Weeks out for the season; Hurricane's a-comin'

[twobrewers]

I think the best option is to move Hall to 2nd to platoon with Counsell.

 

And then hope Gamel gets that bat moving right away and can stay at 3B full time. Anything else will be a HUGE drop off offensively.

[TooLiveBrew]

I say Hall won't be hidden against righties because it seems best to have Councell spell 3rd base.

 

I may draw FtJ out with this, but here goes...

 

Counsell spelling Gamel at 3B <<< Not batting Hall v. RHP

 

 

A handful of spot-starts against RHP for Hall so that Gamel can play everyday is fine by me, but the offense just took a big enough hit in losing Weeks. We don't need to compound that weakness by continuing to play Hall against righties now that there's an alternative.

[homer]

Well this sucks. That's right I said sucks.

 

I guess the bright side is that he'll be well rested for 2010.....ok that's grapsing at straws. This blows turd ferguson.

[JJHardy7]

Lawrie is unlikely to be ready to start in 2011. Again the idea that Weeks being average at 2B was this huge yoke for the Brewers to carry for a few years makes little sense.

 

I get the feeling that Lawrie will be fast tracked. I don't know if he'll be ready at the start of 2011...but I would imagine he would be up in Milwaukee at that time. I've never seen him in person, but he's again going to be one of the many Brewers that could have questions about his defense. If his defense is ready, I don't see a reason why he won't be up in 2011.

 

Again, the idea that Weeks keeps failing to put it together means the Brewers need to start looking elsewhere. I'm not saying let's trade for Brian Roberts. I am saying we need someone that can backup him up next year, but can fill in as a starter if needed. Weeks is going to be 27 in September. So next season he'll be turning 28. I was hoping this year would work out for him, but it didn't. I'm not saying he's not talented. He is very talented. He just hasn't been able to put it together because at various times he's had issues on defense, injuries, and poor at-bats (which in part might have been due to injury). Even if Weeks is average if he's not on the field it doesn't matter. On the positive thing he's not expensive so by no means am I saying we should dump him. I am saying if Lawrie tears the cover off the ball all summer and does the same next year he will have a great shot to take Rickie's job in 2011. Again, I don't know all that much about his defense...so I may not be taking that into consideration as much as I should.

 

I guess I'm not sold we'll see Rickie at the level he was at the beginning of the season again. For a guy that relies so much on his wrists to generate power, I really hope he's able to come back. I'm not against the guy by any means. I just think this injury could be hard to come back from and we've seen in the past he's been slowed by the injury well after the surgery.

[davego]

Does the 'Crew end up having to platoon (or whatever ken wants to call it) at both 2nd and 3rd with Rickie down? I trust Macha to deal with this better then Ned would have.

[brewerjamie15]

hmm. I can't seem to get fan graphs to cooperate with me. I wanted to see where Weeks stood offensively/defensively vs. other 2nd basemen in the NL and I wanted to see where he stood offensively vs. the other lead off hitters.

Is anyone able to help a brother out?

[TheCrew]

I wonder if Macha is going to start Gamel again tomorrow after the game he is having tonight...... With Gamel being able to hit lefties, it might be best to give him a shot at being the everyday 3b and move the current 3b soft platoon of Hall/Counsell to 2b.

[southpaw121505]

If Gamel can defend at a tollerable level, than we are a pretty similar team to what we were a week ago. Gamel should be similar to Weeks offensively, could be somewhat similar defensively, and we still have a Counsel/Hall platoon. We get worse defensively at 3B, but better at 2B. We finally have some balance in the starting line-up. We still don't have a big lefty bat off the bench.

 

We could be right back where we started, and thats pretty good. I feel better. Its all on Gamel's defense. I sure hope JJHardy7 is right about his progress.

Interesting way to look at it, makes sense.

 

I'm all in on Gamel being up for good now, I think he's our best shot to make up for the offense we will lose. I'm fine with Hall being half of a 2B platoon but I'm not sure Counsell can get that many ABs in the other half of the platoon. As for leadoff, why is Hart always assumed to be a better option than Cameron? Cameron's obp is about 60 points higher this year and about 15 higher for career. Not thrilled about Hart leading off at all. Career obp is .324

[Never Outhustled]

Again, the idea that Weeks keeps failing to put it together means the Brewers need to start looking elsewhere.

Weeks was on pace to be worth $29.25 million this year, per fangraphs. By comparison, CC was worth $30 milliom this year. To say Weeks was failing is as far from the truth as you could possibly be.

I just think this injury could be hard to come back from and we've seen in the past he's been slowed by the injury well after the surgery

We're over 10 months from opening day next year. Thats a huge difference from his last wrist injury. He will be 100% by the start of spring training.

[steve267268]

So, the thread title indicates that Iribarren is coming up, but nothing has been confirmed in this thread yet. Has this been confirmed yet?

[logan82]

As for leadoff, why is Hart always assumed to be a better option than Cameron? Cameron's obp is about 60 points higher this year and about 15 higher for career. Not thrilled about Hart leading off at all. Career obp is .324

 

The career stats for both are pretty misleading in this case I think. One guy is 36 and the other is 27. Hart's career stats are mostly based on 2 year. One was really good and one was really bad. I think is is safe to bet his talent is somewhere closer to his 2007 season than his 2008 season. Cameron has only a few times in his career been over .350 OBP. Mostly 6+ years ago. He may end up with a higher OBP at the end of the season than Hart, but I doubt Hart is as low or Cameron as high as their current OBP. Going forward I would expect Hart to have at least an equal OBP to Cameron.

 

I trust Macha to deal with this better then Ned would have.

