The Happy Youngster Strikes Again? Coghlan's Home Run Ball Held for Ransom

[sheethead]

All I know is that HY's conduct in all of this tells me everything I need to know about him as a person. And I'm sorry to say, the tacit approval for his actions by some on this site, in some ways, does the same...

Sums up my feelings on the subject nicely. While it doesn't tell me everything I need to know about him, it paints a good portion of the picture. And honestly, if I could've bet on those here that would have his back, I would have won some nice prizes.

[razzzorsharp]

All I know is that HY's conduct in all of this tells me everything I need to know about him as a person. And I'm sorry to say, the tacit approval for his actions by some on this site, in some ways, does the same...

Sums up my feelings on the subject nicely. While it doesn't tell me everything I need to know about him, it paints a good portion of the picture. And honestly, if I could've bet on those here that would have his back, I would have won some nice prizes.

It's so very easy to judge a person or people without meeting them.

[trwi7]

He hit one in that afternoon game, that was not on TV, didn't he...that must have been it. I assume he got it back without incident.

Don't know for sure, but I would assume so. It landed in the Brewers' bullpen.

[jeffy]

He hit one in that afternoon game, that was not on TV, didn't he...that must have been it. I assume he got it back without incident.

Don't know for sure, but I would assume so. It landed in the Brewers' bullpen.

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/laugh.gif

 

I think we'd have heard about it if, say, Julio was holding out for signed bats from 3 other players.

[Invader3K]

"It's so easy to judge someone without meeting them."

 

Sounds like sheethead has met him, or at least seen enough of him in person to form an opinion that doesn't seem that far fetched.

 

I know some of you know HY fairly well, maybe are even friends with him, and I can see why people would defend him. I don't think it's unfair to say his actions here and in other incidents have left a bad impression on quite a few, though.

[strawbossisevil]

All I know is that HY's conduct in all of this tells me everything I need to know about him as a person. And I'm sorry to say, the tacit approval for his actions by some on this site, in some ways, does the same...

Agreed. And I never even thought about how his glove trick would actually be theft. What a shameful thing for a police officer to do. If the ball goes into the stands or gets tossed to you, that´s one thing. But to take a ball out of the bullpen or off the field, that is stealing. It´s true that we don´t know everything about the guy, and he may be friendly in person. But knowing what we know:

 

1) He acted greedy in the situation with both the Marlins´player and with Jenkins

2) He steals baseballs that are not legitimately his to take using rope and his glove (and trying to do so while making sure that security doesn´t see him - meaning he knows it´s wrong but does it anyway.)

3) He has pushed kids in the past to get baseballs (as witnessed by a few people on this board)

4) He moves around the ballpark, sitting in very expensive seats (often for the whole game) while paying for the cheap seats (as evidenced by his blog)

5) He lies and attempts to deceive players from other teams by wearing their apparel.

6) He sees his profession as meriting some sort of entitlement

7) His hogging of balls that could go to other fans who don´t get the chance to catch a ball

 

Knowing all of those things, I think it´s fair to call a spade a spade. You might not agree with all of the list, but you can´t tell me that at least a few of these things make him look pretty bad.

[PlayerHader]

I don't care how much Hanley Ramirez makes, or Coghlan makes, (or HY, for that matter). I simply don't understand why it's "ok" to ask a guy to ask someone else to surrender their personal property.

 

So you find someone's wedding ring on your property. Would it be reasonable to say "I found your wedding ring, I want 20 bucks, and I want you to get your neighbor's weed whacker for me too"?

That wedding ring argument holds no water. The ball was never Coghlan's. He just hit it out. The moment Happy caught it it was his property. This is more along the lines of someone running a raffle and then asking the winner to give the prize back. It shouldn't be expected, but should be negotiable.

[homer]

It´s true that we don´t know everything about the guy, and he may be friendly in person. But knowing what we know:

 

1) He acted greedy in the situation with both the Marlins´player and with Jenkins

2) He steals baseballs that are not legitimately his to take using rope and his glove (and trying to do so while making sure that security doesn´t see him - meaning he knows it´s wrong but does it anyway.)

3) He has pushed kids in the past to get baseballs (as witnessed by a few people on this board)

4) He moves around the ballpark, sitting in very expensive seats (often for the whole game) while paying for the cheap seats (as evidenced by his blog)

5) He lies and attempts to deceive players from other teams by wearing their apparel.

6) He sees his profession as meriting some sort of entitlement

7) His hogging of balls that could go to other fans who don´t get the chance to catch a ball

 

Knowing all of those things, I think it´s fair to call a spade a spade. You might not agree with all of the list, but you can´t tell me that at least a few of these things make him look pretty bad.

