Top Notch Starters at Deadline

[TooLiveBrew]

I simply pointed out to the original poster that the stats he used didn't fit his argument that they're "only the Orioles."

 

And said poster has explained his point in stating that numerous times... this thread should get back to discussing top starters that may be available, like Eric Bedard.

[BrewerProspectus]

we'll end the discussion there. If you believe that Ted Lilly is as good as CC Sabathia just b/c his ERA and WHIP is similar, despite pitching in vastly different leagues, we'll just never agree. There's a reason why CC was unhittable in the NL and less dominant in the AL. But I do agree, the Cubs and Cards have very good rotations--I said that from the beginning--the rest of the NL, not so much. But the fact that the Cubs and Cards do have a comparable rotation to the AL East is even further justification for the Brewers to acquire an arm like Bedard.

 

as I said earlier, that one start shouldn't matter in the whole scheme of things, except for the fact that he looks healthy....

Sure Bedard is a better option than Davis - but he'll cost elite prospects, Davis shouldn't. He's actually having a heck of a season.......

Like Harden who had a very similar track record (with injuries and production), Bedard will not cost elite prospects--perhaps maybe someone like Jeffress if Jack Z wants to take on that risk...but he won't cost Escobar, Gamel, Lawrie etc. In fact, Harden had more value as he was under contract for another year (Bedars is a FA).

 

Davis may be haviong a heck of a season, but he is what he is at this point...and that is not a top 2 rotation starter--what the Brewers need to make it to October.

[TheCrew]

Nope, we'll never agree if your going to completely make stuff up.

 

As for Bedard, your completely undervaluing what they'll want. #1 Nobody will give anything up for Jeffress at this point. #2 The M's gave up 2 all stars for Bedard (and 3 other prospects). It's going to take at least 1 elite prospect and several mid level prospects to acquire Bedard.

[BrewerProspectus]

Nope, we'll never agree if your going to completely make stuff up.

 

As for Bedard, your completely undervaluing what they'll want. #1 Nobody will give anything up for Jeffress at this point. #2 The M's gave up 2 all stars for Bedard (and 3 other prospects). It's going to take at least 1 elite prospect and several mid level prospects to acquire Bedard.

I'm completely making stuff up b/c you're failing to recognize what the entire world of baseball knows: that the AL East has the best collective pitching staff of any division in baseball AND that the hitting and pitching in the AL is far superior to the NL? OK bud, if you disagree with that based on your arguments that "well the ERA of the NL Central clubs is lower" and "the AL offensive numbers are inflated because they have a DH," then you're absolutely delusional.

 

 

 

 

Sure they did give up elite prospects, but that's a sunk cost at this point unless they're really intending to re-sign him. Again, take a look at what Harden was acquired for and let me know which one is an "elite prospect." Bedard has no higher trade value than Harden just because he was originally acquired at a steep price. That was the old mariner GM's mistake, not Jack Z's.

[TheCrew]

Staying on topic - Just because one team traded away a guy for marginal prospects, doesn't mean another team or gm will. Plus it is an entirely different trade market.

 

FWIW, prior to 2008 harden had started 20+ games 1 time in his career. He was a HUGE injury risk - Bedard is a pretty big one as well given his recent injury history, but I just don't see Jack Z giving him away for marginal prospects. It's going to take at least one big name prospect.

 

His price is also going to be driven up because a number of teams are looking for pitching (Dodgers, Brewers, Phillies, White Sox, Red Sox, Yankees, etc.).

[Teatoe993]

A number of teams will always be looking for pitching at the deadline. It's the same every year. This is not some freak season where every team still in it needs pitching. Heck, even the Astros traded for Wolf last year to take them to the promised land.

[Invader3K]

Rumor has it Pedro Martinez has signed with the Phillies. If that's true, I guess that takes him off any list.

[jwill535]

Pedro was off the list a long time ago. He is more then washed up.

[Invader3K]

Yeah, I was getting sick of people screaming for him to be signed. I think they're remembering the Pedro Martinez of five or six years ago, and not the more recent one.

[804Sox]

A couple notable capsules on guys that have been discussed here from heyman's trade deadline article.

