The Happy Youngster Strikes Again? Coghlan's Home Run Ball Held for Ransom

[Fatter than Joey]

Only, the guy who caught it was a grounds keeper and an employee of the Cardinals.

 

The guy who caught Aaron's HR #755, was an employee of the Brewers, and he didn't give the ball to Aaron either

[Invader3K]

Alright, i know I'm opening a can of worms here - so maybe someone can just PM me - but what is the entire story behind the Jenkins 200 ball?

 

When Jenkins hit his 200th HR -- HY caught the ball and demanded multiple bats from Prince and others, I forget the particulars, but there was an ugly exchange as well. In his defense, he did not murder anyone or beat up any kids.

I think he wanted signed bats from Fielder, Weeks, Hardy, and Braun, or something along those lines. Again, he didn't want anything from Jenkins, he wanted the more valuable stuff (arguably). HY claimed later he wanted those items "for his kids."

[pretendastronaut]

I think he wanted signed bats from Fielder, Weeks, Hardy, and Braun, or something along those lines. Again, he didn't want anything from Jenkins, he wanted the more valuable stuff (arguably). HY claimed later he wanted those items "for his kids."

 

Here's the post on his blog that shows what he got for it.

[logan82]

I see no problem asking for a bat or something else from Ramirez at the outset. I think once Coghlan balked at that idea then pressing the issue is wrong.

 

The Cubs have Ronny Woo Woo. We have HY. Both reflect badly on their respective fan base.

[pitchleague]

at this time, I would have to wonder if HY's boss at the "law enforcement" place that he works (don't know if it's police or what) has received word of this and, if so, if HY's job situation could be changing. Wonder if he would get any pressure from his seargent (or whatever boss he has) to change his ways or else.

 

I don't care either way about "ball hawking." They may not (or may) push little kids over, but I bet they definitely duke it out with elbows and body checks with other "ball hawks" as a ball comes flying in.

 

Anyways, I'm pretty embarassed to be a Brewer fan today. The Cardinals announcers can now officially "bring it" because of this incident.

[DuWayne Steurer]

As a Brewer fan, I don't ever really get worked up over a lack of media coverage, or a supposed "lack of respect" our boys get for being a podunk midwest baseball team. I don't care how much the national media covers our guys, as long as we win.

 

This is different though, I'd like to think as fans we'd want to be thought of as generally decent, courteous, whatever.

 

I know in the grand scheme of things it matters not at all, and people who want to form their opinion of a fan base based on the childish and foolish actions of one greedy person are really acting out of ignorance, but it does to a small degree bother me that this one guy's actions can and will shape how our fans are looked at from an outsider's perspective.

[Irish Brewer]

Personally I feel that a handshake is all that is needed to get the ball back. To the HY, the ball is just another item/collectible, but to Coghlan it is something that is very personal. While professionals are not perfect, they put in a lot of time and effort to get to where they are...I think its only fair to let them have the ball as a mile marker for their career.

 

As for ball hawking in general, to each his own. I personally don't understand it, but if its not hurting anyone, then whatever. I think its more the HY interactions with the Marlins that have him in the wrong here, not necessarily his ball hawking habit.

[wildbobu]

I just think asking for something from another player is in poor taste, what did Ramirez have to do with any of this. Ask whatever you want of the guy who hit the ball but leave it at that. And don't forget that HY after it was all said in done still held on to the ball and made Coghlan beg for it even after meeting his demands. I think that above anything else says all I need to know about the guy. I too hope that people realize this is one individual and Brewer fan's in large are nothing like him.

[wildbobu]

I forgot to mention, possibly because I'm still shocked, but I can't believe that there is an actual leage for ball hawking. Really that just floors me. To each his own I guess but I for one don't get that at all. And after reading a few of these blogs I can't believe they can keep stats where you have to take guys like HY's word for it. Anybody who will lie, cheat, steal to get a ball I just can't see not padding thier stats.

[valpocrewsader]

when the Marlins employee came out to his seat with a bat from Coghlan that should have been it.

 

If a person has something that means more to him/her than what's being offered in trade, why would that person ever agree to the swap? If I want to display some top prospect's first HR ball on my mantle amongst some other special HR balls I caught, why should I give that up for some bat that's no where near as desirable to me? At that point, I'd just go home and keep the ball -- I still think Coghlan's lucky that HY continued to negotiate with him.

[RyDogg66]

I guess I didnt realize Craig Coghlan ow whatever his name is was the next Ryan Braun. He seemed more like an average prospect to me, but I dont know the Marlins system either. Regardless, I doubt the ball that Happy caught had any value to him whatsoever. I think the game used bat, with an inscription acknowledging the trade/catch/HR, whatever. But to each his own.

[sargennm]

If a person has something that means more to him/her than what's being offered in trade, why would that person ever agree to the swap?

