Brad Nelson signs with Seattle

[joepepsi]

The move was impulsive.

[JJHardy7]

I really worry that this is going to play out like the Balfour situation. I think it's pretty obvious that the Brewers are already missing what Nelson brings to the table.

 

At least we got McClung for Balfour. Dropping Nelson for nothing was a bad move.

 

They should've just waited for the AL series. There was zero good reason for Gamel to be in Milwaukee (since they were just having him sit on the bench)...until the Weeks injury.

[Never Outhustled]

Iribarren has hit just as well in AAA this year as Nelson did last year. Iribarren has a higher career OPS. Plus, Iribarren is more versatile, and offers speed on the bases. I have no use for a fringe player who plays 25 pounds overweight. That really limited him in the OF.

 

We're better off now. Nelson was fine until something better came along, and we have more where that came from.

[JJHardy7]

Iribarren has hit just as well in AAA this year as Nelson did last year. Iribarren has a higher career OPS. Plus, Iribarren is more versatile, and offers speed on the bases. I have no use for a fringe player who plays 25 pounds overweight. That really limited him in the OF.

 

We're better off now. Nelson was fine until something better came along, and we have more where that came from.

 

I get your point X, but there's no reason to compare Nelson to Iribarren. My point is they gave Nelson up to have Gamel sit on the bench. That doesn't make any sense. You don't get rid of a young, cheap bench player in order to have your best hitting prospect on the bench. That's not smart.

 

I also think Nelson's weight has zero issue here and I'm not sure why your brought that up. We've all seen Prince Fielder the past few years...

[Never Outhustled]

I also think Nelson's weight has zero issue here and I'm not sure why your brought that up. We've all seen Prince Fielder the past few years

Princes weight has hurt him bigtime defensively. Also, with Nelson I specifically mentioned the fact that he a fringe player, theres lots of guys like him, he needs to maximize himself.

 

My point is they gave Nelson up to have Gamel sit on the bench. That doesn't make any sense. You don't get rid of a young, cheap bench player in order to have your best hitting prospect on the bench. That's not smart

Yeah, you've said that a few times now, and haven't gotten much support with it. The Brewers called up Gamel because he makes them better. The Brewers are trying to win.

I get your point X, but there's no reason to compare Nelson to Iribarren.

Your saying your mad because we lost Nelson because we cut him for Gamel, I'm saying we cut him because we had guys that are better options. If Nelson had accepted assignment, he still would not have gotten the call over Iribarren. If this was 2003, we'd need Nelson, but we're deeper than that now. Nelson is a better fit for an AL team, or at least a team that has a good 4th OF so Nelson would only be needed to PH.

[SenatorShriv]

I'll really miss having Brad Nelson in the system. He part of the first crew of prospects that got me really excited about following the minor leagues and got me re-excited about baseball. The debates about how to handle our glut of first basemen was a fun one (Sexson, Overbay, Fielder, Nelson, Hart, etc...) I spoke with Nelson at several different points over his career and he was always very nice. It seemed like that hamate injury really set him back about two seasons but I never gave up hope that he could be a productive role player at the big league level. It's too bad it won't be with the Brewers, but hopefully he finds a big league team that will give him a chance to flourish. I'll be rooting for him (whenever he isn't playing the Brewers.)

[monty57]

I agree, JJ. Gamel got one PA in a week before his start yesterday. I don't think keeping Nelson for that week and leeting Gamel play full-time in AAA would've been a bad idea. I don't see Nelson as much more than a decent bat off the bench and LH relief for the occasional day Braun or Hart need a rest, but why get rid of him for nothing when we had him cheap for the next six years.

 

Right now, if Hart or Braun go down with an injury Duffy will play every day. How's that effect our playoff chances? Cattalanato (? sp) may be ready soon. It's debateable whether he'll be a better option than Nelson right now, but he has no future value. Currently our best hitters in AAA are Gwynn and Bourgeois, as Gillespie and Katin aren't doing much right now. I guess my point is that after waiting eight or so years for Nelson to heal up and return to form, we gave him up for nothing for no apparent reason other than a slow start. I would guess that at some point in the next six years we'll wish we had a LH bat with some power on the bench.

