Brad Nelson signs with Seattle

[JJHardy7]

The thing your missing is that by releasing Nelson, Iribarren gets an oppurtunity to prove something at the MLB level. He's a better player than Nelson, why shouldn't he get that oppurtunity? Nelson will be a minor leafue FA after this year, the Brewers could pick him up if they want, but they will likely pick up one of the several minor FAs that would profile better as an MLB bench player.

 

He's getting his chance because Weeks is on the DL.

[Never Outhustled]

He's getting his chance because Weeks is on the DL.

The plan was to send Gamel down after the next series. Iribarren obviously was to be the replacement.

[JJHardy7]

The plan was to send Gamel down after the next series. Iribarren obviously was to be the replacement.

 

How can you say that? Cat is/was the replacement for Nelson. You can't pretend the Weeks injury was part of this plan. There were blogs on the JS indicating that when the time for a decision on Cat came it very well would be Nelson moved...not he Hurricane. Without the Weeks injury, I don't see Iribarren in Milwaukee. That's not a knock on him though.

[Never Outhustled]

How can you say that? Cat is/was the replacement for Nelson.

Now your making my argument for me. Nelson is way down on the depth chart, we have lots of better options, with more developing.

[Ennder]

If I lose a $20 bill, it won't cripple me. I'll be fine and I probably won't miss it much. However, I don't plan on throwing $20 bills away simply because losing one won't hurt me.

 

Nelson has some value. In the grand scheme of things, his loss probably won't cripple the Brewers.

 

Nelson's value is more like a penny and I throw those away all the time. Guys like Nelson are a dime a dozen, you can pick them up for league minimum every offseason.

[JJHardy7]

Now your making my argument for me. Nelson is way down on the depth chart, we have lots of better options, with more developing.

 

My point is losing someone on the 25-man so Gamel can sit on the bench is just not smart. To me, it shows a lack of planning. How do we have 'lots of better options'? If that was the case, Cat wouldn't have been signed. I'll just agree to disagree X. I'm not saying that Nelson will be a starter or anything like that. I just think it was a strange move to make. Why even put him on the 25-man to start the season?

[MJLiverock]

Didn't the Brewers basically put Nelson out there once or twice already and no on claimed him so he ended up staying with the Brewers this spring. The hand wringing that we got nothing for him was most likely due to there not being anything to get for him. Teams have had shots at him before and didn't take him and even now that Seattle took him they stuck him back in the minors. I don't recall people being this worked up about losing Anderson or McGruder or whatever fringe ML player that gets dropped by teams all the time.

[JJHardy7]

The hand wringing that we got nothing for him was most likely due to there not being anything to get for him.

 

I just want to make it clear that I'm not upset that we didn't get anything for him. I just think it's a move that didn't have a plan. Getting rid of anyone on the 25-man so Gamel sits on the bench to me does not indicate the team has a plan. Calling Gamel up period to sit on the bench is a bad move. Losing a guy because of that seems like a lack of direction.

[Never Outhustled]

I just think it's a move that didn't have a plan. Getting rid of anyone on the 25-man so Gamel sits on the bench to me does not indicate the team has a plan.

They did have a very clear plan. They wanted to make their bench better and ease Gamel into the Majors before he DH's in interleague play.

 

You can disagree with that plan, but the Brewers are too busy trying to win the WS to listen to such a trivial complaint.

 

 

Also, the Brewers have found a major upgrade over Nelson. Jody Gerut's career MLB OPS is about the same as Nelson's career MILB OPS, and Gerut is a good defensive OF.

[JJHardy7]

They did have a very clear plan. They wanted to make their bench better and ease Gamel into the Majors before he DH's in interleague play.

 

Easing him by sitting him? Makes sense. He's been in the bigs before. It's not like he's a little kid that has to be shown how to get to the ballpark or hit a baseball. He should be playing everyday...period. Guys like Duffy should be sitting on the bench.

 

You can disagree with that plan, but the Brewers are too busy trying to win the WS to listen to such a trivial complaint.

 

So they're in the playoffs and in the WS in May? Good to know. Moves like this are why teams either get in or don't win a few games. I sometimes forget X that you claim to be always right. WS it is. It's nice to have you be condescending also.

 

Also, the Brewers have found a major upgrade over Nelson. Jody Gerut's career MLB OPS is about the same as Nelson's career MILB OPS, and Gerut is a good defensive OF.