Well said, Strawboss. I was going to post something similar. He could be a great guy when he's not at the ballpark but the above list is enough for me to have a poor impression of him as a person.

[dadofandrew]

Now that he's admitted to theft and seat jumping on his blog, I have to believe his right to attend games is seriously at risk, especially if he's a season ticket holder. He has a serious sense of entitlement, and as pointed out above, has broken many written and unwritten rules, and, at best, showed himself to be totally clueless, as he portrays himself as a hero, while 91% of the poll takers on Ramblings thinks he's in need of help.

 

He's not a good person, his actions are offensive, and he, due to his fame, is now the face of the Brewers' fan to many. Nothing good has come out of this, and I sure hope he suffers from his admitted bad behavior soon.

[Thurston Fluff]

But Jamie, just because someone else is greedy doesn't mean you should be as well.

 

Just because this is how capitalism work doesn't mean you should always take advantage.

 

If you are paying for capitalists to make their money then those same capitalists want something from you what should be done? Play by some sort of ethics that has you losing money to them and asking nothing in return or playing by the same ethics they do? Maybe you don't have to play on a level field but I see nothing unethical in those who want to.

 

 

I don't care how much Hanley Ramirez makes, or Coghlan makes, (or HY, for that matter). I simply don't understand why it's "ok" to ask a guy to ask someone else to surrender their personal property.

 

I agree. Since it's Hy's property, obtained in a legal manner, it is unfair for Coghlan to ask for it back. It was never Coghlan's property. It ceased to be major league baseball property once it hit the stands.

 

All I know is that HY's conduct in all of this tells me everything I need to know about him as a person. And I'm sorry to say, the tacit approval for his actions by some on this site, in some ways, does the same...

 

I think there is a difference between approval and acceptance of different ideals. It isn't like all pro athletes are so morally superior in how they deal with fans and money. Do you know for sure Coghlan won't turn out to be one of those guys who refuses to give anything to fans without a price? Will he turn out to be one of those guys who only goes to autograph signings for a fee? If he does wouldn't it be justified to charge him something? Don't know who either of them are but to assume one is better than the other is a bit rich.

Maybe I'm a bit jaded with assuming all athletes are great to fans. Most of the time the dealings we've had have been fine but we've had a couple instances where Packers orders stuff from us and when we asked if they wanted to pay with cash or charge canceled the order because it wasn't free. One got pretty belligerent about us refusing to do something for free. Most aren't like that but judging some of us we can see more than one side says as much about you as it does about them. I'm not judging either of them personally. I would have asked for another ball and congratulated them on the milestone. Doesn't mean I think someone who feels differently about it is less of a person than I am.

[BrewCrewForever]

I'm interested to see if he posts in this thread and what he has to say.

[GormanHarvey]

Couple things-

 

A. As far as the picture with Coughlan goes, to me it just looks like it happened to be snapped when Coughlan was in the middle of speaking.

 

B. Big whoopity-do that HY gave a kid or 2 a couple of the umpteen balls he had. When you have that many balls it obviously makes it a little bit easier to give them away. If you go trick-or-treating and you get 25 Snickers and your friend didn't get any and wants one, wouldn't it be a little easier to give them 1 or 2 than if you had only gotten 1 or 2? Maybe he was trying to make himself feel a little less guilty about some of the other kids or people he has pushed out of the way to get one of his hoard of balls

 

C. To me it is pretty apparent that there are people on here that when put it a certain position they are inclined to do the decent, conscientious, and humane thing and on the flip-side there are others that are inclined to try to squeeze as much as humanly possible out of any opportunistic situation they may encounter, regardless of ethics. I think we all know which category HY falls into

[Thurston Fluff]

C. To me it is pretty apparent that there are people on here that when put it a certain position they are inclined to do the decent, conscientious, and humane thing and on the flip-side there are others that are inclined to try to squeeze as much as humanly possible out of any opportunistic situation they may encounter, regardless of ethics. I think we all know which category HY falls into

 

Humane? This is a baseball we are talking about right? Not someones sick puppy who needs medical attention and HY is demanding money or he won't treat it. I think you're getting carried away. This is a guy who wanted compensation for his property that another person wanted. So what if someone would have given it to him for less? If I gave my house away to a millionaire and someone wanted you to do the same is it unethical of you to refuse? After all I did it and feel good about giving my house away to someone I am a fan of. Never mind I gave it to someone who makes roughly 10 times my salary. I got to shake his hand and he likes me now. You could have that same feeling if you would just give your house away as well.

 

If you go trick-or-treating and you get 25 Snickers and your friend didn't get any and wants one, wouldn't it be a little easier to give them 1 or 2 than if you had only gotten 1 or 2?

