

If Hall seemed to care about improving then I'd pull for him but he's been stubborn and lazy ever since he got the big contract. His hustle stats are terrible. If I have to watch him turn triples into doubles and doubles into singles for another year I'll start the Anti-Melvin fan club. Prince & JJ at least hustle and their extra base numbers show it. Even Carlos Lee would take the time to study opposing pitchers and grab an occasional stolen base. Billy is what he is and that isn't changing.

[nate82]

If Hall seemed to care about improving then I'd pull for him but he's been stubborn and lazy ever since he got the big contract. His hustle stats are terrible. If I have to watch him turn triples into doubles and doubles into singles for another year I'll start the Anti-Melvin fan club. Prince & JJ at least hustle and their extra base numbers show it. Even Carlos Lee would take the time to study opposing pitchers and grab an occasional stolen base. Billy is what he is and that isn't changing.

Triples are nearly all luck based not really a "hustle" category. I hate that saying hustle. Seriously? If you are going to look at hustle you should be looking at Hardy when he is running down the line at 1B. Please don't talk about hustle with Hardy he does not hustle down the line and he has to be one of the slowest players on the base paths.

 

Triples are extremely luck based. Triples are not turned into doubles by the runner more times than not triples are turned into doubles by the fielder. Also doubles are turned into triples by fielders more than by the runner. There are very few players in the league that turn doubles into triples Hardy and Fielder are not those type of players.

 

Please bring facts to the table when you are going to call out a player.

[endaround]

Also triples are highly dependent on the situation. A player should never try to stretch for a triple with no outs or 2 outs.

[bobskube]

Billy with ks 7 out of 8 ABs then hits into double play.

 

I think this is a good thing long term because Macha gave him his chance and he blew it to be the third baseman.

[dadofandrew]

His DP was a hard hit ball going the other way, just bad luck.

[trwi7]

His DP was a hard hit ball going the other way, just bad luck.

 

Really? That wasn't even close to a hard hit ball.

[bobskube]

That ball was not hard hit. In fact, it was ball three.