 

Again, he's not a star, and this probably won't bite us too much, but I just don't see the logic behind making the move at this time.

[Never Outhustled]

Right now, if Hart or Braun go down with an injury Duffy will play every day.

I don't think that entirely true. Iribarren is a much better defensive OF than Nelson, and has a higher career minor league OPS. Gillespie is heating up right now too.

 

Nelson has had 1 season with an OPS over 800 since 2002. He's replacable. Nelson at his best is a 750 OPS guy, and he's a bad defenive OF.

[JJHardy7]

Princes weight has hurt him bigtime defensively. Also, with Nelson I specifically mentioned the fact that he a fringe player, theres lots of guys like him, he needs to maximize himself.

 

Why do you point out Nelson's weight though?

 

Yeah, you've said that a few times now, and haven't gotten much support with it. The Brewers called up Gamel because he makes them better. The Brewers are trying to win.

 

I have gotten support. Was losing Brad worth one Gamel PA? I can't imagine it is. Now if they moved Nelson in order to get Gamel on the roster to start...that's a different story. That wasn't the original 'plan'. I don't see how adding Gamel as a PH compared to Nelson makes them that much better. Putting Gamel's bat in the everyday lineup does make them better.

 

Your saying your mad because we lost Nelson because we cut him for Gamel, I'm saying we cut him because we had guys that are better options. If Nelson had accepted assignment, he still would not have gotten the call over Iribarren. If this was 2003, we'd need Nelson, but we're deeper than that now. Nelson is a better fit for an AL team, or at least a team that has a good 4th OF so Nelson would only be needed to PH.

 

I'm saying there was no reason to lose Nelson for one PA for Gamel. I'd much rather have seeing Casey go than Brad. Maybe I'm not clear here. If you call up Gamel and lose Nelson, I would hope it's because you want Gamel to start everyday. That wasn't the plan. The plan was for Gamel to sit on the bench until the AL games. Why not call up Gamel right before the AL games? Having him sit on the bench was pretty dumb and losing Nelson was even worse. If they wait a few days, they can add Gamel and still have Nelson.

 

I don't think losing Nelson is the end of the world or will cost the team the playoffs. I just think it was a move to make a move or something along that line. There was no plan. At the rate Gamel was improving his defense, there's just no reason to have him sit on the bench.

[JJHardy7]

I don't think that entirely true. Iribarren is a much better defensive OF than Nelson, and has a higher career minor league OPS. Gillespie is heating up right now too.

 

Nelson has had 1 season with an OPS over 800 since 2002. He's replacable. Nelson at his best is a 750 OPS guy, and he's a bad defenive OF.

 

The Hurricane would not be starting in the OF for a long time in Milwaukee if there's an injury. He's not ready defensively for that. My guess is TGJ is called up.

[Never Outhustled]

Why do you point out Nelson's weight though?

Did you read my original post. The reason still is because it hurts him defensively in the OF. If he was 25 pounds lighter, he might have gotten to a few balls. Would you want Mike Cameron playing with a 25 pound weight on his back?

 

The Hurricane would not be starting in the OF for a long time in Milwaukee if there's an injury. He's not ready defensively for that.

He's far better defensively in the OF than Nelson is. In fact he's above average for a corner guy.

[JJHardy7]

Did you read my original post. The reason still is because it hurts him defensively in the OF. If he was 25 pounds lighter, he might have gotten to a few balls. Would you want Mike Cameron playing with a 25 pound weight on his back?

 

I did. I just don't think that's a reason as to why Nelson can't be a productive PH. I also don't think he's as overweight as Prince is either though. I've said all along that Nelson could fit in the OF and as a role player. His defense is good enough to give Braun or Hart a day off each week if that was the plan. The problem might be the Brewers had two #5 OFs and lack a true #4.

 

He's far better defensively in the OF than Nelson is. In fact he's above average for a corner guy.

