The Happy Youngster Strikes Again? Coghlan's Home Run Ball Held for Ransom

[brains and braun]

I agree with Pretend Astronaut. HY aside, I don't think someone should be criticized for what they collect. Be it a ball, bobblehead, music, art, or whatever. If he runs over kids, criticize him for that.

[berniebrewer4life]

I read that comment from him, and I'm pretty sure that all of the fine ladies and gentlemen of law enforcement would be ashamed by his antics and statements because it does not fit in with the ethics and values typically associated with the profession.

As someone who is less than a year away from finishing school and heading off to the academy, i can tell you, that's exactly right. He wasn't disrespecting law enforcement at all, the fact that HY brought it up is kinda silly.

[billyhallfan]

homer - it would be my understanding that he would want a hanley bat straight from the clubhouse (game used) that is worth a lot more than $150, I could be wrong, but I don't think he was looking for just a signed bat, I think he wanted game used

[PeaveyFury]

I don't have a problem with him asking for a high price in return for the ball, but just as with the Jenkins HR ball, he gets out of line when he asks for item(s) from players not involved in the situation. Ask for all the tickets or merchandise from the team you want, make Coghlan give you a bat, helmet, jersey, whatever, but asking for stuff from another player is probably both quite insulting to the player whose milestone you obtained, and also pretty embarrassing to him as well.

 

Also, again, this thread is on VERY shaky ground- I don't see the value in criticizing anyone for their hobby, but I think it's fair to criticize the method in which they do it if there's questions about that. But at no point is it ok to call someone a 'jerk', 'lame', etc otherwise this thread is going to be closed.

[Invader3K]

Also, maybe I have missed some posts here and there, but for the most part the only participation I have ever seen from HY on bfnet is to comment on or dispute/confirm accounts of his own involvement in catching balls, typically ones seen on TV.

Yeah, I was just thinking the same thing. He pretty much just pops up when his own name or something related is mentioned for the most part. Anyway, he has a blog dedicated to his escapades and this has been written about in the media a couple times now. The fact that he occasionally posts here shouldn't preclude this from discussion.

 

Like I said before, yes, it's technically his "right" to ask for extra things in return for a ball he catches. I also think it's the right of other people to form their own opinion of him based on those actions. The fact that he seems to use his profession as some kind of justification or shield from criticism doesn't exactly improve his image in my mind.

[Patrick425]

I didn't really get a chance to read the entire thread. I did read through the last 10 or 11 posts.

 

A) Not sure if it's true that HY runs over people (including kids to get baseballs), but I hate it when I see people do that. Also, I think if you get a ball, especially a foul ball, it's always a nice gesture to find a kid in the area and give the ball to him. I can understand wanting to keep a HR ball.

 

B) I'll never understand why pro baseball players are so stingy about giving something up in order to get the ball back.

[PlayerHader]

I'm not a collector. The guy got a valuable ball and initially asked for the moon (in some peoples' eyes) in exchange for its return. He ended up taking less than he originally asked for. I got no problem with it.

 

There seems to be a lot of pompousness on the board regarding this issue. Talk about blown out of proportion.

[Invader3K]

There seems to be a lot of pompousness on the board regarding this issue. Talk about blown out of proportion.

I don't think it's blowing it out of proportion if it seems to be discussing a known pattern displayed by someone.

[razzzorsharp]

1) People need to realize that everyone has verious hobbies. Just because you don't do it or don't have any interest in that specific hobby, that does not mean that hobby is pathetic (as some have said).

2) The ball is worth as much as the person who owns it, thinks it worth. I am sure the ball has some meaning to Happy as well so to get it away, he might have to get something a little in return. I remember when I caught my first and only homerun ball many years ago. I would not have traded it for 10 signed bats, as to me, that was something that was extremely valuable.

3) I would think as fans and media, and I am talking moreso the radio spots I heard, we would have better things to discuss with how hot the Brewers have been.

[Invader3K]

1) People need to realize that everyone has verious hobbies. Just because you don't do it or don't have any interest in that specific hobby, that does not mean that hobby is pathetic (as some have said).

 

- I don't think anyone has a problem with someone collecting balls. Again, it's the method being discussed here that many are taking issue with.

2) The ball is worth as much as the person who owns it, thinks it worth. I am sure the ball has some meaning to Happy as well so to get it away, he might have to get something a little in return. I remember when I caught my first and only homerun ball many years ago. I would not have traded it for 10 signed bats, as to me, that was something that was extremely valuable.

 

- This is true. But at the same time, you have to see where the player is coming from. It's a special moment for him. Supposedly he was planning on giving the ball to his mom as a gift. To make him go and ask for stuff from other players just seems to be exploiting your position. "I have something you want, I'm going to make you go well out of your way to get it back, because I can." Acting like that is going to leave a bad taste in people's mouths. I don't see why that is so hard to understand for a few here.

 

3) I would think as fans and media, and I am talking moreso the radio spots I heard, we would have better things to discuss with how hot the Brewers have been.

 

- I think we can discuss more than one thing at a time on this board. Do we really always have to walk on egg shells when we post here?

