Top Notch Starters at Deadline

[naivin]

Would anyone be willing to take on a large portion of Vernon Wells' ridiculous contract in exchange for Hallady? Maybe Hall and Cameron (and perhaps a decent prospect) for Wells and Halladay? I'm guessing Toronto would jump at that deal. Hopefully the Brewers would not.

[Invader3K]

Boy, looking at Wells' contact, he's owed a ton of money through 2014. I don't think the Brewers could swing his $20 million+ salary.

[bamberger]

The Blue Jays are good in the OF, but older and marginal on the left side of the infield-Scutaro and Rolen. They also need younger catching and would likely want a pitcher or two back.

 

Although for impending arbitration/salary reasons I would prefer to move Hardy over Escobar, I would consider including any prospects for Halladay. He's a # 1 guy, and the Brewers have no one on the horizon, they have more position prospects, and this would bridge them to 2011-12, while they have the position players, to when they have more position players and some good minor league pitching . They'd pay him less than they would have for Sabathia for the next year and one-half.

 

I would consider including all of Gamel/Escobar/Lucroy and two pitchers: an AAA/AA guy and an A/R level guy. We could ask them to take Bill Hall, to keep our salary down, and maybe get Marcus Scutaro back for depth this year. Maybe another prospect to cover a positional need.

[Invader3K]

Then again, the more I'm thinking about it...if the Brewers agreed to take Wells along with Halladay, is there a chance they might only have to give up very little to get him? They'd be doing the Jays a huge favor by eating that much salary, you'd think.

[naivin]

Then again, the more I'm thinking about it...if the Brewers agreed to take Wells along with Halladay, is there a chance they might only have to give up very little to get him? They'd be doing the Jays a huge favor by eating that much salary, you'd think.

I assume they'd have to give up next to nothing, but that contract is a bear. However, we could probably get them to take Bill Hall as well, and we would know who is playing CF for the next few years. I'm sure the Blue Jays would be thrilled to do the deal. I think it would be a mistake for the Brewers though. Just look at how hamstrung they ware with the Bill Hall contract which is about half as much as Wells will be due for the next 5 years. Wells is already 30 years old too. He would be our very own Alfonso Soriano.

 

Seems liek a deal someone like the Yankess could make though. Obviously being in the same division complicates things.

[shelmark]

I'd like to get Rolen along with Halladay. Give them Gamel, Escobar, and a couple pitching prospects. There are plenty of prospects folks, we have a draft every year so don't get too excited about losing some. Taylor Green will be a fine 3B in about two years and we can sign Hardy long term. Rolen and Halladay would bring the Central crown to the crew.

[lcbj68c]

Braddock, Lawrie, Escobar, and Green/Lucroy for Halladay ~~nate82

 

I'm not good at putting potential trades together, but if that is indeed reasonable to the Blue Jays, than why not?

Braddock has been turned reliever it seems, so not a huge loss. Green is seemingly blocked by Gamel. Salome still remains if you let Lucroy go. Sure, it sucks losing Escobar and Lawrie, but you get a return of Halladay and solve the logjam at SS. You're not mortgaging your entire future. If you still believe in Rickie Weeks, then Lawrie is expendable. There is still depth there with Heether or Dykstra. I'd do this move in a heartbeat and I dont think it mortgages a significant part of 2012-2014.

[shelmark]

Lawrie would be popular in Toronto for sure. I think the Jays would want another pitcher in that deal, one that is closer to the majors and that might be a stumbling block. I'd do that trade in a second.

[BrewCrewRising]

Lucroy might be the better all around SS since Salome has defensive concerns. In truth, both Salome and Lucroy are expandable since Kendall will be playing with the Crew until he is 45.

You don't really solve the logjam at SS by giving up Escobar since JJ is not signed long term. You only remove concerns of a SS logjam through next year.

Even if I do believe in Rickie Weeks, how does that make Lawrie expandable? He's a few years away, and in a few years Rickie is going to be an expensive FA. I like Rickie, but before his injury he was only just turning it around. He hasn't proved his doubters yet.

It seems like a lot to rent Halladay. Seems like more than it did to rent CC, and we had a more complete team around CC.

EDIT: I'm not against the trade idea overall BTW. But I do think it takes more than Hallday to make us true contenders, and that's my concern about trading all that talent away. Also, I don't want them to trade Escobar until Hardy is signed to an extension.

[shelmark]

Isn't Halladay signed through 2010? If so then this is much different than the CC deal and it would not be a rental.

[southpaw121505]

I'd LOVE to have Halladay but I just can't give up 2 of Gamel, Escobar, Lawrie...just can't do it. I'd do a deal with one of them as the centerpiece, preferably Lawrie.

[nate82]

Then again, the more I'm thinking about it...if the Brewers agreed to take Wells along with Halladay, is there a chance they might only have to give up very little to get him? They'd be doing the Jays a huge favor by eating that much salary, you'd think.

Either Hall or Suppan would have to be in the deal for that. The Brewers would still be on the losing end of that deal money wise. Since Hall is only owed $8.4m next year with a $500k buyout in '11. That is nothing compared to what Wells is owed for the next 4 years of $98.5m. The Jays would have to pay at least some of Wells salary in order for this to work for the Brewers. Also Wells has a full no trade clause so he could block the deal which he would more than likely do if there is no OF spot open for him to play in.

 

Another deal I was thinking about would be Suppan, Hart, Lawrie, Braddock, and Lucroy/Green for Halladay and Wells plus cash. That is a lot of talent to give up for just two players and that is a lot of salary coming in. Suppan would cover Wells contract for the next two years for the Brewers and the cash would be to pay for a part of Wells contract for one of the 2 remaining years.