 

That's high praise for a player that's played around 10% of their games in the OF before this year and for a player that played little OF this year. I'm not saying he'd be a bad defender in the OF...I am saying he doesn't have enough experience out there to replace an OF at the MLB level for a long period.

[monty57]

I guess the best analogy for me is this:

 

If I lose a $20 bill, it won't cripple me. I'll be fine and I probably won't miss it much. However, I don't plan on throwing $20 bills away simply because losing one won't hurt me.

 

Nelson has some value. In the grand scheme of things, his loss probably won't cripple the Brewers. However, throwing him away for no reason seems silly. Losing him may have some effect on the Brewers this year, as we have no idea how the season will play out. We now have foregone the possibility that he may heat up and win us a game or two. We have also lost the future value of Nelson. Six years at near-league-minimum pay for a decent LH bat has some value. Maybe we'll have better options, maybe not. Again, we don't know how the future will play out, and we just gave away some value for nothing.

 

As far as Iribarren, I see your point. He's hit some and plays better defense than Nelson. Fine. Call him up as the backup that will sit on the bench and not play. At least I see some logic there... Nelson isn't cutting it in a pinch hitting role, so we'll call up someone who's similar but has a hotter bat at the moment. I still wouldn't want to lose Nelson over this move, but it shows some thought. Bringing up Gamel so that he can sit on the bench doesn't make sense to me. I would think he'd be better off hitting and playing the field every day in Nashville.

 

While at the time of the move, Melvin had no way of knowing that Weeks would get hurt, but the injury shows why it wasn't a good move. We've now thrown Nelson away when we could have kept him if we'd have waited another week. The only way this makes sense is if Melvin doesn't believe Nelson has any value, but that can't be the case, as we've held on to him for eight years.

[MJLiverock]

But if your wallet only holds 25 bills and you already have 25 bills equal to or greater than the $20 you have to leave something out. Espeically if you have already left that $20 bill laying on the ground for anyone to pick up and not one person picked it up last time.

[JoeHova]

I don't think the Brewers regret losing Nelson. Wouldn't he have rather signed with the Brewers to re-take a spot on the 25 man if they were offering it instead of signing a minor league deal with Seattle where he'll be 5th or so on the AAA 1st base depth chart? If the Brewers regretted losing him, they could have just re-signed him. Similarly, if anybody thought he was a good bet to be a "decent" LH bat, wouldn't someone have claimed him on waivers? Or maybe offered him a major league spot?

 

losing Nelson isn't like losing a $20 bill. It's more like throwing out an old washing machine. Can it be salvaged? Maybe. Will anybody lose sleep over the fact that someone else is getting some use out of their unwanted old washer? Doubtful.

[Mass Haas]

There may be some overlap here, bear with me, but where are the glaring mistakes Doug Melvin has made in removing players from the 40-man roster in his tenure? Don't lose sleep over Brad, although we wish him well...

 