 

Nobody gave Charlie Brown any of their snickers bars. Poor kid.

[RayKingsForemanGrill]

1) He acted greedy in the situation with both the Marlins´player and with Jenkins

2) He steals baseballs that are not legitimately his to take using rope and his glove (and trying to do so while making sure that security doesn´t see him - meaning he knows it´s wrong but does it anyway.)

3) He has pushed kids in the past to get baseballs (as witnessed by a few people on this board)

4) He moves around the ballpark, sitting in very expensive seats (often for the whole game) while paying for the cheap seats (as evidenced by his blog)

5) He lies and attempts to deceive players from other teams by wearing their apparel.

6) He sees his profession as meriting some sort of entitlement

7) His hogging of balls that could go to other fans who don´t get the chance to catch a ball

I'm not one to judge anyone, but that's pretty comprehensive and damning list.

[Thurston Fluff]

1) He acted greedy in the situation with both the Marlins´player and with Jenkins

 

Many people believe baseball players are all greedy so they are fair game to any who believe such. FWIW I don't have a problem with players wanting all they can get either. Just not gonna complain when the show is on the other foot.

 

 

5) He lies and attempts to deceive players from other teams by wearing their apparel.

 

Prince Fielder chose an agent who is known to play one GM off another. He will do anything an everything to get the extra dollar for his player. Does that make Prince a bad guy?

 

7) His hogging of balls that could go to other fans who don´t get the chance to catch a ball

 

Are these other fans not at the same game? What advantage does he have that makes it so others don't have a chance at the same ball he does?

 

The other points you made I agree are certainly are toolish behaviors. I don't know about others but I am not defending him as much as I am the act of negotiating for all he could get in this particular instance. Would you have a problem if a kid who got his first ball acted the same way? Maybe we need to separate the act from the person.

[joepepsi]

I've never been sure about this: is it against the rules to sit in a different seat than your ticket? I understand if the the ticket holder shows up you are obligated to move, but let's say halfway through the game a chunk of a section gets up and leave. Can you go sit there?

[JJHardy7]

Are these other fans not at the same game? What advantage does he have that makes it so others don't have a chance at the same ball he does?

 

If he's jumping seats, he has an advantage. This is one of the things that drives me nuts. You pay for a seat you sit in your seat. It's that simple. I highly doubt HY has gotten all that many baseballs from one given location. The HR ball he caught was probably not even in his seat. I know others do this too...but it doesn't make it right.

 

If you want a better seat, pay more money. It's that simple. If you want to sit in a few different spots during the game, buy more tickets for yourself at the game.

[Paul77]

I've never been sure about this: is it against the rules to sit in a different seat than your ticket? I understand if the the ticket holder shows up you are obligated to move, but let's say halfway through the game a chunk of a section gets up and leave. Can you go sit there?

They make an announcement about this before every game.

"In order to ensure all of our guests receive the full value of their ticket investment, only those persons with a ticket for a particular seat will be able to occupy that seat. Our staff checks tickets to safeguard each customer's investment in a ticketed seat. Individuals in an incorrect seat will be required to return to their ticketed seat location."

[jazzytrav]

Since it's Hy's property, obtained in a legal manner, it is unfair for Coghlan to ask for it back. It was never Coghlan's property. It ceased to be major league baseball property once it hit the stands.

 

I've seen this opinion thrown around a lot in this thread. I've also seen a lot of "it's the property of MLB". So unless someone has definitive proof of either side, I'm not sure how it can be used in any argument.

 

The stands are still the property of the team, and before it's put into play, the ball is the property of the team/MLB. I don't quite understand how a home run/foul ball is some magical change of ownership when the fan is still on the property of the team.

 

On the other hand, those that caught the milestone homers that we've seen in the past few years were getting a lot of money for them. Is it because they are the true owners or because MLB isn't concerned with getting into a trial about it and possibly alienating fans?

 

Point is, using this argument takes the discussion nowhere since everyone seems to disagree about it.

[Paul77]

jazzytrav wrote:

I've seen this opinion thrown around a lot in this thread. I've also seen a lot of "it's the property of MLB". So unless someone has definitive proof of either side, I'm not sure how it can be used in any argument.

 

The stands are still the property of the team, and before it's put into play, the ball is the property of the team/MLB. I don't quite understand how a home run/foul ball is some magical change of ownership when the fan is still on the property of the team. ..Point is, using this argument takes the discussion nowhere since everyone seems to disagree about it.

From the Miller Park Policy Guidelines:

 

"For your safety, please beware of bats and balls that may enter the seating areas. Guests are allowed to keep any baseball that enters the seating area as a souvenir; however, guests are not allowed to enter the playing area to retrieve balls or otherwise interfere with baseballs in play. Violators of this policy are subject to ejection from Miller Park."