 

I agree. Gerut is better than Nelson. The problem is this deal happened today...not last week. Again, what was the plan? Have Gamel rot on the bench as he was making huge strides at 3B? I just see zero logic in that 'plan'. If they made this trade today and Nelson was let go because of the trade, that makes sense. That is a plan. Putting your best hitting prospect on the bench is not a plan. He was making huge strides with Money. I still get the feeling that Gamel will be shipped back to AAA after all this...which would point out again the Brewers really don't have a plan with him. He should be starting over Hall. If he's in the bigs, let him play...and don't lose a player of the 25-man because you lack a plan.

[JoeHova]

They had a plan. The plan was to remove Nelson from the team and their plan was successful. No real reason to worry more about it, I don't think. The fact that his value was minimal to non-existent was proven when no other team claimed him. I don't understand why the fact that Nelson was on the 25 man matters at all. Trent Durrington was on the 25 man at various points. It means nothing other than that a team is giving a guy a shot.

[monty57]

JJ, I agree with you, but I think maybe there's a different tack to take. Forget all about Nelson, which I don't really think either you or I care too much about losing and try this:

 

The Brewers have completely misused Gamel for the past few weeks. He's got six at bats and one game at third. How in the heck is he getting any better by rotting on the bench? Macha will seemingly find any excuse not to play him. If this is the way Macha is going to misuse his top prospects, I would rather have anyone, even Brad Nelson, on the team then see someone of Gamel's caliber waste away.

 

They had a plan. The plan was to remove Nelson from the team and their plan was successful.

 

Then why not bring up Jeffress to replace Julio and only pitch once every two weeks. Escobar's better than Iribarren, why not bring him up to sit the bench behind the McGehee/Counsell platoon? If "the plan" is to misuse a top prospect simply to rid the team of a bench player, then why not go all out? There are plenty of players in the minor leagues who are better than bench players in the majors. It just seems to me to be a mistake to hamper their development simply for two or three at-bats per week.

[Never Outhustled]

So they're in the playoffs and in the WS in May?

Games in May count just as much as games in September. Last year proves that every game counts.

 

Easing him by sitting him? Makes sense.

He's gotten ABs. Just because the couple of games they has where they didn't need a PH happened to be his 2nd and 3rd game here, you got your undies in a bundle. He gets to work with Willie Randolf and Dale Sveam here, don't discount that. He's not wasting away. Did this approach ruin Prince Fielder?

 

I still get the feeling that Gamel will be shipped back to AAA after all this...which would point out again the Brewers really don't have a plan with him.

That was they're plan all along. He's here for interleague play. The Weeks injury might change that, we'll see.

 

and don't lose a player of the 25-man because you lack a plan.

They were ready to cut Nelson. If they call up Iribarren, then replace him with Gamel for interleague play, they can't recall Iribarren for Gamel after the Minnesota series. Iribarren would have had to stay in the minors 10 days. Considering Gamel is a better PH option than Nelson and iribarren, and we were starting a series for 1st place against the Cards, it made perfect sense to just call Gamel up a week early.

[JoeHova]

Then why not bring up Jeffress to replace Julio and only pitch once every two weeks. Escobar's better than Iribarren, why not bring him up to sit the bench behind the McGehee/Counsell platoon? If "the plan" is to misuse a top prospect simply to rid the team of a bench player, then why not go all out? There are plenty of players in the minor leagues who are better than bench players in the majors. It just seems to me to be a mistake to hamper their development simply for two or three at-bats per week.

Gamel is 23. Prince was 21 when they did it to him and he lived through it. I was upset at the time but it doesn't seem to have hurt Prince. They're going to play Mat more starting tomorrow. I don't think a week or two as a part-time player will have a deleterious long-term effect on Mat's development.

[TheCrew07]

deleterious

I have nothing to add other than what an excellent word...

[kramnoj]

Easing him by sitting him? Makes sense. He's been in the bigs before. It's not like he's a little kid that has to be shown how to get to the ballpark or hit a baseball.

 

It obviously makes sense to Melvin. You obviously don't like it, insist on saying it's wrong, even though it's hard to show what negative effects have resulted from it. Gamel isn't a little kid that needs to get shown how to get to the ballpark, but he did reportedly have an issue waking up on time this spring, and there seem to been some communication issues. We don't know the full details, nor should we, but we should believe that Melvin has a reason for what he has done.