 

Wells would be a crippling contract to take on for the Brewers though. I'm not sure I would like to have Wells who would be making about as much as Sabathia would have been making if the Brewers would have signed him. This would be at about half or worse production that you would get out of Sabathia. I'm not sure I would do this trade even if Halladay is coming to the Brewers Wells is just to financially crippling for the Brewers.

[Invader3K]

I'd like to get Rolen along with Halladay. Give them Gamel, Escobar, and a couple pitching prospects. There are plenty of prospects folks, we have a draft every year so don't get too excited about losing some. Taylor Green will be a fine 3B in about two years and we can sign Hardy long term. Rolen and Halladay would bring the Central crown to the crew.

I like Rolen, but his best years are probably behind him at this point, so I don't see how he'd really benefit the Brewers. Also, I will freely admit to not being as enamored with keeping prospects as many around here, but I don't think you can trade Gamel and Escobar for any one pitcher, no matter how good he is. I would trade one, but not both. My understanding is that Escobar and Gamel are far and away ahead of any other prospects in the Brewers system right now.

 

Also, as far as Hardy, we really don't know if he will be willing to sign long term or not at this point.

[BrewCrewRising]

Isn't Halladay signed through 2010? If so then this is much different than the CC deal and it would not be a rental.

 

Yes, you are correct. That does change that.

 

Although, I think it would be easier to convince Shapiro to part with Lee. He's been stocking up on young talent, and he migh as well go the distance.

[shelmark]

Shapiro wants major league ready arms, we don't have that.

[southpaw121505]

OT-I sat in Shapiro's suite during game 4 of the 07 ALCS

[brewmann04]

so we only have hall and suppan contract for 1 more year,that not to bad it should give us some flexibilty in 2011

[TooLiveBrew]

Shapiro wants major league ready arms, we don't have that.

 

I think you're forgetting Manny Parra

[TooLiveBrew]

Eric Bedard's final line against the O's: 4 IP, 2 H, 2 R, 1 BB, 8 K (72 pitches)

 

 

EDIT: His highest velocity on the start was 94 mph

[BrewerProspectus]

I'd be surprised if Bedard weren't a Brewer by the All Star Game if the Brewers were to make a move this year. He makes far more sense than Halladay.

[shelmark]

But why would Seattle trade him when they are still in the playoff hunt and playing good ball? Why would we want him when he is currently on pitch counts due to a shoulder injury? Why does he make more sense than Halladay when Halladay is a better pitcher signed through 2010?

[Oldcity]

He makes more sense than Halladay because he's just a fraction of the price. Problem is they won't be able to get Bedard much before the trade deadline because Seattle won't trade him when there's just a few games out.

 

As good as Halladay is, if the Brewers are willing to give what it takes to get him, I'd rather see them take that offer to Arizona for Haren. Haren's under team control for a long time, as opposed to only a year and a half for Halladay.

 

Don't see either one happening though, obviously.

[BrewerProspectus]

But why would Seattle trade him when they are still in the playoff hunt and playing good ball? Why would we want him when he is currently on pitch counts due to a shoulder injury? Why does he make more sense than Halladay when Halladay is a better pitcher signed through 2010?

 

Everyone and their mother realizes that the Mariners aren't really "in the hunt" despite what their record indicates. They've got an awful farm system that needs to be re-tooled, have already lost Beltre for the year, and know that the Angels have their best ball in front of them (as they usually do in the second half). Couple that with the Rangers being buyers and Jack Z knows full well that his team is a paper tiger in the AL West right now. It's very similar to the Harden situation last year, where most thought Billy Beane would string teams along until the deadline to deal the oft-injured Harden...but then he pulled the trigger immediately, fearing a possible subsequent DL stint that would greatly diminish his value. If Bedard were to go on the DL at any point again in the next couple weeks, or hell, just miss a start, he becomes essentially untradeable. So Jack Z has to weigh the risk of injury in waiting to deal Bedard with the added value he may get by waiting. Also, as we all know he knows the Brewers farm system very well--if he waits, perhaps the Brewers fall out of contention and decide to be sellers. Obviously there's a lot less risk in acquiring the players he knows very well than there is in those that he doesn't. So, that's another risk he'd have to weigh by waiting. For the Brewers, the deal is obvious; yes, he's coming off the DL, but he appears OK. Similar to the Cubs last year w/ Harden, there's an added risk w/ Bedard, but it's the best one out there. There Brewers cannot afford to trade for Halladay and give up Escobar/Gamel, b/c those are the players they need to afford an elite pitcher in the first place (don't think for a second the Brewers can pay Hardy at short, Hart in right, and Halladay on the mound on top of needing to sign a CF, C and another Closer next year). Halladay doesn't make sense b/c you cannot give up the prospects you'd need to afford him in the first place. If the Brewers can make an offer w/ Hardy and Parra as the "centerpieces" w/ more top tier lower prospects, then fine-do it. But that's not happening. The Brewers should strike for Bedard now that the rest of the world is more concerned with Halladay, particularly given the relationship w/ Jack Z, a Harden-like offer should be enough (even less considering Bedard's a FA after this year).

[TooLiveBrew]

I like that Bedard would be cheaper, but I hope the Brewers want to see him demonstrate that he can handle an 'Every 5th Day' type of workload. One good start of 72 pitches is nice & all, but this *was* the Orioles' lineup. I doubt any deal gets looked at seriously until after Bedard has made at least two or three more (solid) starts.

[Oldcity]

Just as a side note, the Orioles actually have a pretty good offense. Their pitching is what's kept them down.