Top Notch Starters at Deadline

[southpaw121505]

I'm talking about taking on salary this year too, you have to wonder how much higher we can go realistically on one pitcher while still feeling comfortable that we have a little breathing room to take on more later in case of emergency.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Two words. Cliff Lee.

[nate82]

Two words. Cliff Lee.

I don't believe Lee is on the block at all no matter what ESPN and other news outlets say about him being on the block. A $9m team option for next year for Cleveland is very cheap and they will be competitive next year in a very weak AL Central I don't see why they should or would trade Lee. This is not Sabathia where Cleveland knows he is going to be gone next year. Cliff Lee has a very inexpensive team option for next year and it would be silly for Cleveland to trade him away with that cheap of an option.

[endaround]

Same reason I doubt Webb is going anywhere (unless the DBacks think his injury is that severe that he won't be healthy even next year).

[Playing Catch]

Dontrelle Willis anyone? I don't think that if I were DM I'd have the guts to go with that kind of flier, but you could catch lightning-in-a-bottle and give yourself a chance to resign him after 2010. Clearly, the Brewers would need to not have to pay the entire $10 mil/year. I dunno, the thought just seemed intriguing.

[jvrocksaz]

A. Escobar, B. Katin & T. Green for Matt Cain?

[TheCrew07]

I give up... how can they trade Escobar without resigning Hardy? What's the more likely scenario? Just about every proposal in this Forum has different Escobar scenarios. If JJ had 4 years before FA then you could absolutely move Escobar, hoping to have time to develop another player or resign JJ long-term. JJ has less than 2 years, and the organization hasn't even discussed an extension with him. The writing is on the wall for Hardy... I recommend accepting it and moving on.

[Invader3K]

Do we know for sure they haven't discussed an extension at all?

 

I keep going back to JJ's comments this off-season about enjoying being here and wanting to stay. For all we know he could be re-signed this off-season, though I wouldn't put money on it. I'm sure Melvin isn't just planning on trading Escobar, letting JJ walk after next season, and not having some kind of long term plan for a key infield position.

[TheCrew07]

If you take Melvin's word on this subject at face then yes, it was in the JS during spring training. He hasn't approached JJ and Hardy's camp hasn't approached him.

 

Every athlete who's a decent guy says he likes the town where he's playing, those are throw away comments. I'm sure Fielder would say the same thing and he'll chase the money regardless as will Hardy. It would be nice if one time an athlete would actually take a lesser contract in baseball, but when was the last time that actually happened in FA? Players go where the most money is, end of story.

[Hate those Rodents]

I think Hardy really does like it here. But there's probably 9-10 other places he'd like to play equal to Milwaukee, if not more. The main issue to me would be salary. I am not paying 60 million for six more years of Hardy when I have confidence in Escobar, who I can get six years out of for around 10 million in all liklihood.

[jvrocksaz]

I give up... how can they trade Escobar without resigning Hardy? What's the more likely scenario? Just about every proposal in this Forum has different Escobar scenarios. If JJ had 4 years before FA then you could absolutely move Escobar, hoping to have time to develop another player or resign JJ long-term. JJ has less than 2 years, and the organization hasn't even discussed an extension with him. The writing is on the wall for Hardy... I recommend accepting it and moving on.

Well Hardy still has another year under our control plus there is another player down at AAA named Adam Heether who keeps putting up numbers and nobody gives him a thought!!! If Escobar can bring me a big time, top of the rotation starter, we can compete for a championship in 2009 and 2010 with Hardy! That, along with the success of last year, would make a nice 3 year run I never imagined I would see again in my lifetime! Heck even after Hardy leaves in 2011, if we don't have Escobar, we still have another year of Prince, Braun, Weeks, Hart and Gamel in our lineup! By then a few of the other positional prospects will have arrived and we would still have Gallardo, Cain (if we were to trade Escobar) & Parra in the rotation! That could be another successful year! To me it's about trying to win a World Series Championship while we have this core here! The time is NOW!!!!

[lcbj68c]

Escobar doesn't thrill me. I'm probably in the minority. I'm not worried about the shortstop in 2011. Whether it be Hardy, Heether, Escobar or a free agent. I doubt we run 8 guys out on defense. I'd rather send Escobar away for pitching. Again, I'm the minority, but sometimes...that's okay.

[Hate those Rodents]

There's a decent chance Escobar can land you the same type of pitcher Hardy can land you. Maybe you need to add a little more to an Escobar package, but that depends who we are trading with. Saving 5-10 million per year is big for me. We need to shuffle out guys when we have replacements ready. We are not the Yankees and can not be sentimental toward resigning our "original core" of Fielder/Hardy/Hart at any cost. When we can replace a player and save quite a bit of money in doing so, it needs to be done for a (I'll even now call it) mid-market team. Nobody had a problem with Overbay either, but we had a cheaper option and were able to deal him for good value. The same needs to happen with Hardy, though we can debate the pros and cons of Hardy vs. Escobar tirelessly as far as what they offer ON the field, which we've done tirelessly already.

