Will Bill Hall ever make adjustments?

[sheethead]

Too bad Billy can't just party like its 2006 again. Super sub Billy - that's the role he was successful in. He has run out of leverage to whine and pout about it now. It is his destiny.

[Baldkin]

Yeah, 2006 Billy, the supersub, when he played 130 games at SS.

 

He played a bunch of positions in 2005, and 2007. But 2006 he was the Shortstop, when he had his best year.

[sheethead]

Billy didn't figure out he was the SS in 2006 until after the year was over. He was still thinking super sub. If not, he at least knew Hardy would again be the SS in 2007, and he was just a plug.

[kramnoj]

could care less what Bill Hall has to say about being benched more.

 

As a fan, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. For the people who are making decisions, they need to take Hall's feelings into account. If they thought that Hall could take a role where he is a defensive specialist and a bat off the bench against LHP, the Brewers could use him in that role, even though he would be vastly overpaid for it. But if he is going to be a malcontent, which could affect his performance, it would be better to just cut him lose and give Heether a chance, as he could provide similar performance at this point (hopefully better).

[TooLiveBrew]

Honestly it's really not possible for Hall's production to get much worse, and he was flailing even prior to seeing more time on the bench. I am not of the opinion that his psyche & potential to go from a horrible hitter to an average hitter is worth the lumps the Brewers would have to take along the way. You basically hit on what I would say next, with "it would be better to just cut him lose and give Heether a chance, as he could provide similar performance at this point (hopefully better)"

[JohnBriggs12]

For the record, Billy now has 3 hits in his last 3 AB's and still has more RBI than Milton Bradley!

 

It's been subtle, a loud foul here, a HR in Cleveland there, but there's been some signs of life lately even before his 3 straight hits.

[bklynbrewcrew]

For the record, Billy now has 3 hits in his last 3 AB's and still has more RBI than Milton Bradley!

 

It's been subtle, a loud foul here, a HR in Cleveland there, but there's been some signs of life lately even before his 3 straight hits.

I think we need to see a lot more than that before we can say that Hall is useful again.

[Invader3K]

Maybe sitting him on the bench has helped him. Sometimes guys just need a break to get out of a bad slump like Billy was in. I would still keep using him in a limited role right now, though.

[logan82]

My opinion hasn't changed. He should play against LHP and be a defensive replacement.

[JohnBriggs12]

I don't think anyone's suggesting a larger role at this point. I do sense he's through the worst of it though and he can contribute.

[logan82]

There seem to be suggestions that Hall is somehow better than he was last week though when the prevailing notion was that Hall should be DFA'd.

[naivin]

It seems to me Hall is hurting the Brewers in a couple ways. First with his bad play, and second with his pathetic contract that is going to make it extremely difficult to acquire a 2B/leadoff hitter. In an ideal world they simply wave goodbye to Billy to make some room and replace him with an everyday 2B and lead off hitter. I just don't see them eating the contract, so that seems almost impossible at this point. Counsell in particular has held down the fort nicely, but here we are at the 4th of July, and they need to get him some help soon. There are guys that would seem to be available that would likely be significant upgrades over what we can likely expect out of Counsell the rest of the year...Freddy Sanchez, Cristian Guzman, Felipe Lopez, maybe Julio Lugo. Getting those guys seems impossible as long as they have the Bill Hall albatross hanging around their necks.

 

Imagine Freddy Sanchez or Guzman leading off, with McGehee/Gamel playing 3B, and Counsell available to play all 3 IF spots. The offense would be deep and stellar.

[naivin]

Is Bill Hall the Brewers' poster boy for the steroid era?

[fondybrewfan]

Is Bill Hall the Brewers' poster boy for the steroid era?

I don't think Hall is/was a user. I just think he is a really expensive one-hit wonder that for whatever reason hasn't progressed/ad adjustments as an MLB player since his break out year. Pitchers figured him out quickly, and Hall is still working on adjustments 2+ years later.

 

Hall was rushed up to the big leagues and was signed long term because after his good 2006 season Melvin was probably eager to build up some fan support by signing a "cornerstone player". The problem of course was that Bill Hall never put up super impressive numbers in the minors and wasn't regarded as a big time prospect. In hindsight Melvin should have just gone year to year with him, but I don't think too many fans were complaining about the contract at the time because he did had a .899 OPS and a 125 OPS+ in 2006.

 

Melvin has an exceptional draft record but his decision making regarding long term deals has been questionablet although it is hard to fault him. The Sheets deal was a no brainer at the time and the Hall deal was probably pretty close to that. The Suppan deal is the only one that really stands out as being idiotic and it seems like Mark A had more to do with that signing than Melvin.

[TheCrew07]

Melvin has an exceptional draft record

small quibble, but Melvin doesn't actually draft anyone, the scouting directors run the show.

[Ennder]

Melvin has an exceptional draft record

small quibble, but Melvin doesn't actually draft anyone, the scouting directors run the show.

He has input on every player drafted, especially the players in the earlier rounds, even if they ultimately make the call as to who we draft.

[TheCrew07]

We've been through this already, it's not his draft, regardless of the input in the upper rounds... every single player? Hardly.

 

I'm not taking anything away from Melvin, he works very hard, gets out to see all the minor league teams, goes on scouting trips, and certainly has an informed opinion, but his focus is on MLB as it should be. What he does deserve credit for is hiring excellent people to evaluate talent for the team and they have maintained a consistent philosophy, which has led to a very successful farm system and good product at the MLB level.