Nelson , Brad	2009-05-14	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Free Agent
Gwynn Jr , Tony	2009-04-03	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Nashville
Lamb , Mike	2009-04-01	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Free Agent
Littleton , Wes	2009-03-25	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Nashville
Choate , Randy	2008-07-10	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Nashville
Turnbow , Derrick	2008-05-09	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Nashville
Munson , Eric	2008-03-26	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Nashville
Anderson , Drew	2008-01-15	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Nashville
Jones , Mike	2007-10-15	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Free Agent
Spurling , Chris	2007-10-05	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Nashville
Stocker , Mel	2007-10-05	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Nashville
Balfour , Grant	2007-03-27	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Nashville
Rivera , Mike	2007-03-27	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Nashville
Salas , Marino	2007-03-26	Outrighted	Nashville	Nashville
Closser , J.D.	2007-03-21	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Nashville
Hendrickson , Ben	2007-03-18	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Nashville
Spurling , Chris	2006-10-06	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Nashville
Perkins , Vince	2006-10-04	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Nashville
Barnwell , Chris	2006-09-26	Outrighted	Nashville	Nashville
Demaria , Chris	2006-09-26	Outrighted	Nashville	Nashville
Moeller , Chad	2006-07-10	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Nashville
Simpson , Allan	2006-06-23	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Nashville
Winkelsas , Joe	2006-06-20	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Nashville
Nelson , Brad	2006-06-15	Outrighted	Huntsville	Huntsville
Mabeus , Chris	2006-06-02	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Nashville
Lehr , Justin	2006-05-25	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Nashville
Sorensen , Zach	2006-03-26	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Nashville
Pena , Luis	2005-10-07	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Nashville
Santana , Julio	2005-10-07	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Nashville
Santos , Victor	2005-10-07	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Nashville
Magruder , Chris	2005-10-07	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Nashville
Durrington , Trent	2005-10-07	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Nashville
Housman , Jeff	2005-08-28	Outrighted	Nashville	Nashville
Phelps , Tommy	2005-07-15	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Nashville
Diggins , Ben	2005-03-29	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Brevard Co
Pratt , Andy	2005-03-18	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Nashville
Phelps , Travis	2004-10-05	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Nashville
Harper , Jesse	2004-10-05	Outrighted	Huntsville	Nashville
Ford , Ben	2004-10-05	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Nashville
Durrington , Trent	2004-10-05	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Nashville
Johnson , Mark L.	2004-10-05	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Nashville
Erickson , Matt	2004-09-23	Outrighted	Nashville	Nashville
Ford , Matt	2004-08-20	Outrighted	Huntsville	Huntsville
Ford , Ben	2004-07-02	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Indianapolis
Liefer , Jeff	2004-06-28	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Indianapolis
Phelps , Travis	2004-04-21	Outrighted	Indianapolis	Indianapolis
Martinez , Luis	2004-02-23	Outrighted	Milwaukee	St Louis
Childers , Matt	2003-12-19	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Indianapolis
Cruz , Enrique	2003-12-09	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Indianapolis
Machado , Alejandro	2003-12-09	Outrighted	Indianapolis	Indianapolis
Quevedo , Ruben	2003-10-01	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Indianapolis
Foster , John	2003-10-01	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Indianapolis
Zoccolillo , Peter	2003-10-01	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Indianapolis
Conti , Jason	2003-10-01	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Indianapolis
Smith , Mark	2003-10-01	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Indianapolis
McKay , Cody	2003-09-04	Outrighted	Indianapolis	Indianapolis
Conti , Jason	2003-08-22	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Indianapolis
Manning , David	2003-08-10	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Indianapolis
Campos , Francisco	2003-05-14	Outrighted	Indianapolis	Indianapolis
Guerrero , Cristian	2003-05-14	Outrighted	High Desert	Seattle
Conti , Jason	2003-04-09	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Indianapolis
Rigdon , Paul	2002-10-17	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Indianapolis
Thompson , Ryan	2002-10-09	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Indianapolis
Christenson , Ryan	2002-10-09	Outrighted	Milwaukee	Indianapolis

[Mass Haas]

Pena , Luis	2009-02-15	Lost on waivers	Milwaukee	Seattle
Dillon , Joe	2008-10-31	Lost on waivers	Milwaukee	Oakland
Anderson , Drew	2008-01-18	Lost on waivers	Milwaukee	Cincinnati
Aquino , Greg	2007-12-14	Lost on waivers	Milwaukee	Baltimore
Liriano , Pedro	2004-12-07	Lost on waivers	Milwaukee	Philadelphia
Bausher , Tim	2004-06-07	Lost on waivers	Milwaukee	Colorado

[Mass Haas]