 

(fixed code --1992)

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Scott Boras would be proud of this guy. I'm sure he's looking into recruiting him.

[valpocrewsader]

I fully expect his friends to stick up for him, but if you aren't willing to see the other side, there's nothing to discuss.

 

I'm willing to see the other side, the other side just isn't tenable. Once the fan catches the ball, it's his to cherish and put amongst his collection. If someone else wants it to cherish -- be it the hitter, the hitter's mom, or some other collector -- it's going to take a deal to make that happen. Giving it up for a handshake and a cool story is fine if game balls don't mean that much to you, but if it's your passion you'd need to be a total patsy to cave easily.

 

But at the same time, you have to see where the player is coming from.

 

WHY? I just don't understand this position! Why is there any obligation to think about the poor ballplayers feelings and wishes at all?!? If you're a ballplayer and you jack your first homer into the stands, especially on the road, you gotta be thinking, "Dang, I wonder what it's going to take to get that one back" and then be prepared to negotiate in a fair (NOT STINGY) way. The fact that he came out of the dugout saying, "Are you going to give me MY ball or what?" is an outrage. He should be happy that HY didn't just head home at that very moment.

[Invader3K]

"WHY? I just don't understand this position! Why is there any obligation to think about the poor ballplayers feelings and wishes at all?!? If you're a ballplayer and you jack your first homer into the stands, especially on the road, you gotta be thinking, "Dang, I wonder what it's going to take to get that one back" and then be prepared to negotiate in a fair (NOT STINGY) way. The fact that he came out of the dugout saying, "Are you going to give me MY ball or what?" is an outrage. He should be happy that HY didn't just head home at that very moment."

 

There is no obligation. I guess if someone wants, they can go through life just thinking about themselves and how to take advantage of others around them whenever possible. However, there's such a thing as class and human decency. Considering how long it took to "negotiate" with HY to get the ball back, and how Coghlan had just finished playing a game and probably just wanted to finish up in the locker room and head home, I don't think it's surprising the player would ask if he was finally going to give it back at that point.

 

 

(added italics to quote --1992)

[JJHardy7]

I think it is funny when adults sit in the ball park with a glove on

 

I usually bring my glove to the park. I think it's just habit and at the Sounds games I'm usually in the front row...I bring it out of habit and I guess I don't want to get crushed if a foul ball comes screaming at me. It's happened a few times.

 

Again, I stated it has value to him because he enjoys collecting baseballs.

 

Fair enough. I used to collect when I was a kid at minor league games. To me, a ball was a ball though. I guess I just don't see the 'value' in that particular home run. To each their own.

 

No, I do think that the truth is somewhere in the middle.

 

Fair enough.

[strawbossisevil]

It´s called showing some humanity, thinking about others rather than solely thinking about "what´s in it for me". We all recognize that it´s Youngster´s passion to collect baseballs, and that´s fine. But he has to keep that passion in perspective. That ball has very deep sentimental value for the player since it was his first HR (just think of all of the years in the minor leagues working hard to reach that very defining moment). To ransom the ball, especially for articles that don´t belong to this young rookie, to drive a hard bargain for it is cruel, it´s losing perspective of the other´s point of view and solely looking to "get as much as I can" out of the situation. That´s greedy. He has every right to be greedy, since he caught the ball. But when he does act in a greedy, selfish way, people are going to recognize it as such and criticize him as such. That´s fair.

 

And by all accounts that wasn´t the first thing the Marlin´s player/organization said to him. The Marlins´ player was clearly frustrated that the ball he had hit for his first ever homerun was being held at ransom by a fan who was acting selfish and greedy (and who by all accounts justified this selfishness and greed by pointing to his profession). Those words sound like someone who is exasperated.

 

I agree with those on the board, that they should change the rules in ML baseball and make the balls ML property, even when they are hit out of the park. That would solve a lot of the problems that come from this type of thing.

[EdgarDiazRocks]

I really have no opinion on this matter other than after exhaustively researching both sides of the story it seems to be yet another case of an incident where the truth lies in the middle and both sides seem a little bit wrong, but with attitude. This seems to be happening more and more lately. Whatever happened to middle ground?

 

I do have a preconceived idea of "ballhawks" from my days of living in the Twin Cities and going to the last days of the TK Twins with 8,500 of my closest friends. There was this one portly fella who was there every game above the visitors dugout with several cases of baseballs and a fleet of about 7 dirty "cute" urchins whom he dispatched to beg players for balls. They then returned to him delivered the ball and received $5 cash and then were sent down for more while he cataloged who and where the ball came from and placed it in his case.

 

I was not impressed.

 

Being from Alaska and not going to my first in person MLB game until I was 22, I understand the lure of getting a game used ball (batting practice memorabilia is still a little mysterious to me), I don't think if I got close to one I would give it up to a nearby kid, I never got the chance when I was their age. But to me the kismet of having it delivered to where you're seated is about 95% of the thing.

[Patrick425]

That ball has very deep sentimental value for the player since it was his first HR (just think of all of the years in the minor leagues working hard to reach that very defining moment).