Because there's no way in hell that ball means more to HY than it did to Coghlan. There is something called grace and gratitude. Couglan "negotiated" in good faith and was willing to provide him with stuff HE could give him. Ramirez didn't factor into any of this and shouldn't have been involved.

 

IMO, HY is lucky we live in the internet age and that Coghlan and Co. didn't "trade" a couple lumps on the head for the ball.

[NastyTwig]

If a person has something that means more to him/her than what's being offered in trade, why would that person ever agree to the swap? If I want to display some top prospect's first HR ball on my mantle amongst some other special HR balls I caught, why should I give that up for some bat that's no where near as desirable to me? At that point, I'd just go home and keep the ball -- I still think Coghlan's lucky that HY continued to negotiate with him

That's all beside the point. It shouldn't be on your mantle anyway. It's not special to you. You caught a ball. You were in the right place at the right time. The guy that hit the ball has put in 20 years of work to get that ball. These people are still human beings even if we pay money to see them. It's not like you'd keep the crap that the monkey threw you at the zoo.

 

But what if that monkey wanted the poo back? Would you hold out for a couple bananas? Signed plastic moldings?

 

I'm really hoping that bringing up monkey poop makes this thread jump the shark and die already.

[Invader3K]

If a person has something that means more to him/her than what's being offered in trade, why would that person ever agree to the swap? If I want to display some top prospect's first HR ball on my mantle amongst some other special HR balls I caught, why should I give that up for some bat that's no where near as desirable to me?

Because there's such a thing as showing class and being a nice guy. Clearly HY wasn't interested in that, which is his prerogative. Let's not pretend that this ball really meant a thing to HY, either, judging by what he's said on his blog and the fact he already has a huge ball collection. He was only wearing a Marlins hat as a ruse, it's not like he's actually some die hard Marlins fan who's been following Coghlan through his minor league run.

[wildbobu]

Well if I found someones wedding ring in my front yard and they offered me $20 for it back. I guess the ring would be worth more to me so no chance I would give it back. Now I know that circumstances are different but they really aren't all that different. And to some people the feeling of doing the right thing would have to be accounted for something.

[Patrick425]

Ok, read a little more of this thread and thought about it a little more. Seems to me that many people are not thrilled with the whole ball hawking "hobby". If it's true that these "ball hawkers" push people aside, run over people, cause people to spill there food, intrude in sections that they don't have tickets, etc....then yes, this seems like something that should be looked into and maybe efforts should be made to stop this practice. Also, if HY is obtaining balls in this manner and then trying to "profit" from it, I can see how people would be offended by this. I'm not as offended as others (basically because I don't think his "loot" is anything that substantial that would cause great hardship to the player, the FL Marlins, or MLB), but I understand the argument.

 

Take away all the ball hawking. Let's assume a fan just happen to get a HR ball that was hit his way and landed in his lap. I don't understand why people think players are entitled to a ball just because it "means more" to them than the person who has ownership of it. This is a quote from a post and there have been many other's like it.

 

Because there's no way in hell that ball means more to HY than it did to Coghlan

So What! I'm sorry, but just because someone possesses something that means more to you than to that person, does not entitle you to get it from that person at no cost. Isn't that why you sell things? Because you don't want it and someone else does?

 

The people across the street from us are having a rummage sale. They obviously don't want all that stuff and maybe some of it would mean more to me than it would to them. I'm going to ask if I can just have it.

[pretendastronaut]

Well if I found someones wedding ring in my front yard and they offered me $20 for it back. I guess the ring would be worth more to me so no chance I would give it back. Now I know that circumstances are different but they really aren't all that different. And to some people the feeling of doing the right thing would have to be accounted for something.

 

I don't know if that came out the way you wanted it to...

[Invader3K]

So What! I'm sorry, but just because someone possesses something that means more to you than to that person, does not entitle you to get it from that person at no cost. Isn't that why you sell things? Because you don't want it and someone else does?

Well, I don't think anyone is really disputing that HY couldn't get something for it. I don't think anyone is even saying he was out of line to ask for a Ramirez bat (or whatever) initially. I think it's just the general sense of entitlement and bad attitude he displayed in this thing that has really rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, coupled with his public track record in such matters. Plus the fact that it's giving Milwaukee a bad rap in the media and blogosphere does not help. Given the name of this website, that shouldn't be too surprising.

[Thurston Fluff]

As Brewers fans, I'm sure we've all noticed how Doug Melvin has been able to cultivate good working relationships with GM's around the league and many are eager to trade with him. That's because DM understands how to construct a deal that is fair for both sides and makes both teams better. He's not always out to "win" the trade. There's a lesson there.

 

AS baseball fans we all see Scott Boras play one Gm off another in order to get the most for his clients. Doug does not cultivate his relationships with other GM's out of some sort of love of all things baseball of because of his need to make sure others get their fair share. He does it to keep options open for the future. Completely different situations.