Morlan , Eduardo	2009-03-17	Designated for Assignment	Milwaukee	Nashville
Dillon , Joe	2008-10-29	Designated for Assignment	Milwaukee	Free Agent
Nix , Laynce	2008-09-10	Designated for Assignment	Milwaukee	Free Agent
Palmisano , Lou	2008-09-05	Designated for Assignment	Brevard Co	Brevard Co
Gardner , Richie	2008-09-01	Designated for Assignment	Nashville	Nashville
Tavarez , Julian	2008-06-19	Designated for Assignment	Milwaukee	Free Agent
Turnbow , Derrick	2008-05-02	Designated for Assignment	Milwaukee	Nashville
Wise , Matt	2007-12-11	Designated for Assignment	Milwaukee	Free Agent
Mench , Kevin	2007-12-10	Designated for Assignment	Milwaukee	Free Agent
Nix , Laynce	2007-12-05	Designated for Assignment	Milwaukee	Free Agent
Sarfate , Dennis	2007-09-04	Designated for Assignment	Nashville	Nashville
Spurling , Chris	2007-08-15	Designated for Assignment	Milwaukee	Free Agent
Dessens , Elmer	2007-08-04	Designated for Assignment	Milwaukee	Nashville
Balfour , Grant	2007-07-27	Designated for Assignment	Milwaukee	Milwaukee
Moeller , Chad	2006-07-06	Designated for Assignment	Milwaukee	Nashville
Simpson , Allan	2006-06-20	Designated for Assignment	Milwaukee	Nashville
Lehr , Justin	2006-05-23	Designated for Assignment	Milwaukee	Nashville
Fernandez , Jared	2006-05-16	Designated for Assignment	Nashville	Nashville
Branyan , Russell	2006-01-09	Designated for Assignment	Milwaukee	Nashville
Bottalico , Ricky	2005-07-27	Designated for Assignment	Milwaukee	Nashville
Mosquera , Julio	2005-06-13	Designated for Assignment	Milwaukee	Nashville
Glover , Gary	2005-06-06	Designated for Assignment	Milwaukee	Nashville
Magruder , Chris	2004-11-29	Designated for Assignment	Milwaukee	Free Agent
Kinney , Matt	2004-08-06	Designated for Assignment	Milwaukee	Indianapolis
Magruder , Chris	2004-07-26	Designated for Assignment	Milwaukee	Indianapolis
Johnson , Kade	2004-06-04	Designated for Assignment	Huntsville	Huntsville
Bausher , Tim	2004-06-03	Designated for Assignment	Huntsville	Huntsville
Hernandez , Adrian	2004-05-11	Designated for Assignment	Milwaukee	Indianapolis
Machado , Alejandro	2003-12-01	Designated for Assignment	Milwaukee	Milwaukee
Matthews , Mike	2003-03-26	Designated for Assignment	Milwaukee	San Diego
Mieses , Jose	2002-10-11	Designated for Assignment	Milwaukee	Indianapolis

[Never Outhustled]

Outstanding work Mass Hass. It really shows the people running things here know their business.

[JJHardy7]

Outstanding work Mass Hass. It really shows the people running things here know their business.

 

I agree with X for the most part (it is great work Mass no doubt). I think the point is for a small market team you need to fill spots say 22 - 25 with cheap players. You can spend more money on other positions. Nelson was fairly young, cheap, and just raked in ST. It's not like he's been the worst hitter in the world to make the bigs. I'd rather have a guy like him as my PH and once in awhile fill in at other spots. You could also argue that Nix could be a mistake -- he was somewhat given a chance though. I'm not really upset over the guys we've lost in terms of guys starting. I do think though you need to keep some of these guys for bench type roles or you have to pay veterans to come in. The board here was somewhat upset over signing Counsell to a $1 million deal this year. It will take more in future years to get a guy who will stay. We've gone through so many bench guys lately and it'd be nice to have a cheap option. Is Nelson that guy? Maybe or maybe not. I think he deserved more given how he was let go. Gamel has been on the bench still...the move still doesn't make sense. Hopefully the Brewers will be able to find guys for the bench spots. Again, they won't lose a ton of games because of this. Long-term though you need to extend/trade/decide on guys like Fielder, Weeks, Hardy, Hart, Yo, Parra, etc. and find bench guys. I'd rather find cheap young guys like Nelson, Nix, Sarfate, etc. to fill those back spots instead of having guys like Cat and Julio on the team. Again, I'm not saying Nelson should start everyday and I have yet to read a post that says we lost an all-star. We have now IMO added more payroll to the bench for next year. Most likely Cat and Counsell will be gone and maybe Duffy too. I just hope my point is clear. We haven't lost all-stars, but we have lost guys that could fill roles on a team. I just hope we don't spend $3 million on bench guys next year.