Well then, he should be more than willing to pony up for it. What's the minimum wage for a MLB player now? $400,000?

I agree with those on the board, that they should change the rules in ML baseball and make the balls ML property, even when they are hit out of the park. That would solve a lot of the problems that come from this type of thing.

Not sure if this would be the greatest marketing move for baseball. Fan ownership of a foul ball or HR has always been one of those things that adds to the experience of being at a baseball game. What does an average fan spend at a game? Sports is supposed to be about the fan experience. They are the paying customers and they are the reason professional sports exist.

[JJHardy7]

I guess another thing I want to add (which some have touched on) is that this was a guy's first HR. He's put a lot of time and effort into this. As a rookie, he probably doesn't have a lot of 'say' (if any) in the clubhouse.

 

I guess it also had to be strange for the Marlins to deal with a Marlins 'fan' who was asking for a lot. If he was wearing Brewers gear, maybe the story is different?

[pretendastronaut]

HY's post about the incident is on his blog this morning.

[Invader3K]

Well then, he should be more than willing to pony up for it. What's the minimum wage for a MLB player now? $400,000?

Why should the salary of anyone involved be a factor? Oh, because HY brought it up to bring sympathy to himself, I guess.

 

I don't think changing the rules regarding balls leaving the field should be necessary. Hopefully incidents like this are few and far between. If one person is causing issues often enough, maybe teams will take a look at whether they want that person in their park.

[RyDogg66]

So if the major league minimum were $45,000 then should Happy have to pay the player for the autograph that he was requesting on the ball he wanted in exchange?

 

Look, as pathetic as it may seem to some, nobody here is getting down on Happy for being a ballhawk. We all have weird hobbies that appeal to mostly ourselves. That clearly is not the issue here. The issue is that this was a story carried by the AP, SportsCenter, etc about a fan that was a bit out of place in treating this rookie's HR as if it were a ball that belonged in the Hall of Fame. I read Happy's blog, and when the Marlins employee came out to his seat with a bat from Coghlan that should have been it. The phrase "act like you've been there before" springs to mind, especially since Happy does this stuff every game. The issue here isnt ball hawking, it is the ransom asked for by the fan.

[Patrick425]

Why should the salary of anyone involved be a factor? Oh, because HY brought it up to bring sympathy to himself, I guess.

Why shouldn't it? Call it opportunistic if you want, but last I checked this was a capitalistic economic system we are living in.

 

If MLB doesn't want fans to keep or have ownership of HR balls, then maybe they should do away with bleacher seats. Oh wait, they would never do that.,That would cost them too much revenue. God forbid they fork over a tiny minuscule fraction of that revenue to retrieve a meaningful HR ball from one of the fans. We're not talking season ticket here...it's a few bats and some game tickets.

[BigJ]

I've been at many games at MP and been annoyed at the so called "ballhawks" standing in aisles and interupting other fans enjoyment of the game. It's been said that "it's just his hobby" "his passion". Well if that's the case, catch the ball, shut up, and go home. I have a feeling it's more than a hobby. He just wants the media attention. Ignore him, maybe we'll get lucky and he'll go away.

[strawbossisevil]

Just because he might have more money than you and I, doesn´t mean that he should be forced to "pony up" a ton of stuff for a ball that is very special to him, especially when ponying up means giving away another player´s game used stuff. It isn´t like he didn´t offer Happy anything for the ball. By all accounts he was offering a number of signed items. He wasn´t being overally stingy, or just expecting the fan to give it back to him for nothing.

 

Most human beings would have recognized the importance of the situation to the Marlins´player and not used that situation to swindle as much stuff out of him as possible. It´s called courtesy, it´s called kindness, it´s called empathy. All important aspects of how humans ought to treat one another. And those where not displayed by Happy in this situation. Once again, he had every right to ask what he did for the ball, but in doing so, he now has to accept the consequences of his actions (and how that shapes how people view him). And that´s fair.

 

As far as the ball thing is concerned, people could still keep the majority of balls hit into the stands, but were there to be one of special significance, ML could claim that ball (and probably have some universal gift (non-negotiable) to any such fan who would catch said ball).

[Invader3K]

Why shouldn't it? Call it opportunistic if you want, but last I checked this was a capitalistic economic system we are living in.

 

If MLB doesn't want fans to keep or have ownership of HR balls, then maybe they should do away with bleacher seats.

Yes, we do live in a capitalist economy. However, does that mean every time you have an opportunity you should be as exploitative as possible? How about just saying "Hey, I had a cool moment and got a little something in return", in exchange for happening to be lucky enough to catch a home run ball and get on TV? Why is it necessary for a grown family man to hoard baseballs and gouge players to get them back, when it will mean much more to the player than this "fan" who is only wearing the opposing team's gear in an effort to trick them?

 

The second line you quoted is just being a tad ridiculous in throwing out the ol' straw man argument. Obviously no one is saying fans shouldn't be able to sit out there and catch balls. I think it's just the sense of entitlement and "me first" that is rubbing a lot of people the wrong way.