[twobrewers]

Well Hardy still has another year under our control plus there is another player down at AAA named Adam Heether who keeps putting up numbers and nobody gives him a thought!!!

Seriously, we read your first 30 posts on Adam Heether. If you really want an "Adam Heether" thread - just start one.

[lcbj68c]

I get saving money as well. But not everybody on the roster can make under 1M. Why can't Hardy be the paid veteran on this team? If you subscribe to the philosophy of shuffling out everybody when the replacements were ready, you'd see Gwynn over Cameron, etc. Eventually you have to have some veterans who are going to eat some payroll. I can't subscribe to the "philosophy of the revolving door".

[Hate those Rodents]

SS is the only position I am advocating doing this for. I am not saying we need to trade Fielder. And if Hart produces like he did in 2007 and the first half of last year, we can pay him more as well. But Escobar is basically ready and Hardy is a valuable trading chip. It's absolutely the easiest decision for me, just a matter of when to do it, be it now for a #2/#3 pitcher, or in the off-season.

[jvrocksaz]

Well Hardy still has another year under our control plus there is another player down at AAA named Adam Heether who keeps putting up numbers and nobody gives him a thought!!!

Seriously, we read your first 30 posts on Adam Heether. If you really want an "Adam Heether" thread - just start one.

Wow, maybe chill a bit? Seriously! My apologizes for ruining your day! My original post on this subject was to propose a deal that included Escobar. It had nothing to do with Heether...

[Never Outhustled]

Seriously, we read your first 30 posts on Adam Heether.

You sure that wasn't me? I'm the one who's been beating the Adam Heether drum. Its mostly because of the simple reason that he's really good. His MLEs right now are 308/382/478/860. His career mirrors lateblooming middle infielders like Mike Aviles and Jeff Keppinger.

 

I don't know why Hardy and Escobar are the only 2 guys that are allowed to be considered for the 2011 starting job. We don't even know who all the candidates could be.

[endaround]

Not sure how Aviles helps your discussion... Now Scutaro!

 

Heether just looks to be a better bet than McGehee as this point if you expect that person to get 150 PAs at 2B going forward.

[Never Outhustled]

Not sure how Aviles helps your discussion... Now Scutaro!

 

 

Aviles career OPS is well above average at SS, and is better than Scutaro's. Aviles played injured this year, torpedoing his numbers. Scutaro was a sub 700 OPS guy the last 2 years, look for him to have a bad 2nd half, in fact his correction has been going on for weeks already.

[Hate those Rodents]

Getting back on target here again, and I do enjoy the Heather convo, but Washburn had another good start last night. I like him for a few reasons.

 

1) It looks so far like he's going to be dependable and give solid outings consistently all year.

2) His Wisconsin ties means we might be the leader to keep him if we traded for him.

3) I am just guessing that Melvin and JZ can work out a trade that would get Seattle a fair deal without ridding us of the prospects we want to keep for certain (Escobar, Jeffress, Lawrie, etc.). Maybe something like Green or Lucroy and a pitcher like Amundson gets it done.

[logan82]

Pretty sure we need Green and Lucroy. Unless we are going with Salome.

[Hate those Rodents]

I think we'd "like" Green. I doubt we need him. And I think we only need one of Salome/Lucroy. If you want to get a decent starting pitcher, we're going to have to give up something pretty decent. I happen to feel Gamel is the third baseman for the next several years. It also looks like McGehee and maybe the now often mentioned Heether can backup at 2B and 3B for several years. I think Green is the guy to dangle at this point. If he is the "main piece" and we can get a starter like Washburn, that's fantastic imho.

[twobrewers]

Can I just submit my vote for Randy Johnson?

 

He has pitched pretty well this year. He would be a nice LHP to add to the rotation if Parra struggles more. He has plenty of playoff experience. And I am certain that the Giants will not stick in the playoff race - so they might as well trade away assets.

 

In addition, because of Johnson's age and likely retirement - you are not looking at a "compensation pick" situation. Meaning the Giants will not get any comp picks for him after the season, so his price should be much lower.

 

I would think a mid-level pitching prospect (Frederickson?) should be enough.

[logan82]

I think we'd "like" Green. I doubt we need him. And I think we only need one of Salome/Lucroy.

We do only need one of Salome/Lucroy. We don't know who we want more yet. I prefer Lucroy since by most accounts hehas the better defense.

 

We need Green, Escobar, Lawrie, and Gamel to play in the infield by 2012.