[TheCrew07]

I'm not sure comparing HRs that define the game as whole to HRs that only have meaning to a specific player is the right thing to do. Clearly the balls that set the new records carried tremendous value on the open market, to MLB, and to the player. I think it's pretty fair to say that a players 1st HR ball only really matters to him, it has negligible value on the open market.

 

This isn't capitalism that's being discussed, it's greed, and more to the point it's extortion. The ball has a value slightly greater than it's original cost, that's it. The items asked for were far more valuable than the item HY possessed, not to much mention how classless it is to ask for items signed by other players, switch gear to swindle more balls, and so on. He's not even contrite, he insulted the player, the franchise, and the entire fan base with his subsequent comments in the national media. He's a self admitted seat jumping thief, he's embarassed many of his fellow fans by his actions, and I would have to think the organization on some level as well. It was different with Jenkins because it was in house, now we have repeating pattern of behavior that has national implications. Not to mention that he's member of this site and plays or played on the softball team, how does it reflect on bf.net, all of us, as a whole? I fail to see where HY has displayed any decency, honor, integrity, or class through any of his actions or subsequent comments to the media.

 

It's not a stretch to think that HY is self absorbed and carries a sense of entitlement about him either, I got a PM out of blue this winter about a post I had written 2 years ago after the Jenkins incident. Either he was sitting on that post for 2 years, or he was actually searching this forum for Happy Youngster references, my guess would be the latter, and then he attempted to call me out on it. I believe I stated that he was as embarrassing to the state of WI as that clown who's been going to college as long as I've been employed full time at one of the state schools down south(they were the 2 big stories at the time). I wanted him to go away then, and I stand by that opinion now.

 

He might be a good friend on a personal level, but I'd hope if one of my closest friends pulled something so far over the line like this I'd be objective enough about it to privately question him about it.

 

Remember the episode of Everyone Loves Raymond where Frank catches the milestone football and then holds it hostage? It's not so funny any more...

[GormanHarvey]

Humane? This is a baseball we are talking about right? Not someones sick puppy who needs medical attention and HY is demanding money or he won't treat it. I think you're getting carried away. This is a guy who wanted compensation for his property that another person wanted. So what if someone would have given it to him for less? If I gave my house away to a millionaire and someone wanted you to do the same is it unethical of you to refuse? After all I did it and feel good about giving my house away to someone I am a fan of. Never mind I gave it to someone who makes roughly 10 times my salary. I got to shake his hand and he likes me now. You could have that same feeling if you would just give your house away as well.

 

If you go trick-or-treating and you get 25 Snickers and your friend didn't get any and wants one, wouldn't it be a little easier to give them 1 or 2 than if you had only gotten 1 or 2?

 

Nobody gave Charlie Brown any of their snickers bars. Poor kid.

From Meriam-Webster's online dictionary:

 

Humane-

1

: marked by compassion, sympathy, or consideration for humans or animals

2

: characterized by or tending to broad humanistic culture : humanistic

 

I guess now Charlie Brown is a real human being. I don't think HY acted in a compassionate, considerate, or sympathetic manner towards Coughlan which is why I used the term. And your analogy of giving your house away to a millionaire leaves you feeling good about doing so in your scenario. I have a very, very hard time believing that HY feels truly good about how he handled the situation with Coughlan. And if he does...well, then he has bigger problems. Plus giving your house away to a millionaire is the opposite to HY's approach to giving up milestone HR's

[Paul77]

It's not a stretch to think that HY is self absorbed and carries a sense of entitlement about him either, I got a PM out of blue this winter about a post I had written 2 years ago after the Jenkins incident. Either he was sitting on that post for 2 years, or he was actually searching this forum for Happy Youngster references, my guess would be the latter, and then he attempted to call me out on it.

What's really sad about that is he did the same thing to me. One day I get a PM out of the blue about a post I made 18 months earlier. I remember thinking, "this guy has nothing better to do than search the forums for his name and then trying to call people out. A year and a half after the fact. Really?"

[razzzorsharp]

All I can go on is this incident. I know nothing of the past Jenkins incidents, stealing balls from the pen, or running over kids. Looking at this incident alone, I can't fathom the hate he is receiving.

[PeaveyFury]

I agree. Since it's Hy's property, obtained in a legal manner, it is unfair for Coghlan to ask for it back. It was never Coghlan's property. It ceased to be major league baseball property once it hit the stands.

 

You should re-read the post you quoted. He's saying it's out of line to ask that a third party (Ramirez) that has NOTHING to do with the situation at hand to surrender their personal property, and I agree.