[PeaveyFury]

I'm not taking anything away from Melvin, he works very hard, gets out to see all the minor league teams, goes on scouting trips, and certainly has an informed opinion, but his focus is on MLB as it should be. What he does deserve credit for is hiring excellent people to evaluate talent for the team and they have maintained a consistent philosophy, which has led to a very successful farm system and good product at the MLB level.

 

I think there was a very noticeable shift in the Brewers' drafting philosophy in the upper rounds from high school players to college players that happened right when Melvin took over, so I don't know if you're giving enough credit to him there.

[Ennder]

We have been through this before and I still completely disagree. You don't give the GM near enough credit for the draft. If we had a different GM our drafts would go differently without a doubt. Melvin isn't sitting on an island somewhere drinking daiquiries while the scouting department is off making all the calls. The scouting director isn't the one deciding what kind of price we are willing to pay per slot etc. The GM has significant input into the entire process.

[TheCrew07]

I'm not taking anything away from Melvin, he works very hard, gets out to see all the minor league teams, goes on scouting trips, and certainly has an informed opinion, but his focus is on MLB as it should be. What he does deserve credit for is hiring excellent people to evaluate talent for the team and they have maintained a consistent philosophy, which has led to a very successful farm system and good product at the MLB level.

 

I think there was a very noticeable shift in the Brewers' drafting philosophy in the upper rounds from high school players to college players that happened right when Melvin took over, so I don't know if you're giving enough credit to him there.

How do you figure that?

 

1st and 2nd round picks below.

 

2009 Arnett, Davis, Heckathorn, Garfield, Walla - 2 HS

2008 Lawrie, Odorizzi, Frederickson, Lintz, Dykstra - 4 HS

2007 LaPorta (no 2nd)

2006 Jeffress, Brewer - 2 HS

2005 Braun (no 2nd)

2004 Rogers, Gallardo - 2 HS

2003 Weeks, Gwynn

2002 Fielder, Murray - 2 HS

2001 Jones, Hardy - 2 HS

2000 Krynzel (no 2nd) - HS

 

Of our top prospects between AA and AAA, only 2 players (Lucroy and Gillespie) are college players. HS/DFE/Int players include Salome, Escobar, Braddock, and Cain. If memory serves me Gamel and Green were JuCo players.

 

I might be wrong about Cain, I think he played JuCo but was still drafted out of high school. Either way he wasn't a college player.

 

Objectively looking at the top 10 rounds it appears to me that the Brewers go after talent, regardless of HS or College. The stated philosophy from both Z and Seid has been to target impact talent and every pick since 2000 was an upside pick. Even Arnett isn't as polished as one might expect for a college arm, he still has significant room for growth.

 

Melvin absolutely deserves indirect credit, he's assembled a fantastic staff of talent evaluators up and down the organization, from the minors to the majors. They scout very well all the way around, in that there's no doubt. However the area scouts and cross checkers are going to know more about the draft picks than Seid or Melvin, that's just the way it works. Seid and Melvin might see a kid once or twice, the area scout has seen the kid play upwards of 10 times. This isn't like the NFL draft where you can sit in a room and pour over film for weeks, like I said he gets out on the road and does his due diligence, but he's not an expert on the kids, and while he certainly offers input, he's even said on more than one occasion he doesn't make the final decisions on who's being drafted.

 

Melvin has done many excellent things for the organization from overhauling the scouting, medical, and player development departments (though I'm not a big a fan of his boy Reid Nichols) to some excellent trades/nugget mining headlined by the Sexson deal which might be the best trade in the history of the franchise... but he's also had some stinkers. Off the top of my head extending Hall, Helms, Clark, and Turnbow didn't turn out so well, but all of those players except Hall were also retreads with limited success so there were warning signs. I've never been a fan of the Suppan signing, I've just grudinglly accepted it. I would have rather he tried to move for long-term rotation solution instead of a couple of rentals and/or hanging on to Hardy. In the end he got the franchise back to the post season which obviously meant a great deal to the fan base as a whole, and hopefully he'll be at the helm when the team wins a World Series.

 

Ennder I have a feeling this is going to go the same way as Parra, I've said what I had to say, and I have no interest in getting inovled in another circular debate that goes nowhere with you.

[Ennder]

Thats fine but just answer this one question. Assuming there is absolutely no change in the scouting department do you really think that changing GMs would not impact our draft in any way? Because that seems to be the angle you are taking here and I just completely disagree with it. He might not be making the picks but he most certainly has an impact, every GM in baseball does.

[brewmann04]

Hall deserves a Seat at the End of the Bench and should not be in the Starting Lineup Period.

[sgtcluels]

I'm a Hall apologist, but I think it's time to send him down. He has a great arm, and great defense. But his bat is worse then even Jeff Suppans. He won't be able to figure it out getting 3 ABs once a week, so it's time to send him down.

 

If he refuses assignment, so be it. If he's claimed, so be it. But Its hard to continue to root for him when he's sucking so bad.

[bobskube]

I think Hall's days of a Brewer are a ways from being over. He will probably be on team until trading deadline to see if they can make a salary dump and trade for some other failure. Unfortunately, it doesn't make total sense to just DFA him. I wish he would accept a minor league assignment, but I don't think his agent will let that fly.

[TooLiveBrew]

I apologize, as I think this may have been addressed, but if Hall denies a minor league assignment, wouldn't he forfeit his MLB contract? I know Turnbow had to cross that bridge, but for some reason I recall Hall's situation being clarified as different from Turnbow's