 

1. Halladay, Blue Jays starter. He may not get dealt, as Jays people are concerned about strong fan backlash in Toronto. But the guess here is that he still probably will. He's the close-to-consensus best pitcher in the game (though Johan Santana, Tim Lincecum and Zack Greinke have their fans, too).

 

3. Doug Davis, Diamondbacks P. The Brewers have inquired. But the offers are such that Arizona is now considering an extension for Davis.

 

5. Erik Bedard, Mariners P. Tough to deal him while Seattle's contending. But the minute they fall, he should go. Very talented pitcher, though arm and personality questions may limit the take.

 

8. Cliff Lee, Indians P. Very solid pitcher is performing closer to his norm after incomprehensible 22-3 season of a year ago. Cleveland's reluctant to deal him since there's a reasonable $9-million, 2010 option. But teams will call.

 

Prospects who are close to untouchable

1. Clay Buchholz, Red Sox P. His stock has soared with a big year at Pawtucket. Will get his first start of the year for Boston Friday.

 

7. Alcides Escobar, Brewers, SS. Sterling defender. Though, a Brewers person's comparison of Escobar to Alfredo Griffin gave me pause (Griffin was good, but no superstar) and made me wonder if he could be had in the right deal.

[endaround]

The fact that Heyman thinks Lee is closer to his career norms than last year should tell you all you need to know about his knowledge of baseball.

[bando1234]

So they are not top notch starters but what about Orlando Hernandez, looks as if the Rangers are letting him go, did decent in 07 & has some decent stats in AAA (although just a small sample). I know he is like 44(and I really like players who are older than I am) but he would be relativly cheap & could help.

 

I believe Kei Igawa was another guy I have wondered about. I know he is owed a ton of money. I know he has not produced at a major league level but he has 71 total innings at the major league level. He has put up some decent number in AAA. It just seems like the Yankees are pitching rich & never really gave him much of a chance outside of his first year here. I know this would have to be a bad contract trade (Bill Hall) or the Yankees would have to eat a chunk of his salary. I think he neds a change of scenery.

[Never Outhustled]

If we're going to roll the dice, I'd rather give an oppurtunity to Chris Cody, who is as good or better at AAA than those 2, and he's free.

[derflotr]

For what it's worth - and I'm not all that excited about it - apparently the Brewers scouted Cliff Lee today. I guess they're doing their homework, right?

[Invader3K]

I'd love to get Cliff Lee, but again fear the price would be way high.

[Hate those Rodents]

Paul Byrd or Odalis Perez make sense if we are going to be without Bush for a while or if we have no faith in Burns anymore, none yet in Cody, etc.

[Yeti73]

Lee makes more sense than Halliday. Lower asking price, good club option for 2010. Surely, even the Crew could give him better run support than the Tribe have. A Yo Lee combo would put us in great position for 2010 and we may be able to keep the Gamels and the Escobars.

[nate82]

Lee makes more sense than Halliday. Lower asking price, good club option for 2010. Surely, even the Crew could give him better run support than the Tribe have. A Yo Lee combo would put us in great position for 2010 and we may be able to keep the Gamels and the Escobars.

Lee is not going anywhere though. It would take as much to get Lee as it would take to get Halladay.

[jjkoestler]

I mentioned this in the Doc thread, but I like the idea of a Lee + Vic Martinez trade. What does it take to get it done? I can't see it costing much more than a package to get Doc.

[trwi7]

I mentioned this in the Doc thread, but I like the idea of a Lee + Vic Martinez trade. What does it take to get it done? I can't see it costing much more than a package to get Doc.

That's going to cost way more than Halladay.

 

I think Gamel, Escobar and Lawrie would all be in the trade as well as a couple of our high ceiling pitchers lower in the minors.

[Oldcity]

Yeah, I don't see Lee costing much less than Halladay if any. If we're going to make a huge offer for someone, I'd actually be inclined to make a play for Dan Haren before Halladay or Lee. He'd be a Brewer long term. Reports from about a month ago said Arizona might at least consider offers for him.

[DHonks]

Stevo, my understanding is that AZ views Haren as a part of their longterm plans. Additionally, they are looking to sign Doug Davis to an extension

[Oldcity]

That's probably true, but there were reports that the Angels asked about him awhile ago. He's someone I'd feel more comfortable breaking the bank for, which is only why I mentioned it.