[Never Outhustled]

We have now IMO added more payroll to the bench for next year. Most likely Cat and Counsell will be gone and maybe Duffy too. I just hope my point is clear. We haven't lost all-stars, but we have lost guys that could fill roles on a team. I just hope we don't spend $3 million on bench guys next year.

How did we add more payroll to next years bench? We didn't even add more payroll to this years bench. We'll pay Catalanoto the same as we paid Nelson. Next years bench will include minimum salary guys like Iribarren and Gillespie. Having Gamel on the bench last night gave the Brewers a chance to win the game. Gamel and Nelson do not compare as hitters.

[JJHardy7]

How did we add more payroll to next years bench? We didn't even add more payroll to this years bench. We'll pay Catalanoto the same as we paid Nelson. Next years bench will include minimum salary guys like Iribarren and Gillespie. Having Gamel on the bench last night gave the Brewers a chance to win the game. Gamel and Nelson do not compare as hitters.

 

We don't know how next year's bench will look. We very well could go the cheap route, but losing Nelson doesn't help that. Cat could suck. The Hurricane hasn't proved anything at the MLB level either has Gillespie or Nelson for that matter. I guess I will be disappointed if we have a crappy bench next year that we pay too much for. It's not easy to find those guys for those roles IMO. I also think we need 2 reserve OFs for next year. I don't know if we'll be able to get 2 from the minors (remember the Hurricane has barely played in the OF in his career).

 

I'm not comparing Nelson and Gamel as hitters...at all. Gamel should never have been called up given the 'role' he's been given. I don't see Gamel as a bench player.

 

Again, I'm not upset just because we lost Nelson. It's how we lost him. We lost him for nothing. That doesn't mean we could've traded him. For example, if it was determined that Hall would be benched and we called up Gamel to start...that makes sense IMO. Gamel's handful of at-bats don't justify getting rid of Nelson IMO.

[JohnBriggs12]

One thing you can't do running a franchise is to get emotionally attached to players. Fans that follow the entire system naturally pick out players they like and hope to see succeed. It's laughable that some say Nelson didn't get a chance. He got 8 minor league seasons and over 3600 plate appearances. During that time, dozens of his teammates were released. Most if not all of those guys might have a better case that they didn't get a chance than Nelson has.

 

If you don't realize going into professional baseball that it's a cut throat business, you learn pretty quick. Any chance you get, you have to take advantage of. Now Nelson is back at AAA which is where he belongs. He's playing baseball for a living. We should all be so fortunate. He should enjoy it while it lasts.

[JJHardy7]

One thing you can't do running a franchise is to get emotionally attached to players. Fans that follow the entire system naturally pick out players they like and hope to see succeed. It's laughable that some say Nelson didn't get a chance. He got 8 minor league seasons and over 3600 plate appearances. During that time, dozens of his teammates were released. Most if not all of those guys might have a better case that they didn't get a chance than Nelson has.

 

If you don't realize going into professional baseball that it's a cut throat business, you learn pretty quick. Any chance you get, you have to take advantage of. Now Nelson is back at AAA which is where he belongs. He's playing baseball for a living. We should all be so fortunate. He should enjoy it while it lasts.

 

I don't think I'm being emotionally attached. I've stated that it's not the end of the world for the team. I just think it was a dumb roster move. I think losing anybody on the 25-man roster (well except Julio) for Gamel to sit on the bench would be dumb.

[Never Outhustled]

The Hurricane hasn't proved anything at the MLB level either has Gillespie or Nelson for that matter. I guess I will be disappointed if we have a crappy bench next year that we pay too much for.

The thing your missing is that by releasing Nelson, Iribarren gets an oppurtunity to prove something at the MLB level. He's a better player than Nelson, why shouldn't he get that oppurtunity? Nelson will be a minor leafue FA after this year, the Brewers could pick him up if they want, but they will likely pick up one of the several minor FAs that would profile better as an MLB bench player.