 

 

Well, and as mentioned before, he's not killing people or selling drugs either, so I guess that makes it OK. Usually this kind of logic is used to justify something others find blatantly distasteful, though.

 

No more distasteful than taking steroids and claiming it was an accidental dose of something a doctor prescribed for you or leaving via FA as soon as you can because you can make 7.5 million instead of 7 million. It's just business. They can't have it both ways. If it's ok to leave the fans then don't expect all fans to treat you like they owe you something.

 

Yeah. Unfortunately, this stands to make it easier for the Cardinals' and STL media to muckrake about the Brewers.

 

Since they already formed their opinion of us it didn't really matter did it? They hate us because we beat their sorry team like a drum not because of one fan's antics. If you are really worried about what their media and fans think go back to being their whipping boy and they will all be cordial and nice. All last year proved was they are poor losers.

[sargennm]

So What! I'm sorry, but just because someone possesses something that means more to you than to that person, does not entitle you to get it from that person at no cost. Isn't that why you sell things? Because you don't want it and someone else does?

I don't think there's anyone on here thinks HY should have just immediately chucked the ball into the Marlins bullpen and said, "Here you go guys." But his embarrassingly juvenile negotiation tactics - asking for bats from other players, tickets to a Yanks-Marlins series in Florida and wearing that stupid Marlins hat to pose as a fan - goes to show he was trying to squeeze the most of his lucky catch. He couldn't have cared less about what that ball means, just what it could get him.

 

The people across the street from us are having a rummage sale. They obviously don't want all that stuff and maybe some of it would mean more to me than it would to them. I'm going to ask if I can just have it.

 

Give me a break. This isn't an issue of monetary value, it's sentimental. If i bought a book from you at a rumage sale, and your kids first grade artwork was in the book, legally it's mine. I bought it. But if you want it back does that mean that I should hold it up until you give me your family car. It's just some kids artwork to me, but it means more to you and your family. Jesus, in reality he should have just handed the ball over, got a picture with him and said congratulations.

 

HY is well within his rights to do what he did. But that doesn't make it the right thing to do.

[RyDogg66]

Well if I found someones wedding ring in my front yard and they offered me $20 for it back. I guess the ring would be worth more to me so no chance I would give it back. Now I know that circumstances are different but they really aren't all that different. And to some people the feeling of doing the right thing would have to be accounted for something.

If I lost my wedding ring and someone found it, and they knew it was my wedding ring I would think they were a jerk if they expected me to pay $500 for it.

[Patrick425]

Give me a break. This isn't an issue of monetary value, it's sentimental. If i bought a book from you at a rumage sale, and your kids first grade artwork was in the book, legally it's mine. I bought it. But if you want it back does that mean that I should hold it up until you give me your family car. It's just some kids artwork to me, but it means more to you and your family. Jesus, in reality he should have just handed the ball over, got a picture with him and said congratulations.

What if my great grandfather was an artist of some note and his paintings were somewhat rare? What if you found one of his paintings in your attic? Obviously the painting would have more sentimental value to me and my family than it would to you. Would you feel obligated to just hand it over to me?

 

If I found the neighbor's wedding ring in my yard, I would not hold it ransom. Obviously, they did not intend to put the ring in my yard.

[PKBadger]

As Brewers fans, I'm sure we've all noticed how Doug Melvin has been able to cultivate good working relationships with GM's around the league and many are eager to trade with him. That's because DM understands how to construct a deal that is fair for both sides and makes both teams better. He's not always out to "win" the trade. There's a lesson there.

 

AS baseball fans we all see Scott Boras play one Gm off another in order to get the most for his clients. Doug does not cultivate his relationships with other GM's out of some sort of love of all things baseball of because of his need to make sure others get their fair share. He does it to keep options open for the future. Completely different situations.

 

Yes...and Boras is considered by many to be an evil pompous jerk, while DM is generally thought of as a pretty swell guy.

 

This only reinforces the point I was trying to make.

[Invader3K]

Well, Coghlan didn't intend to hit a home run to a ball hog who was going to rake him over the coals to get it back either.

[sargennm]

What if my great grandfather was an artist of some note and his paintings were somewhat rare? What if you found one of his paintings in your attic? Obviously the painting would have more sentimental value to me and my family than it would to you. Would you feel obligated to just hand it over to me?

 

If I found the neighbor's wedding ring in my yard, I would not hold it ransom. Obviously, they did not intend to put the ring in my yard.

You're scenario has a major flaw: The actual value of the ball is minimal. No more than what he initially offered HY for it. HY tried to play on the fact that it was SENTIMENTALLY more valuable to him and tried extorting more from him and the Marlins because of that fact. Again, it's not like they didn't offer him anything for it.