 

As far as the last part of the sentence I quoted, you're right. He hasn't forgotten how to hit a baseball. That's why it's ok to bring him up and not play him everyday.

[JJHardy7]

The Brewers have completely misused Gamel for the past few weeks. He's got six at bats and one game at third. How in the heck is he getting any better by rotting on the bench? Macha will seemingly find any excuse not to play him. If this is the way Macha is going to misuse his top prospects, I would rather have anyone, even Brad Nelson, on the team then see someone of Gamel's caliber waste away.

 

Agreed. I guess I understand views here, but I've seen first hand parts of last year and more this year of Mat's big improvement with his glove. I think it's a flat out joke to remove him from that learning opportunity. It could've been Nelson, Duffy, Julio, etc. To me, it's a huge deal when an organization has a poor plan for their top hitting prospect and also lose a cheap bench option in the process. Gamel has made big time strides and he doesn't need to have his hand held in the 'bigs'. He's a big-time hitter. 'Getting his feet' wet is wrong too. This is a new formula for top hitting prospects in the Brewers organization. You either give Gamel the job or send him to AAA. And kramnoj Gamel will play now...but we know he can hit. I don't doubt that one bit and I really don't care about it because it's not an issue. The issue is his defense. Sitting on the bench doesn't help that nor does losing a player so Gamel can get his 'butt wet' by sitting on the bench. Having him on the bench while Hall is back to being Hall just doesn't make sense to me. If Yost would've said, 'I made a promise to Bill' there would be a thread 10 pages long about it. If the Brewers want to win X, they'd be better off finding a plan for Gamel.

 

There are all these 'options' for bench spots yet the Brewers were maybe the only team to offer Cat and made a trade today for depth. It's clear the Brewers are pretty worried about their bench. The easiest answer is to give Gamel the starting job at 3B and move Hall to super sub.

 

For the record, I think Gamel is the 3rd best hitter on the team. I don't know if he has the power that Braun has, but I do think that Braun and Gamel will be the faces of the franchise going forward. Let's not keep one on the bench. You either develop the player or you start the player. Gamel is probably one of the best bench players in all of baseball now...problem is that hurts his value and it's not going to make a big difference right now if he's on the bench in Milwaukee or anywhere else in terms of wins. For his development, he should be playing everyday.

[kramnoj]

but we know he can hit. I don't doubt that one bit and I really don't care about it because it's not an issue. The issue is his defense.

 

Gamel has been playing 3B for years. Is he really going to regress so much because he hasn't been in the field for the past week or so?

[monty57]

This is who Gamel is sitting behind:

 

Bill Hall

 

2007 Games 136 AB 452 R 59 H 115 2B 35 3B 0 HR 14 RBI 63 TB 192 BB 40 K 128 SB 4 CS 5 OBP .315 SLG .425 AVG .254 OPS .740

2008 Games 128 AB 404 R 50 H 91 2B 22 3B 1 HR 15 RBI 55 TB 160 BB 37 K 124 SB 5 CS 6 OBP .293 SLG .396 AVG .225 OPS .689

2009 Games 36 AB 116 R 13 H 28 2B 8 3B 0 HR 4 RBI 10 TB 48 BB 12 K 37 SB 1 CS 0 OBP .313 SLG .414 AVG .241 OPS .727

 

Keeping in mind that he has sat a lot against RH pitchers over the past few years, as bad as these numbers are, they'd be worse if he hadn't been semi-platooned. Billy's not the type of player that should be keeping a player like Gamel on the bench. If Gamel's up, he should be starting most of the games at 3B, using Billy against lefties and as a late inning defensive replacement when needed.

[TooLiveBrew]

I don't recall people being this worked up about losing Anderson or McGruder or whatever fringe ML player that gets dropped by teams all the time.

 

My beef on this has never been that we lost an amazingly talented young player. It's that we let a solid, 1st-PH off the bench LH bat with pop, walk for nothing. And then on top of that, this same player would likely have been able to fill said role for several seasons on the cheap.

 

At least when we shipped off Gross we got an arm back our way. Cutting Nelson loose for nothing still doesn't sit well with me, but it's water under the bridge at this point.