 

I think overall Macha will get things right. On a game to game basis, I think Macha has some pretty flawed thinking behind his lineup decisions. Most seem to be of the "well Counsell is 11 for 18 against this guy so I will start him" variety. As long as he doesn't play Counsell to much and tire him out or start playing Hall against RHP all the time, things should be ok though. Depending on who the DH is, Counsell and Hall in the same lineup would be a big mistake in my opinion.

[kramnoj]

Here is Fangraphs leaderboard at 2B: http://www.fangraphs.com/...pe=6&season=2009&month=0 Weeks was the 4th best player at 2B so far this season, per their stats.

 

Definitely a disappointment. I had convinced myself that Weeks being on the DL for a little bit would have the silver lining of Gamel getting good exposure at 3B and then Weeks could come back to finish the season. I don't think the Brewers need to look elsewhere. The internal options should be decent enough for now. We'll see if Gamel can stick at 3B and Counsell should be fine with 3 or 4 starts a week at 2B. Hall always plays 2B against LHP and Casey gets a few more starts. If the Brewers lose ground and the previous players don't plan out as well as hoped, then the Brewers can look for an option down the stretch.

[JJHardy7]

Weeks was on pace to be worth $29.25 million this year, per fangraphs. By comparison, CC was worth $30 milliom this year. To say Weeks was failing is as far from the truth as you could possibly be.

 

I don't know how much I buy that in May though X. If he did it all year, yes Weeks would've had an amazing year. I'm not saying he wouldn't have. I am saying I do remember other stretches where it seemed like he 'broke out' and then he went the other direction. I feel like we've been saying for more than a few years now 'this could be Weeks break out year'. Again, I don't hate Rickie or anything like that. I just think it's May. His history does not indicate he would've kept this stretch up. For whatever reason, he hasn't been able to do that yet.

 

We're over 10 months from opening day next year. Thats a huge difference from his last wrist injury. He will be 100% by the start of spring training.

 

I don't think it's a huge difference. Didn't he have scar tissue issues with his wrist about a year after his last surgery? Or at least that was the thought around here. It may have been over a year. Now it is also both wrists. At what point does this negatively impact his bat speed? From what the JS posted earlier today, it seems like it's rare for this to occur on both wrists. He very well could be 100%. I just don't know based on his swing and how important his wrists are if he'll recover by next year. I'd have to imagine at one point or another this can't be good for his wrists. Who is Rickie Weeks? We really don't know. He's never put it all together for a full season. I'm not saying he won't be 'the guy' at 2B next year. I am saying it's probably about time to not think of him as the future at 2B...at least not without competition or a backup that is ready to step in should he slump again or get hurt. Until Rickie puts it all together for an entire season we can't just bank on him producing at a full year pace like he was so far this year. I'd love to see it happen though.

[GamelToe]

To be fair, fangraphs also rates Nyjer Morgan as more valuable than Ryan Braun.

[Team Canada]

So, the thread title indicates that Iribarren is coming up, but nothing has been confirmed in this thread yet. Has this been confirmed yet?

I believe I saw a TH blog post that said he had been pulled from the game and was on his way to Milwaukee.

[PKBadger]

So, the thread title indicates that Iribarren is coming up, but nothing has been confirmed in this thread yet. Has this been confirmed yet?

I believe I saw a TH blog post that said he had been pulled from the game and was on his way to Milwaukee.

That would suck, as our next game is in Houston. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[lukevan]

So, the thread title indicates that Iribarren is coming up, but nothing has been confirmed in this thread yet. Has this been confirmed yet?

 

Link

 

Look under his post in the 1st inning.

[chowyo123]

Look under his post in the 1st inning.

I saw that as well, but Iribarren ended up pinch hitting in the 9th.

[endaround]

To be fair, fangraphs also rates Nyjer Morgan as more valuable than Ryan Braun.

 

A big problem with fangraphs is that they take early UZR stats and treat them like hitting stats when they just aren't. They're not really a record of what happened, they're more what happened compared to what could have happened given a draw from another distribution. Morgan at 9.9 runs defensively when the top LFer was at 16.5 for an entire season.

[mls4]

I can't believe the Brewers just swept the Cardinals and are in 1st place and I don't feel like celebrating one bit.

 

I am really bummed about Weeks. I guess I didn't realize how much I was enjoying his improved play.

[clancyphile]

I think the best option is to move Hall to 2nd to platoon with Counsell.

 

And then hope Gamel gets that bat moving right away and can stay at 3B full time. Anything else will be a HUGE drop off offensively.

Well, his three-run homer tonight removed a lot of worries. He'll be fine with the bat... he's a left-handed hitting version of Ryan Braun. That is the good news.

[Baldkin]

He'll be fine with the bat... he's a left-handed hitting version of Ryan Braun. That is the good news.

There's no way he'll hit as well as Braun did, so please don't expect that... only one rookie in the last 30 years hit as well as Braun did and that was Pujols.

 

Hopefully his defense (a bit better)+offense (a bit worse) will be somewhat close to a wash, but not many guys transition to MLB hitting the way Braun did.

[Oldcity]

Well Dave Winfield just told me the Mets losing Carlos Delgado is a bigger loss than the Brewers losing Weeks, so it must not be that bad.

[naivin]

Weeks is jinxed. His injuries only seem to pop up when he's raking and looking like he's finally putting it all together.

There seem sto be some validity to this, and it certainly makes one wonder if injuries ultimately derailed his career. If you look at it in the opposite direction, is it possible if not likley that his very poor play (hitting) has been a result of not being 100% healthy, or at least not being 100% confident that he was recovered from injury?

[naivin]

I trust Macha to deal with this better then Ned would have.

I don't know how relevant that is, but I trust this more mature group of players to handle this better than the group the last couple years would have.